We cannot change what is so what can we do or better yet what do you think FFG needs to do to balance things. I'm quite happy with the game so far. I think they have over complicated things past the Attacker attacks and the defender defends. But I still am happy with the game so far

edit #2: how much would this suck for players who bought Palp separately though...

They had a good run.

They errated Tactician and I went out of my way to acquire 8 of those for a certain build.

They handed out C-3PO promos like candy.

FFG shouldn't hold the game back for people that paid $30 for a single upgrade card on the secondary market. And people that bought an entire Raider just for Palpatine get to use Tarkin instead, they won't be screwed.

While I could be wrong, I don't see the Tactician errata as radical a change as what would is suggested for Palp and Tarkin. I only fought one list that had more than one Tactician on it before the errata. Those who are into the game enough to think about double stressing people with two Tacticians on a ship most likely have seen or heard of the errata. (I'll be willing to concede this point on grounds of testimony of people who were disqualified for trying to bring two Tacticians on one ship and they didn't know about the errata.)

As for C-3P0, that was a tournament prize (admittedly more of a participation prize, but a prize none the less). Not everyone who was playing at the time had a chance to get one and new players have got to rely on a resell or buying the original card.

Even if FFG released new versions of Tarkin and Palp for free, you'd have to be in the right place to get it, which again brings up those who can't get to the right tournament and new players.

I'll agree on the resale market, because FFG would prefer to get more money. And you are right, people who bought the Raider can just switch out Tarkin for Palp. But, that still relies on people knowing about it. If some new player buys the Raider, gets hyped to play Palp on something and takes a Palp list to a tournament without knowing the card had been changed, he/she will get disqualified from a game by no fault of his/her own. As a game developer, FFG has to try to keep that down to a minimum, or they'll lose a lot of new customers.

And you are right, people who bought the Raider can just switch out Tarkin for Palp. But, that still relies on people knowing about it. If some new player buys the Raider, gets hyped to play Palp on something and takes a Palp list to a tournament without knowing the card had been changed, he/she will get disqualified from a game by no fault of his/her own. As a game developer, FFG has to try to keep that down to a minimum, or they'll lose a lot of new customers.

Even if I doubt FFG will ever 'swap' Tarkin for Palpatine, even if just because Tarkin isn't good enough to sell Raiders on his own, the game has moved beyond the point you can show up to a tournament without knowledge of the FAQ. Apart from tactician nothing else will get you an illegal list, but there's several cards that play completely different according to FAQ.

Also, FFG doesn't seem to have much issue with people buying stuff based on false expectations. See all the ppl preordering the k-wing based on the 'SLAM and bomb' article and FFG going 'lol nope' after launch. Possibly same thing will happen with Quickdraw, although I hope not.

It's such a great idea, this fixes everything.

I've noticed all your 'great ideas' seem to be trying to nerf builds you struggle to play against. You could just learn to adapt you know...

RoV

And you are right, people who bought the Raider can just switch out Tarkin for Palp. But, that still relies on people knowing about it. If some new player buys the Raider, gets hyped to play Palp on something and takes a Palp list to a tournament without knowing the card had been changed, he/she will get disqualified from a game by no fault of his/her own. As a game developer, FFG has to try to keep that down to a minimum, or they'll lose a lot of new customers.

Even if I doubt FFG will ever 'swap' Tarkin for Palpatine, even if just because Tarkin isn't good enough to sell Raiders on his own, the game has moved beyond the point you can show up to a tournament without knowledge of the FAQ. Apart from tactician nothing else will get you an illegal list, but there's several cards that play completely different according to FAQ.

Also, FFG doesn't seem to have much issue with people buying stuff based on false expectations. See all the ppl preordering the k-wing based on the 'SLAM and bomb' article and FFG going 'lol nope' after launch. Possibly same thing will happen with Quickdraw, although I hope not.

You are right. If you are gonna compete in a tournament, you should double check the official rules. Should. That doesn't mean everyone will. Heck, one tournament I went to, two guys came in with the starting packs they just bought, slapped together what they had and went at it. Almost every tournament I've been to, someone has said something along the lines of "you know you can't do that?" or "you realize you can do this, right?". Most people are impatient, lazy, and didn't feel like slogging pages of FAQ's to see if something they are flying just so happens to be reworked.

And there is a difference between between false advertising and changing something that's been in the player's hands for a while. Both are deplorable and should not be encouraged. But false advertising can be more readily identified and has little to no effect on people who have no idea there was false information to begin with.

And there is a difference between between false advertising and changing something that's been in the player's hands for a while. Both are deplorable and should not be encouraged. But false advertising can be more readily identified and has little to no effect on people who have no idea there was false information to begin with.

FFG has done both. For example people bought Most Wanted packs to run U-boats with R4 Agromechs and then FFG did an 180 on a rule that had bern in the FAQ since forever rendering the purchase largely moot.

And you are right, people who bought the Raider can just switch out Tarkin for Palp. But, that still relies on people knowing about it. If some new player buys the Raider, gets hyped to play Palp on something and takes a Palp list to a tournament without knowing the card had been changed, he/she will get disqualified from a game by no fault of his/her own. As a game developer, FFG has to try to keep that down to a minimum, or they'll lose a lot of new customers.

Even if I doubt FFG will ever 'swap' Tarkin for Palpatine, even if just because Tarkin isn't good enough to sell Raiders on his own, the game has moved beyond the point you can show up to a tournament without knowledge of the FAQ. Apart from tactician nothing else will get you an illegal list, but there's several cards that play completely different according to FAQ.

Also, FFG doesn't seem to have much issue with people buying stuff based on false expectations. See all the ppl preordering the k-wing based on the 'SLAM and bomb' article and FFG going 'lol nope' after launch. Possibly same thing will happen with Quickdraw, although I hope not.

You are right. If you are gonna compete in a tournament, you should double check the official rules. Should. That doesn't mean everyone will. Heck, one tournament I went to, two guys came in with the starting packs they just bought, slapped together what they had and went at it. Almost every tournament I've been to, someone has said something along the lines of "you know you can't do that?" or "you realize you can do this, right?". Most people are impatient, lazy, and didn't feel like slogging pages of FAQ's to see if something they are flying just so happens to be reworked.

And there is a difference between between false advertising and changing something that's been in the player's hands for a while. Both are deplorable and should not be encouraged. But false advertising can be more readily identified and has little to no effect on people who have no idea there was false information to begin with.

+1 for errataing Tarkin in.

Not sure about errating Palpatine out: I'd rather see if BMST works first, and then maybe try errating him to only affect reds.

I had one guy trying to use opportunist on youngster in a tournament. When he tried to use opportunist on a friendly tie with youngster ability I told him he couldn't. He said he could and it was in ffg article. This was game 3 of the event, and i was facing him on a top table, which means his previous two opponents must not have caught on. It sucks having to be that guy, but as I told him ffg articles have been wrong in the past (but looking back I think he had expose mixed up with opportunist)

Clearly he can't read. I'm surprised nobody else stopped him earlier.

The article also was Expose.

yeah the articles are notoriously fishy *cough ptl conner net cough*

If youngster could pass any EPT to nearby ships oh holy balls he would be broken. Crackshot wouldnt work because he says they may "use" his ept, meaning still 1 use across the board, but things like PTL, Outmaneuver, or Predator would be insane in a tie swarm.

And there is a difference between between false advertising and changing something that's been in the player's hands for a while. Both are deplorable and should not be encouraged. But false advertising can be more readily identified and has little to no effect on people who have no idea there was false information to begin with.

FFG has done both. For example people bought Most Wanted packs to run U-boats with R4 Agromechs and then FFG did an 180 on a rule that had bern in the FAQ since forever rendering the purchase largely moot.

First: What happened with the agromech didn't change anything on the card. It was a rules modification or clarification. If someone showed up with U-Boats and agromechs, they'd still be able to play, though a portion of their list wouldn't work as expected. That's my whole point. Most things changed just alters timing or how some cards interact with each other. If you find out a combo doesn't work like you thought because of an FAQ, well that sucks, but you're still in the game. You still have a chance. Changing the text on Palp would cause full on disqualifications, baring someone who took time out of their lives to come play X-Wing.

Second: You've given good examples of what happens when things change. People get shafted in one way or another. If this "Palp-Tarkin Swap" went through, it would be just like all the others. Do we really want to encourage more of that?

I will admit, I'm coming from not thinking Palp is OP. He's powerful, but fine as is. This whole swap idea was interesting from a theoretical stand point, but in my mind, the potiental draw backs far out weigh the supposed benefits.

And you are right, people who bought the Raider can just switch out Tarkin for Palp. But, that still relies on people knowing about it. If some new player buys the Raider, gets hyped to play Palp on something and takes a Palp list to a tournament without knowing the card had been changed, he/she will get disqualified from a game by no fault of his/her own. As a game developer, FFG has to try to keep that down to a minimum, or they'll lose a lot of new customers.

Even if I doubt FFG will ever 'swap' Tarkin for Palpatine, even if just because Tarkin isn't good enough to sell Raiders on his own, the game has moved beyond the point you can show up to a tournament without knowledge of the FAQ. Apart from tactician nothing else will get you an illegal list, but there's several cards that play completely different according to FAQ.

Also, FFG doesn't seem to have much issue with people buying stuff based on false expectations. See all the ppl preordering the k-wing based on the 'SLAM and bomb' article and FFG going 'lol nope' after launch. Possibly same thing will happen with Quickdraw, although I hope not.

You are right. If you are gonna compete in a tournament, you should double check the official rules. Should. That doesn't mean everyone will. Heck, one tournament I went to, two guys came in with the starting packs they just bought, slapped together what they had and went at it. Almost every tournament I've been to, someone has said something along the lines of "you know you can't do that?" or "you realize you can do this, right?". Most people are impatient, lazy, and didn't feel like slogging pages of FAQ's to see if something they are flying just so happens to be reworked.

And there is a difference between between false advertising and changing something that's been in the player's hands for a while. Both are deplorable and should not be encouraged. But false advertising can be more readily identified and has little to no effect on people who have no idea there was false information to begin with.

I had one guy trying to use opportunist on youngster in a tournament. When he tried to use opportunist on a friendly tie with youngster ability I told him he couldn't. He said he could and it was in ffg article. This was game 3 of the event, and i was facing him on a top table, which means his previous two opponents must not have caught on. It sucks having to be that guy, but as I told him ffg articles have been wrong in the past (but looking back I think he had expose mixed up with opportunist)

Did he continue in the tournament?

I believe so. I felt bad in our games as he kept trying to say he could use it.

I asked him to read both cards out loud. I asked does it say action on opportunist, and he said "no" but came back with "it was in an ffg article" at the time I didn't remember for sure about the article, but pointed out ffg has been wrong in many articles. Though after the tournament realized he was probably thinking expose.

Now if he still played his way or the correct way after our game I don't know, but he wasn't at any top tables. Mind you this was a small tournament of about 16 players or so.

I really did feel bad though because it seemed like an honest misunderstanding, and I ruined his whole list without having to destroy any ships. When I initially saw his list I thought interesting and wondered why he had opportunist on youngster, and then when he tried to pass off his ability was when I realized he made a big mistake in the design, and actually he wanted a TO called over which I did.

To be fair Expose wouldn't have really worked either.

To be fair Expose wouldn't have really worked either.

Why? I mean, it wouldn't have been good, but it would have worked.

To be fair Expose wouldn't have really worked either.

Why? I mean, it wouldn't have been good, but it would have worked.

I think he means precisely that, even expose could be use with Youngster, virtually in every case, it simply better to spend this action in a focus, mathematically is the same improvement in offense, but much more versatile.

And you don't need Youngster for a focus.

To be fair Expose wouldn't have really worked either.

Why? I mean, it wouldn't have been good, but it would have worked.

I think he means precisely that, even expose could be use with Youngster, virtually in every case, it simply better to spend this action in a focus, mathematically is the same improvement in offense, but much more versatile.

And you don't need Youngster for a focus.

If you wanted to be silly, you could throw Howlrunner and Youngster with Expose into your squad, then toss in like one academy and 3 Black Squadron's with PtL.

The Black Squadrons would be able to Expose off of Youngster, then PtL for a focus token and reroll once because of Howlrunner. Boom; a set of Tie Fighters with Focus and Howlrunner re-roll with 3 attack dice each.

Is it good? H$@* no, but it might be funny to try flying some 3 red dice Tie Fighters for one game.

....or I guess you could just bring 18pt Interceptors and not Youngster, and not take the stress each round.

....shut up.

As I said, too late now. In order to do this, you would need a reprint or errata. Reprint will mean they sell it to us, which is unfair to those who paid for the card to play with the card. Errata could mean someone misses it and shows up to a tournament with an invalid squad, and are disqualified.

As far as I know, all cards that receive errata are printed with the new text when FFG does another run of the product. The original cards have always been valid and you are not forced to replace your card with the updated one. Reprints and errata are essentially one and the same in this game.

The risk of people showing up with illegal lists already exists with Tactician and with all of the copies of Experimental Interface that are floating around without the unique dot on them.

So far, they've only really errataed cards to create clarifications.

This is untrue.

Tactician - Made Limited through errata.

Reinforced Deflectors - Errata made critical damage count for the total.

Decloak - Errata completely changed the timing of the decloak. Phantoms became less reactive while becoming harder to block and not as adversely affected by ion tokens.

Those are three examples that are clearly not clarifications. There are others that were changes that I think would go beyond clarification but would probably lead to arguments that distract from the point that FFG has used errata in the past to balance cards for X-Wing.

i havent played vs or with palp aces enough to declare if it needs a nerf. but i believe changing palp to range 1-3 would be all thats needed. IF for some reason that wasn't enough (but i think it would be). MAYBE 1-2. but that would probably kill the card.

I see no reason why a 1-3 range restriction wouldn't be almost over kill itself TBH. but its the most realistic option i can think of.

As I said, too late now. In order to do this, you would need a reprint or errata. Reprint will mean they sell it to us, which is unfair to those who paid for the card to play with the card. Errata could mean someone misses it and shows up to a tournament with an invalid squad, and are disqualified.

As far as I know, all cards that receive errata are printed with the new text when FFG does another run of the product. The original cards have always been valid and you are not forced to replace your card with the updated one. Reprints and errata are essentially one and the same in this game.

The risk of people showing up with illegal lists already exists with Tactician and with all of the copies of Experimental Interface that are floating around without the unique dot on them.

Fair point on the old card still working, but that still doesn't answer the question of the new player buying an old print. That player thinks he has an option that in the rules of the game he got when he bought his set and expansions. Experienced players of games like this know to look for additional rules online because they know that balancing is an ongoing issue. People fresh to this kind of game might not know, and could be turned off by something they bought in good faith doesn't work like they were told by the rules they have. Yes, this risk already exists. Never disputed that. I'm arguing against making that risk worse.

I believe so. I felt bad in our games as he kept trying to say he could use it.

I asked him to read both cards out loud. I asked does it say action on opportunist, and he said "no" but came back with "it was in an ffg article" at the time I didn't remember for sure about the article, but pointed out ffg has been wrong in many articles. Though after the tournament realized he was probably thinking expose.

Now if he still played his way or the correct way after our game I don't know, but he wasn't at any top tables. Mind you this was a small tournament of about 16 players or so.

I really did feel bad though because it seemed like an honest misunderstanding, and I ruined his whole list without having to destroy any ships. When I initially saw his list I thought interesting and wondered why he had opportunist on youngster, and then when he tried to pass off his ability was when I realized he made a big mistake in the design, and actually he wanted a TO called over which I did.

I believe so. I felt bad in our games as he kept trying to say he could use it.

I asked him to read both cards out loud. I asked does it say action on opportunist, and he said "no" but came back with "it was in an ffg article" at the time I didn't remember for sure about the article, but pointed out ffg has been wrong in many articles. Though after the tournament realized he was probably thinking expose.

Now if he still played his way or the correct way after our game I don't know, but he wasn't at any top tables. Mind you this was a small tournament of about 16 players or so.

I really did feel bad though because it seemed like an honest misunderstanding, and I ruined his whole list without having to destroy any ships. When I initially saw his list I thought interesting and wondered why he had opportunist on youngster, and then when he tried to pass off his ability was when I realized he made a big mistake in the design, and actually he wanted a TO called over which I did.

Yeah, it's always a bid saddening when a misinterpretation or misunderstanding affects a squad. I once flew against a guy trying to feed Vessery TLs with Academy Pilots. And since this was before Veterans came out, I really wanted to see a Defender shine.

NO! You have to hit first in order to change a crit into 2 hits with Bossk.

NO! Asteroids do not give you stress!

NO! You are not actually forced to shoot at Biggs. Firstly, firing is optional. Secondly, other ships are only untargetable if they're range 1 of Biggs. If they're far away from Biggs and you have a shot on both, then you can choose.

We can't hold the game back in order to baby people who can't RtFC.

In fact, if a change so significant as to ban Palpatine and allow Tarkin into Standard were to happen, news would spread very quickly even to people who don't normally read the FAQ themselves. A newbie would show up to an event, and someone would ask him if he heard about the new FAQ and how Palpatine is banned. Do you think many events were played with the old decloak rules after the nerf? How many were played with no half health, half large base MoV scoring after that nerf?

Yorr was good before Palpatine, but I'm not sure he plays into PalpAces's strengths. Yorr worked great in Wave 4 and 5 because he wasn't a priority target: he buffed his wingmen but he was 24 points. PalpYorr is 32 points. The PalpShuttle is already an expensive priority target: Yorr forces that shuttle into the fray and paints an even bigger target on it.

Yorr plays amazingly with aces.

During store championship I could k turn with omega leader or whisper anf still have my actions. Usually this almost always caught people off guard. I flew yorr so that by the time I needed him he'd be able to get into range just in time.

The most important part about Yorr is that he does not need to be in range at the start of the round, he moves first and wherever your aces land later needs to be in range. That is a lot more options than it seems so, especially with the shuttles hard turns useable as well.

Besides, Soontir might be somewhat out of flavor anyway as Kylo Ren and Jax might become a great pair. Depending on the dial of the upsi that coordinate might free interceptors from ptl.

To be fair Expose wouldn't have really worked either.

Why? I mean, it wouldn't have been good, but it would have worked.

I think he means precisely that, even expose could be use with Youngster, virtually in every case, it simply better to spend this action in a focus, mathematically is the same improvement in offense, but much more versatile.

And you don't need Youngster for a focus.

Draconis is correct: Expose has a higher variance (it can give a three die hit) but it comes at the cost of exposing you for an attack that's not actually better than a focused one because that three die hit is so improbable.

It's worth it if you already have a modifier like Howlrunner I believe but as is focus is better in every way save for the slim chance of a triple hit.

You know what?

Its fine with me the way it is.