Commander Costs

By TheRealStarkiller, in Star Wars: Armada Fleet Builds

Just a little rap-up about my pov on commanders costs:

Grand Moff Tarkin (38) - should be 32 points. Its just too difficult if not impossible to get the max effect out of him - no matter how your list look like.
Darth Vader (36) - should be 28 points. Vader is a tragic figure. there are too many, cheaper means of modifying dice.
Admiral Screed (26) - ok. My favourite one. Worth every single point.
General Tagge (25) - never played with him / seems reasonable
Admiral Motti (24) - ok. My second choice. Very solid one.
Admiral Konstantine (23) - never played with him / seems reasonable
Moff Jerjerrod (23) - never played with him / seems reasonable
Admiral Ozzel (20) - should be 16 points. His main feat is his low costs. Useful in corner cases only.

...

So far I havn't played with rebels - so I don't have an opinion as a player, but maybe as an opponent:

Admiral Ackbar (38) - ok. The only one in this game that is worth at least 38 points.
Mon Mothma (30) - should be 26 points. I feel she is seldom worth it. Maybe my opponents need more practice with her.

General Rieekan (30) - never played him / seems reasonable
General Madine (30) - never played him / seems reasonable
General Cracken (26) - never played him / seems reasonable
Garm Bel Iblis (25) - should be 24 points. Tarkin for the cheap is quite ok.
General Dodonna (20) - should be 16 points. His main feat is his low costs. Played him a few times. His ability triggered not once.

Ackbar is the winner.

Tarkin and Vader are the biggest losers.

EDIT: Oops wrong sub-forum :/

Edited by TheRealStarkiller

Mothma in the right list is worth every bit of her 30 points.

I suggest trying more commanders before evaluating them.

I never played Tarkin, but he does look underwhelming for the cost...

I played Tarkin a few times and you can be very effective with him.

Ozzel is pure madness with the right fleet and tactics in the high activation fast mobility based fleets I play I would happy play 25 points........

I suggest trying more commanders before evaluating them.

Applause!

And you are completely fine with them?

Ozzel is great with a fleet built for him.

Example: I fly my Demolisher with Wulf Yularen and Engine Techs. Multiple games I've slowed him down from speed 3 to speed 0 for tactical reasons (using maneuver command and token). Maneuver token is preserved by Wulf. Next turn, maneuver command plus token plus Ozzel to increase speed back up to 3. And Engine Techs to make it a full 4!

I suggest trying more commanders before evaluating them.

Applause!

And you are completely fine with them?

Just pointing out that you've taken it upon yourself to evaluate the cost of all commanders, despite having flown only a few.

Rest my case.

I suggest trying more commanders before evaluating them.

Applause!

And you are completely fine with them?

Just pointing out that you've taken it upon yourself to evaluate the cost of all commanders, despite having flown only a few.

Rest my case.

Thats what I have stated.

And your point is that I have to test ALL of them to dare to evaluate those which I have played?

It would have been more constructive if you had just shared your perspective about the point costs of the commanders, based on your game experiences.

I agree that Tarkin is too expensive. I think he should be 36 as well.

Vader's price is acceptable, though. It allows me to build my ships without worrying about alternate means of re-rolling dice.

Motti is a bit too cheap. His power is awesome.

Akbar is good. I'd pay 40 for this.

Mothma is also good. Flying MC30s and Corvettes with Mothma is very frustrating for the enemy.

Dodonna is good. Build a fleet around crit fishing (bombers do this well) and watch the carnage.

I agree that Tarkin is too expensive. I think he should be 36 as well.

Vader's price is acceptable, though. It allows me to build my ships without worrying about alternate means of re-rolling dice.

Motti is a bit too cheap. His power is awesome.

Akbar is good. I'd pay 40 for this.

Mothma is also good. Flying MC30s and Corvettes with Mothma is very frustrating for the enemy.

Dodonna is good. Build a fleet around crit fishing (bombers do this well) and watch the carnage.

if you play with 0 squadrons, so with all ships, all of them could be awesome.

Vader is good when you have a lot of red and black dice and less or no blue dice. This means ISD I and VSD I and the GSD. But in the moment you want to use the black dice for special crit effects, Sreed overrides Vader and Screed is so much more affordable. Leaving the ISD I for Vader, since you have black dice but you can't equip missile upgrades AND they have the Contain token to spent for attacks. So if you choose Vader, you should have 2 ISD I equipped with Gunners in your list. I found that Vader is less effective if you upgrade them to ISD II. And this is rather limiting. If Vader would be less points, you could take him also in smaller fleets without loss of efficiency.

Tarkin is great in my Flight Deck build, he is a must take when I am setting up my flight decks. I would be ecstatic if his point cost was lower... more bombers I could add in

Vader + Ord experts on a VSD I and Glads is just down right deadly.. I would not be upset if his cost was lower but on the right build he is devastating.. Vader is always part of my 4 Glad build.. Fishing for crits anyone?


You're right, your opponents need more practice with Mon Mothma.

I'm reluctant to call out exact cost reductions because so much is dependent upon what the skilled players in your area prefer. You mention Dodonna's ability only triggered once in a game you played, but that's probably just a selectivity bias. A well built Dodonna list is absolutely scary to play against because a few crits can ruin your day. 20 points feels about right.

I looked at commanders awhile back in terms of what the general benefits offer in terms of damage increase or mitigation. Unfortunately, the analysis gets harder than straight-forward numbers. If Mothma allows one of my ships to generate another activation before being destroyed, that's a pretty significant improvement in ability that the one or two damage that she saved don't quite capture. On the whole, I think they're all costed within a fair margin-of-error of two points.

Now what I think is fair is to talk about them in terms of user-friendliness. So Motti is fairly user-friendly and fairly intuitive. Tarkin is very hard. If we look at a Veteran Captain as 3 points for a token, then I think its fair to say you can build a Tarkin fleet that will generate more than 13 tokens and justify his cost. The real problem is making sure that those tokens are ALWAYS beneficial and you're left with some difficulty in that not all of your ships may benefit from the same token set on a turn. I notice that you're alright with Garm as Tarkin-light, but I wonder if that's more of a problem with the anxiety I experience as a player with more expensive commanders. Some of it is also play-style. I don't think we've quite seen the fleets that will make the most of Garm or Tarkin.

I'm reluctant to call out exact cost reductions because so much is dependent upon what the skilled players in your area prefer. You mention Dodonna's ability only triggered once in a game you played, but that's probably just a selectivity bias. A well built Dodonna list is absolutely scary to play against because a few crits can ruin your day. 20 points feels about right.

I would agree. I would also point out that the fleet you build can really decide which admiral you should take. A Rebel fleet that's designed to go toe to toe with other fleets and contains plenty of unique squadrons would probably want to take General Rieekan for example. On the other hand a fleet full of small, fast, maneuverable ships would be looking at admirals like Mon Mothma or General Cracken instead. I don't really see the 'cost' of the various admirals as being an issue as the ability that they're bringing to your list should be well worth the points that you have to pay for them.