The problem I find with /d is if you build it to be brutal it feels like you can only take 1 in the list. Glaives with /d, ion, and predator sounds incredible, but that leaves 20 points to assist/mitigate weakness. Compare that to Glaives with x7 and predator and you can fit a full 30 point palp shuttle in there for two really beefy pretty hard hitting jousters.

Also free evades just feel so good and help defenders avoid blanking out like they seem to love to do.

Love /D but /X7 has always done better in terms if winning for me. And as much as I like Vessery, Ryad is my favourite Defender pilot.

I agree that having them in a multiple defender list is good. It could be good to have your enemy focus on the /d (phrasing!) an then attack with your other ships. If you run a VI Maarek with /d, you can attack first and strip a high value of some tokens (and stress, ion, or tractor them) and give them some damage (maybe). Then your x7 can slam them. It's worked for me a few times. I'm playing in an escalation tournament this weekend so we'll see how it goes.

I did play against an /d ryad with my x7 ryad last weekend. I won. The /d and an valen rudor got my ryad down to 1 hull, but she stayed alive and killed them. (we were playing 60 pt lists and I had a ryad and omega leader).

I think there's a place for /d, but they'll have to be flown carefully--not as jousters.

Juke x7s kill things just fine

Juke X7's are really the key, the Juke changes them into monsters.

Why either/or?

Why not both?

Colonel Vessery - TIE/D, Ion Cannon

Onyx Squadron Pilot - TIE/x7

Onyx Squadron Pilot - TIE/x7

2 points left. Or drop the Onyx Pilots to Deltas if you want to give everyone Twin Ion Engine Mark II and pimp the Vess a bit.

Not both because that makes it easy for the opponent to decide who to shoot. Hint: the one that's way more dangerous but far easier to kill and more expensive to boot.

I'm going to come out against the grain here and say I really don't like /x7. I've played with it some, and against it quite a bit. It doesn't scare me. If you want to pay 35 points for a basic three die primary be my guest. The ship just doesn't hurt enough for me to like it. In fact when I fight /x7 Vessery I just kill his escorts and he loses pretty much all his power. I think it works best to make 28 point Deltas.

Ryad is actually great running PtL and /D, and it allows her to use her 2-k turn.

Also I've found that the 3-5 speed requirement is a huge deal, and has made my opponents do some frankly stupid maneuvers that a /D doesn't have to worry about.

Tractor beam /D on the other hand is a fantastic force multiplier that I have had both great fun and good success in running. It gives a three ship list four attacks, or a two ship one three attacks. I've had some good success with a /D Defender running with a Decimator.

You don't have to do quick moves with a x7. All that happens when you don't is that you lose a token, sometimes that's very much an acceptable trade off.

The trick with Defenders hasn't changed with veterans: just stop being predictable! (Though not when playing me, keep k-turning all the time then, it's much easier to get shots on you )

TIE /D with Predator..

The problem I find with /d is if you build it to be brutal it feels like you can only take 1 in the list. Glaives with /d, ion, and predator sounds incredible, but that leaves 20 points to assist/mitigate weakness. Compare that to Glaives with x7 and predator and you can fit a full 30 point palp shuttle in there for two really beefy pretty hard hitting jousters.

Also free evades just feel so good and help defenders avoid blanking out like they seem to love to do.

This is my current list with 2 TIE/Ds:

Rexler Brath, Predator, TIE/D, Tractor Beam, Hull Upgrade = 44

Maarek Stele, Predator, TIE/D, Ion Cannon, Hull Upgrade = 44

Academy Pilot = 12

100 points

With a list like this, the fickleness of green dice goes both ways. You give the opponent so many opportunities to roll badly on defense. Every one of the 4 shots from the Defenders can do very bad things, so any bad defensive role is a backbreaker.

TIE/D because it's clean!

/X7 because MC Hammer.

they both have their uses.

x7 is generally more uniform and can be slapped on any defender in any list and is a good build.

xD on the other hand is usually pricy enough where you cant just sneak one in. xD defenders typically need to be your ace in the hole for your list as they will easily hog ~40pts and depending on what you are doing hog even MORE points because theres a support ship helping them out (xD Vessery needs at least a 14pt Academy with Targeting Computer mod to be truely dangerous)

xD can really be a problem though if built right. Usually when i see an xD title its just annoying because the Tractorbeam tends to soak my tokens (i am NOT letting you broll me onto a rock ya finkrat!). Sometimes i'll see someone build one proper and the xD seriously turns into the biggest threat on the table....and its not paired with shmucks either lol ive seen it paired with a phantom and i oddly wanted that defender dead more than the phantom lol.

While I am a x7 man myself, Tie/D's with the right player and loadout can melt so much, even x7's. A few practice games with a friend of mine has taught me to respect and fear Tie/D's.

the "D" stands for "Don't"

reason being: my name

Would everyone's opinion change if it could field a Mangler or HLC and dual attack?

Either of those in a TIE/D would be pretty broken.

Other than straight up cost issues, what keeps you from putting either of them on a Tie/D?

They don't work with the title because of their point cost.

They don't work with the title because of their point cost.

Oh yea, I forgot about that part of the title statement. You can equip the things but you can't use them for second attack so it would be a waste to have them and title.

gotta love giving some TB with the D

so my opponent has to go on a token spree

then nuke that ship with ordinance for free

the "D" stands for "Don't"

reason being: my name

Would everyone's opinion change if it could field a Mangler or HLC and dual attack?

Either of those in a TIE/D would be pretty broken.

Other than straight up cost issues, what keeps you from putting either of them on a Tie/D?

tie/D limits the cost to 3. mangler and HLC are 4/7 respectively.

I like /D myself used correctly you can devastate most things early on, x7 is better for tournament games as it ensures a bad dice roll won't doom you but as I play casual losing to dice isn't as big a deal.

I really like Tie/D with Vessery and Ion Cannon. I throw in Inquistor and Omega Leader in the list as well, so Vessery has the TL's to use his ability off of (and with VI on Vess, they're all PS8). If Vess lands an ion shot, he can K-turn behind them and keep hammering away.

I'm going to come out against the grain here and say I really don't like /x7. I've played with it some, and against it quite a bit. It doesn't scare me. If you want to pay 35 points for a basic three die primary be my guest. The ship just doesn't hurt enough for me to like it. In fact when I fight /x7 Vessery I just kill his escorts and he loses pretty much all his power. I think it works best to make 28 point Deltas.

Ryad is actually great running PtL and /D, and it allows her to use her 2-k turn.

Also I've found that the 3-5 speed requirement is a huge deal, and has made my opponents do some frankly stupid maneuvers that a /D doesn't have to worry about.

Tractor beam /D on the other hand is a fantastic force multiplier that I have had both great fun and good success in running. It gives a three ship list four attacks, or a two ship one three attacks. I've had some good success with a /D Defender running with a Decimator.

If youre using x7 with a "basic" 3 dice attack youre doing it wrong. I run vessery and ptl ryad. Ruad gets

Fovus/tl from ptl and evade from title. Vessery gets a target lock from ryads. You wanna kill verssery's escorts first? Great, have fun killing ryad with her fovus/evade. Ill take a focus/target locked attack over an extra attack with them being less modified. The Other commmon thing is juke glaives.

And ryad can use her 2k just fine with x7. Ive found doing a 2k or 1-2 speed straights or banks, even turns sometimes, is a great way to catch opponents off guard because they never expect it.

The problem I find with /d is if you build it to be brutal it feels like you can only take 1 in the list. Glaives with /d, ion, and predator sounds incredible, but that leaves 20 points to assist/mitigate weakness. Compare that to Glaives with x7 and predator and you can fit a full 30 point palp shuttle in there for two really beefy pretty hard hitting jousters.

Also free evades just feel so good and help defenders avoid blanking out like they seem to love to do.

This is my current list with 2 TIE/Ds:

Rexler Brath, Predator, TIE/D, Tractor Beam, Hull Upgrade = 44

Maarek Stele, Predator, TIE/D, Ion Cannon, Hull Upgrade = 44

Academy Pilot = 12

100 points

With a list like this, the fickleness of green dice goes both ways. You give the opponent so many opportunities to roll badly on defense. Every one of the 4 shots from the Defenders can do very bad things, so any bad defensive role is a backbreaker.

Yeah, I suppose you can just own not having a lot of points left and just fill with an academy, just the all offense all the time approach is scary.

With having both in a list while it makes things "easier" to establish a target priority Say shooting at a TIE/D Vessery over an X7 Glaive you are forcing your opponent into the unenviable postiton of leaving an X7 glaive up for the end game, 1 free evade token + 3 evade dice is is good with 3 ships on the the board shooting at you, it's great if only 2 ships are shooting at you and it is freaking incredible with only one ship shooting at you.

So by "forcing" your opponent to shoot at your TIE/D you actually hurt him more in the end game, sort of like the old Fat Han conundrum, do you shoot the escorts which are easier to kill or do you try to burn down Han before you don't have the firepower to damage him anymore

lot of people slap Tractors on there for a cheap pre-attack to hopefully either cut agi or burn tokens, or the ion for an extra bip of damage and potential easy-chasing.

However another good one is the Fletchette cannon, something largely forgotten about. Unlike the torpedo, it doesnt have a hull restriction for its stress, but it has to hit.

The first time i faced xD's i faced two of them with that gun and OMG THAT IS SO ANNOYING lol

X7 is hands down the better choice. Cheaper cost and increased survivability. What else do you need?