I remember a line in the manual that says the Overlord can never force the Heroes to use their fatigue, even through effect like Dark Charm...but we cant find that rules again so maybe we are thinking about Descent 1...

the issue comes out yesterday night when the OL plays the necromancer card :Treacherous Shadows. the text is the follow

""Play this card at the start of your turn. Each hero tests [WILLPOWER] . For each hero who fails, you may perform an attack with that hero as if he were one of your monsters. You can force him to attack himself.""

our Skirmisher failed the test, and one of his weapon state: " After you roll attack dice, you may suffer 1 [Fatigue] to reroll 1 power die."

So the OL want to use that perk to make a reroll.....can he or cannot?

Heroes that failed are treaten as monsters, and monsters do not have Fatigue....but the OL uses a card that does not state the opposite (instead Dark Charms state it clearly enogh!)

how does it work?

I believe there have been some official and conflicting ruling via replies to questions but see nothing in the FAQ. What we worked out was the OL may use the heroes base speed and anything on the weapon. So in my mind if what you said is on the weapon go for it but I see room to argue. In general, the OL cannot make a hero suffer fatigue with dark charm and similar affects.

Dark Charm is a free Basic card, whereas Trecherous Shadows is a 3xp Shadowmancer card. I believe the wording of "as if he were one of your monsters" (similar to the 3xp Infector card, Dark Host) is intentional in that it gives you full control of the actions, as well as being able to apply an array of Overlord cards (because the Hero is now a monster).

So I might be completely wrong on this, but I can't interpret it any other way than yes, he can force you to spend fatigue if it's part of the actions. He can't force you to spend fatigue to move, because that's not an action Monsters can take, but if a weapon can be used to get extra dice by suffering fatigue, I don't see why he wouldn't be able to make use of that. Also, normally, monsters can suffer Fatigue, but because they do not have Stamina, they take it as Damage instead.

wooo wooo! stop right there!

Monster can do what? where is state that monsters can suffer damage to get extra movment=? thats totally new to me!

wooo wooo! stop right there!

Monster can do what? where is state that monsters can suffer damage to get extra movment=? thats totally new to me!

They can't. They absolutely can't.

BTW there is a long section on dark charm here on BGGS if you want to read it. Rather confusing if you ask me.

https://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Descent_Second_Edition_Unofficial_FAQ#toc77

BTW there is a long section on dark charm here on BGGS if you want to read it. Rather confusing if you ask me.

As always

They can't. They absolutely can't.

ok, but you just state:

Also, normally, monsters can suffer Fatigue, but because they do not have Stamina, they take it as Damage instead.

so i panic for a sec

BTW there is a long section on dark charm here on BGGS if you want to read it. Rather confusing if you ask me.

https://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Descent_Second_Edition_Unofficial_FAQ#toc77

Immediately, I'm a big "What?" when I look at that. The very first sentence states that "Dark Charm and Dark Host have identical mechanics" , but none of the links cited actually supports that. Both Dark Host and Treacherous Shadows are worded very differently to Dark Charm.

ok, but you just state:

Also, normally, monsters

can suffer Fatigue, but because they do not have Stamina, they take it as Damage instead.

so i panic for a sec

Yes, but that has nothing to do with them spending fatigue to move. They can take fatigue, in that they take damage instead, but I also said that "He can't force you to spend fatigue to move, because that's not an action Monsters can take".

ah ok so you were talking about two different subject. Heroes considered as monsters and monsters right?

S

I need to find the topic/answer, but I thought the same restrictions applying to dark charm applied to treacherous shadows- i could be misremembering.

ah ok so you were talking about two different subject.

Heroes considered as monsters and monsters right?

S

I was merely clarifying that the Overlord can't make you take fatigue to give you extra movement points, because monsters (and thus not heroes being controlled as if they were monsters) can't actually spend fatigue to get extra movement points.

Monsters can, however, take fatigue - it's just that whenever they take fatigue, they take damage instead, because they do not have any fatigue (or stamina).

I need to find the topic/answer, but I thought the same restrictions applying to dark charm applied to treacherous shadows- i could be misremembering.

Odd that they'd word Dark Host and Trecherous Shadows so differently to Dark Charm, if all the restrictions placed on Dark Charm were supposed to apply anyway. That'd be a pretty big oversight.

Found it. The FFG replies start rolling in at post 7, The really relevant (to your question) FFG responses are in posts 13 and 15.

Found it. The FFG replies start rolling in at post 7, The really relevant (to your question) FFG responses are in posts 13 and 15.

Man, that's just plain weird .

Found it. The FFG replies start rolling in at post 7, The really relevant (to your question) FFG responses are in posts 13 and 15.

thanks dude i'm gonna check right now!

Monsters can, however, take fatigue - it's just that whenever they take fatigue, they take damage instead, because they do not have any fatigue (or stamina).

ok i get that, but where is written? i could i miss such an important rule? (shame on me)

ok i get that, but where is written? i could i miss such an important rule? (shame on me)

" Fatigue and Stamina ", pg. 13, third paragraph:

"Since monsters do not have a Stamina value, if a monster suffers any amount of fatigue, it suffers that amount of damage instead."

And don't worry about missing it - even though I hadn't missed it, I forgot about it and managed to lose a Quest due to it (as the Overlord), since I Diseased an NPC, but then concluded that nothing happens because the NPC does not have Fatigue or Stamina anyway. Boooy did that make me feel stupid later. The quest ended with the NPC at 1 Health. I could have sneezed at it and won. Or, rather, had it sneezed, it would've died.

i noticed now, but can monster voluntary suffer fatigue? the rule just says "in case" they will suffer damage instead, but it dosent talk about voluntary getting fatigue.

can you help me about this (we are NOW playng and the OL is getting restless about it XD )

i noticed now, but can monster voluntary suffer fatigue? the rule just says "in case" they will suffer damage instead, but it dosent talk about voluntary getting fatigue.

can you help me about this (we are NOW playng and the OL is getting restless about it XD )

Unless the OL somehow has a card or ability that says a monster can suffer fatigue for some effect, then no. Since fatigue is not a mechanic monsters normally worry about, I'd say the rule is more of a catch all for just in case.

Correct- only heroes (not things treated like heroes) can voluntarily suffer fatigue to gain MP. There is also a general rule (rulebook) that no figure may voluntarily suffer fatigue if doing so causes it to suffer a wound instead (Jain cannot choose to suffer 12 fatigue to gain 12 MP, because her stamina is only 5.)

Monsters can never willingly suffer fatigue. If they suffer it because of another game effect, they suffer a wound instead (as does anything suffering fatigue in excess of stamina).

It's mostly for when they get diseased or something else that would force them to take fatigue. In the event of a monster getting diseased they will always suffer damage rather than fatigue, so it functions exactly like poison.

Ok, the manual trick me for a sec

BTW there is a long section on dark charm here on BGGS if you want to read it. Rather confusing if you ask me.

https://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Descent_Second_Edition_Unofficial_FAQ#toc77

Immediately, I'm a big "What?" when I look at that. The very first sentence states that "Dark Charm and Dark Host have identical mechanics" , but none of the links cited actually supports that. Both Dark Host and Treacherous Shadows are worded very differently to Dark Charm.

Hey Luckman and others,

I recently wrote that paragraph ón Dark Charm on this unofficial FAQ page. What did confuse you? Can you suggest how to make it better?