I'm thinking of running a "Grinder" type of game with X-Wing. For anyone not familiar, a Grinder is where you have a set number of units that go up in strength. When one is destroyed, you move up to your bigger unit. When all your units are destroyed, you're out. Last man standing wins. I've played it numerous times using Battletech and Battletech Alpha Strike, and I can't see why it would work here in X-Wing.

It would also be a great way to introduce new or semi-new players to the game. The first level of ships would have no pilot abilities or fancy cards, just simple move-action-attack dynamics to teach them the value of maneuver. After that, each successive wave adds more and more complexity. I'd create custom sheets for each ship that explain the ships capabilities, what the different actions are, and the turn sequence. Players would have a stapled packet of 4 and just flip to the next one when their ship got destroyed. Simple and doesn't overload new players.

My thoughts are to have the "classes" of ships be: 15pts, 25pts, 35pts, and 45pts, with a one point cushion either way that must be evened out. In this context, what do you think of these lists.

Rebel #1 - Dogfighters

• Prototype Pilot [A-Wing] w/ Chardaan Refit (15pts)
• Gold Squadron Pilot [Y-Wing] w/ BTL-A4, R2 Astromech, & Ion Cannon Turret (24pts)
• Wedge [X-Wing] w/ R2-D2 & Predator (36pts)
• Poe PS9 [T-70] w/ BB-8, PtL, Autothrusters, and Ion Torps (45pts)

Rebel #2 - Heavies

• Tala Squadron Pilot [Z-95] w/ Vectored Thrusters (15pts)
• Blue Squadron Pilot [b-Wing] w/ Ion Cannon (25pts)
• Miranda Doni [K-Wing] w/ Autoblaster Turret, Ion Pulse Missiles, and Long Range Scanner (34pts)
• Lothal Rebel [VCX-100] w/ FCS, Plasma Torpedoes, Extra Munitions, Hera, Chopper, and Hull Upgrade (46pts)

Imperial #1 - Veterans

• Black Squadron Pilot [Tie Fighter](14pts)
• Tomax Bren [Tie Bomber] w/ Crackshot (25pts) OR Gamma Squad Veteran w/ Plasma Torpedoes, Advanced Homing Missiles, and Guidance Chips (25pts)
• Countess Ryad [Tie Defender] w/ x7, Twin Ion Engine Mk 2, and Push the Limit (36pts)
• Col Vessery [Tie Defender] w/ Tie/D, Ion Cannon, Push the Limit, and Engine Upgrade (45pts)

Imperial #2 - Aces

• Epsilon Squadron Pilot [Tie/FO] (15pts)
• The Inquisitor [TAP] w/ TIE/v1 (26pts)
• Soontir Fel [Tie Interceptor] w/ Push the Limit, Autothrusters, Stealth Device, and Royal Guard Tie
• Whisper [Tie Phantom] w/ Push the Limit, Recon Specialist, Fire Control System, and Advanced Cloaking Device

Feedback on the lists or the format is very much welcome!

Huh, never heard of this format before, but it sounds really cool! It seems like it would work if they were balanced against each other

Clearly, the problem with this format as presented is the lack of Scum lists!

Scum #1 - Bounty Hunters

• Binayre Pirate (15) - Z-95 Headhunter w/ Black Market Slicer Tools, Vectored Thrusters

• Gand Findsman (25) - G-1A Starfighter w/ Adaptability

• Trandoshan Slaver (34) - YV-666 w/ 4-LOM, Zuckuss, Dengar

• Boba Fett (46) - Firespray-31 w/ Fearlessness, Tail Gunner, Engine Upgrade

"Let's play Grinder!"

Nope, can't see that getting misconstrued in any way, shape or form...

Wouldn't the best 25-point ship -always- be a (26-point) Omega Leader...? : )

About the only ship I could see challenging OL at the 25-point level is a Chardaan/VI/PtL Jake.

Otherwise, interesting idea...

I prefer to keep my Xwing nights and my Grindr nights seperate.

/obvious joke about grindr

Here's some squads I whipped up, concentrated on synergetic effects and no large ships (not sure if you want to dive into the ship base change during a match for beginners? Maybe some of the pilots that are stuffed with upgrades are already too complex for beginners, don't know.

Rebels

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)
Advanced Homing Missiles (3)
Guidance Chips (0)

Tarn Mison (23)
R7 Astromech (2)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Keyan Farlander (29)
Push the Limit (3)
Advanced Sensors (3)

Corran Horn (35)
Push the Limit (3)
Advanced Sensors (3)
R2-D2 (4)

Imperials

Arc dodgers

Black Squadron Pilot (14)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

Baron of the Empire (19)
Push the Limit (3)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
TIE/v1 (1)

Soontir Fel (27)
Push the Limit (3)
Stealth Device (3)
Autothrusters (2)
Royal Guard TIE (0)

"Whisper" (32)
Predator (3)
Fire-Control System (2)
Recon Specialist (3)
Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

(You don't want PTL on Whisper unless Advanced Sensors so you can destress before you get the free cloak action after attack).

Bombers

Black Squadron Pilot (14)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

Tempest Squadron Pilot (21)
Proton Rockets (3)
Advanced Targeting Computer (1)
TIE/x1 (0)

Tomax Bren (24)
Crack Shot (1)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)
Extra Munitions (2)
Homing Missiles (5)
Guidance Chips (0)

"Redline" (27)
Sensor Jammer (4)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)
Extra Munitions (2)
Homing Missiles (5)
Ion Bombs (2)
Seismic Charges (2)
Guidance Chips (0)

Dunno... Jousters? But not sure if it fits

Black Squadron Pilot (14)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

"Omega Leader" (21)
Juke (2)
Comm Relay (3)

Juno Eclipse (28)
Lone Wolf (2)
Advanced Targeting Computer (1)
Engine Upgrade (4)
TIE/x1 (0)

Rexler Brath (37)
Marksmanship (3)
Ion Cannon (3)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
TIE/D (0)

Scum

Binayre Pirate (12)
Advanced Homing Missiles (3)
Guidance Chips (0)

Cartel Marauder (20)
Glitterstim (2)
Vectored Thrusters (2)

4-LOM (27)
Cool Hand (1)
Zuckuss (1)
Fire-Control System (2)
Black Market Slicer Tools (1)
Tractor Beam (1)
Experimental Interface (3)
Mist Hunter (0)

Guri (30)
Lone Wolf (2)
Proton Torpedoes (4)
Sensor Jammer (4)
Glitterstim (2)
Autothrusters (2)
Virago (1)

I'd recommend getting the app to help you play.

OK.....I like the idea, but I'm just kind of curious. So.....you would play with multiple people? Each one gets one ship? How many people do you play with usually at one time? You always get one ship? I really like the idea, actually. It seems kind of neat.

If you had some more experienced players, could you play with more than 1 ship at a time? So....maybe double each ship in the wave? If you start with, say, 2 x Prototype A-wings. When one dies, you get the next upgrade. Keep playing until there is only one player standing. Maybe better if there are fewer people. Maybe even let you mix 2 types of list types of the same faction? So, one Dogfighter and one Heavy?

This does seem pretty cool. I like it.

As a person who has run Grinder for many years at GenCon, it's really designed as a learning game that's fun and rewarding players. In this game we give you a 'mech. If you break it, we will give you a bigger 'mech. It encourages people to get in there and play a little more aggressively so they can learn all the systems. The winner was simply the person with the most kills at the end of the (day/weekend???) and there was no elimination. If you lose the top tier, you start again at the bottom.

Works beautifully here too. Roster balancing is very tricky at the start but if you're willing to work with it you can come up with something.

OK.....I like the idea, but I'm just kind of curious. So.....you would play with multiple people? Each one gets one ship? How many people do you play with usually at one time? You always get one ship? I really like the idea, actually. It seems kind of neat.

If you had some more experienced players, could you play with more than 1 ship at a time? So....maybe double each ship in the wave? If you start with, say, 2 x Prototype A-wings. When one dies, you get the next upgrade. Keep playing until there is only one player standing. Maybe better if there are fewer people. Maybe even let you mix 2 types of list types of the same faction? So, one Dogfighter and one Heavy?

This does seem pretty cool. I like it.

In can play with lots of people. Each person gets one ship. I'd cap it at 8 for X-Wing to start. I've played more with Battletech Grinder but the turns get slow much beyond that - X-Wing may prove more efficient. You ALWAYS get one ship.

More experienced players played by the same rules as the newer people. The game slot of Grinder was always time based, nobody was ever eliminated from play. The goal is fun. There's that competitive element to it but most people show up just to play and blow stuff up.

I played a couple 3 person free-for-all furballs with friends with a similar set-up. The major difference was we did not have pre-determined ships for the next point level, and we tracked kill points.

I like the way this one dictates your entire "squad" as that was the biggest slow down for us. The only other question I have is regarding Vessery by himself. Any reason to not go with Maarek since Vessery won't have TL's helping him?

Change Vessery to something else. Vessery is just an overcosted Glaive Squadron Pilot in this list. His pilot ability is useless without other ships.

Thanks for the clarification! I am out of LIKES, or else I would LIKE your comments

Thanks for all the feedback guys! Yeah the idea would generally be to have one ship per player at all times, to keep things simple. It really helps new players learn the rules and feel like "this ship is mine". If you want to start adding in support combos, you could have players from the same faction team up (if you have enough players to make even sides).

If you wanted to do this for two experienced players and wanted multiple ships each, you could create 3 tiers of two ship mini lists, and have them only move up when both ships are destroyed. Just spit-balling, but I'd make the point cut offs 30 (enough for 2 A-Wings, Hawk + Z, or two Ties of many flavors), 55 (2 of the 25 point ships slightly more tricked out), and 75 (same but with 35 point ships).

Wouldn't the best 25-point ship -always- be a (26-point) Omega Leader...? : )

About the only ship I could see challenging OL at the 25-point level is a Chardaan/VI/PtL Jake.

Otherwise, interesting idea...

Well the idea here isn't to have the absolute best ships in each class, but rather a nice mix of ships so players can play as or against a wide variety of things. Since I'm building the lists ahead of time, not the players, all I have to do is make the lists fairly balanced against each other. Avoiding OL would be one of those things I'd do for balance.

Change Vessery to something else. Vessery is just an overcosted Glaive Squadron Pilot in this list. His pilot ability is useless without other ships.

Yeah agreed. I play Vess all the time so I wasn't really thinking straight when I picked him for this.

Variant for any who are interested:

Each series of ships is limited to 1 or 2 named pilots.

Here's another variant for two players, based on the standard dogfight rules:

Each player builds a squad in three waves; first wave up to 20 points, second wave up to 30 points, third wave up to 50 points.

Players place only their first wave ship at the start of the match.

At the end of each round, if all of the ships of your current wave have been destroyed, you must place all of the ships of your next wave in your starting zone.

Your whisper is strangely equipped...

But other wise I really want to try this out it seems fun!

Your whisper is strangely equipped...

But other wise I really want to try this out it seems fun!

In fairness, a grinder isn't about putting the optimum unit on the board. You don't want to create a lopsided situation at the same level. Whisper easily can create such a scenario at her optimum build so that it's just gross to fly against...

A thought occurs... how do you deal with initiative in an event like this? Only just thought about there being two different Whisper pilots and one totally getting the advantage every turn...

This seems awesome.

I always love looking at squad builds for new player pickup games.

Love to hear experiences from anyone who's tried this.