Tarkin's card seems like a better balanced Palpatine.

It has a range restriction.

People who bought a Raider just for Palpatine aren't screwed.

It's just a focus or removal of a focus token. This doesn't stack that well with certain pilots that get 3 actions a turn and already have a focus, and allows you to run things with Tarkin that don't have Soontir or the Inquisitor's level of action economy.

It comes packaged with the huge range ruler it requires so that's not a problem. Before you complain about how long it is, you can pop off one of the plastic rivets and fold it for storage.

He's only one crew slot, so Phantom Players get some new tech. And if you use him in a Lambda, you can still put a Systems Officer or Fleet Officer onboard.

He removes or adds one focus token to any ship in range 1-4. This means he's more effective against 2 ship lists like fat Turretwing squads and less effective against lists with more ships in them like swarms or BBBBZ-type jouster lists.

You guys hate Deadeye U-Boats right? Hey, one less torpedo.

Overclocked Dengaroo? Haha nope.

Regen Poe is no more.

Maybe Recon Specialist Esege becomes a viable counter pick for Tarkin squads?

All that has to be errated is the italic restriction portion on each card. FFG did it with Tactician.

It's a powerful ability and Imperial Acewings are already powerful enough. But it doesn't make you invincible.

It's such a great idea, this fixes everything.

Pretty sure Tarkin wouldn't ever be allowed for standard play because his ability mentions range 4.

Pretty sure Tarkin wouldn't ever be allowed for standard play because his ability mentions range 4.

Why would this be a problem? He comes packaged with a ship that comes with a huge range ruler. The Upsilon shuttle is getting coordinate and that's been Epic only so far.

This is the first time I've ever fully agreed with a PGS post.

If Palpatine had been Epic only, and Tarkin was allowed in normal games on Large and Small ships, perhaps with his Range nerfed to 1-3, we'd still have the same basic archetype of a support Lambda with two aces, but in a manner that feels much more fair and less arbitrary.

Or switch the ranges on them, force palp to be range 1-3 so the lambda has to be in the fray and not just sitting in a corner for 3+ turns

Moffat is just fine where he is. But they could add other Generals

The problem with palpatine is his effectiveness goes up when number of ships in play goes down, so he feels in that weird place of "made for epic" but "best in standard" mindset. With the double crew slot and 8 point cost, it's clear he was made with epic in mind, but I just dont see him as that great in epic play as worth the points. Even if what is "best" in epic is still mostly up in the air.

I do for the most part agree that he probably should have been Epic Only, but seeing Tarkin tooling around in a shuttle on the front line seems almost as odd to me as the Emperor leading battle engagements himself.

Edited because I made a mistake as an example.

Moffat is just fine where he is. But they could add other Generals

Moffat needs to go (and will finally next year). Davies was better.

The problem with palpatine is his effectiveness goes up when number of ships in play goes down, so he feels in that weird place of "made for epic" but "best in standard" mindset. With the double crew slot and 8 point cost, it's clear he was made with epic in mind, but I just dont see him as that great in epic play as worth the points. Even if what is "best" in epic is still mostly up in the air.

I do for the most part agree that he probably should have been Epic Only, but seeing Tarkin tooling around in a TIE shuttle on the front line seems almost as odd to me as the Emperor leading battle engagements himself.

Tarkin couldn't be in a TIE Shuttle, he's 6 points.

While it's categorically not happening... I must confess I kinda like it. Half Kyle Katarn, half Palob... and you don't have a fly a HWK to do it.

And it helps the action-starved ships more than the action-glutted ones.

Huh. Neat.

Oh well!

The problem with palpatine is his effectiveness goes up when number of ships in play goes down, so he feels in that weird place of "made for epic" but "best in standard" mindset. With the double crew slot and 8 point cost, it's clear he was made with epic in mind, but I just dont see him as that great in epic play as worth the points. Even if what is "best" in epic is still mostly up in the air.

I do for the most part agree that he probably should have been Epic Only, but seeing Tarkin tooling around in a TIE shuttle on the front line seems almost as odd to me as the Emperor leading battle engagements himself.

Tarkin couldn't be in a TIE Shuttle, he's 6 points.

Erp, you're right, my mistake. Still odd even in a lambda on the front line, in my eyes. Original post edited.

PGS gets some love back! I agree he should be Epic only. The Emperor or a clone of the Emperor isn't normally flying around with 2 Aces looking for a brawl. Palp lovers will make up some mission viable reason as to why he should be in Skirmish games, but what I say to that is...Only play him in missions for Skirmish style games.

I wish sometimes that you could only take one ace and the rest had to be generics, down side to that would be everyone would be flying triple toilets all the time. I think the JM5K is the most under play-tested ship FFG has made so far, but that is neither here nor there.

As people have been made aware by PGS in multiple threads, Palp is under costed for what he does. He stops 1 point on Vader, Soontir or the Inq, that's already roughly a 12 point swing.

The problem with palpatine is his effectiveness goes up when number of ships in play goes down, so he feels in that weird place of "made for epic" but "best in standard" mindset. With the double crew slot and 8 point cost, it's clear he was made with epic in mind, but I just dont see him as that great in epic play as worth the points. Even if what is "best" in epic is still mostly up in the air.

I do for the most part agree that he probably should have been Epic Only, but seeing Tarkin tooling around in a TIE shuttle on the front line seems almost as odd to me as the Emperor leading battle engagements himself.

Tarkin couldn't be in a TIE Shuttle, he's 6 points.

Erp, you're right, my mistake. Still odd even in a lambda on the front line, in my eyes. Original post edited.

They do two different things. Tarkin debuffs your opponent while Palpatine buffs your ships. The two crew slot is the restriction on Palpatine (can you imagine him riding shotgun with whisper?).

Now I will say I think some of the Huge ship Imperial crew like Tarkin would have been great with standard. However I don't think the Huge Ship only eratta would be good with Palpatine. If anything make it a range 1-3 for standard games only (for epic let it stay unlimited). The one thing Palpatine does is show how much of the game depends on randomness through the dice. So if there is any flaw it is not with Palpatine's point cost or the concept in general it is with the dice.

If Tarkin was playable he wouldn't get played.

Shuttle with Tarkin is worse than a 3rd ace.

If Tarkin was playable he wouldn't get played.

Shuttle with Tarkin is worse than a 3rd ace.

Then put him in a Firespray or a Phantom or a Decimator.

And the Lambda still isn't a bad choice either. Maybe you throw a little more points at it for Gunner and FCS with Tarkin aboard. That's a 34 point Lambda. Tack on Omega Leader with his standard 26 point loadout, and you still have 40 points left over. That seems reasonably effective in a wave 8 meta where Tarkin exists instead of Palpatine.

You could fly a 45 point Whisper with Tarkin aboard. Then you have 55 points left for whatever you want. Tail Gunner Firespray of your choosing? Soontir and a 20 point Procket TAP?

Tarkin should be Death Star only. +1 to your Superlaser rolls. -1 to your evacuate rolls.

Tarkin and Palp in Epic together is much fun.

They do two different things. Tarkin debuffs your opponent while Palpatine buffs your ships. The two crew slot is the restriction on Palpatine (can you imagine him riding shotgun with whisper?).

Now I will say I think some of the Huge ship Imperial crew like Tarkin would have been great with standard. However I don't think the Huge Ship only eratta would be good with Palpatine. If anything make it a range 1-3 for standard games only (for epic let it stay unlimited). The one thing Palpatine does is show how much of the game depends on randomness through the dice. So if there is any flaw it is not with Palpatine's point cost or the concept in general it is with the dice.

If the game would be completely predictable like, say, Power Grid, it would be terribly boring.

Tarkin would be just another crew. I think he could go in Standard Play quite nicely (and given my dislike for Deadeye's simplification on ordnance I'm quite keen on Deadeye counters) but from a non-balance design perspective I think Palpatine was implemented quite well.

Palpatine's restricted design is a good thing. He has to go on a shuttle and obliterates that shuttle's cost efficiency. This fits the Imperial's "Command Ship" support identity perfectly. Imperial support ships give out powerful buffs but are very limited themselves: Jonus can't buff his own ordnance, Howlrunner can't benefit from her own ability and has a giant target on her head while flying a TIE fighter, Yorr and Fleet Officer stress themselves out and a Palpatine Lambda loses the very low price that compensated for its dial.

The problem is his ability, intended to improve the reliability of the TIE interceptor (because tournament lists hate RNG) also mitigated its weakness: it was a step too far over Soontir's token stacking, Autothrusters and Stealth Device.

The TIE interceptor probably needed a tournament buff but Palpatine ended up decreasing its weaknesses rather than increasing its strengths. In terms of success rate that doesn't make much difference but in terms of gameplay it made Soontir good at everything.

Black Market Slicer Tools is meant to deal with this by limiting the use of PTL: if the interceptor can't constantly stack tokens, thrusters, Stealth Device and Palpatine it loses its tanking power and has more counterplay.

If BMST and future fixes fail and Palpatine needs errata what I'd do is make his ability only affect red dice.

I think BMST will achieve very little. It's going to be played a lot less widely than people think, and the aces already have a custom-made counter to it in Yorr. They barely even have to change their lists to render it pointless!

I'd like to see them play Yorr, it would be funny to have to not ever worry about the shuttle's arc as it drifts into obscurity on the playing field.

I think BMST will achieve very little. It's going to be played a lot less widely than people think, and the aces already have a custom-made counter to it in Yorr. They barely even have to change their lists to render it pointless!

It kills the pilot every body complains about the most for a bit. For a short amount of time (till the upsilon shuttle comes out) Soontir Fel will either see less or no play. Why? He needs to get stressed to be effective. Yorr pulling stress means one less token. That means as many tokens as any other interceptor so you should just fly Carnor Jax. If you do fly Soontir instead well, he really doesn't like 50/50 chances to take damage from enemy ships that cost a third of his points.

I think BMST will achieve very little. It's going to be played a lot less widely than people think, and the aces already have a custom-made counter to it in Yorr. They barely even have to change their lists to render it pointless!

It kills the pilot every body complains about the most for a bit. For a short amount of time (till the upsilon shuttle comes out) Soontir Fel will either see less or no play. Why? He needs to get stressed to be effective. Yorr pulling stress means one less token. That means as many tokens as any other interceptor so you should just fly Carnor Jax. If you do fly Soontir instead well, he really doesn't like 50/50 chances to take damage from enemy ships that cost a third of his points.

But they can situationally choose to keep Focus or pass off the stress, and it means BMST will basically never kill Fel, they just might allow it to to deal a couple of points but as they're not counted as hits they keep Stealth Device and are just as untouchable as they ever were before BMST hit the table and started wasting your actions.

Plus it's actually going to be played a lot less than people expect, maybe only finding a truly competitive home in Brobots lists.

I think BMST will achieve very little. It's going to be played a lot less widely than people think, and the aces already have a custom-made counter to it in Yorr. They barely even have to change their lists to render it pointless!

I'm not sure you recognise how limiting Yorr is. His ability is powerful but that power comes at a cost: in this case a cost in where your ace can go.

To use Yorr to relieve stress Yorr has to be within Range 1-2 of the TIE interceptor's final position.

1. This requires Yorr to enter the fray, something Palpatine does not want to do for two reasons. Firstly, a Lambda wants to hang back from the battle because it struggles to turn, and secondly Palpatine wants to hang back from the battle so he doesn't focused down.
2. Yorr stresses the shuttle, making it even less maneuverable.
3. This limits the repositional ability of the ace pilots as they've got to end their activation in range of Yorr or out of range of BMST. This limits the places they can arc dodge to and makes them easier to catch in arc and kill.

Furthermore, using Yorr prevents Fel's ability from firing.

Even if you never trigger BMST it's doing work by limiting Fel's maneuverability. To dismiss BMST because of Yorr is like dismissing Palob because the enemy has the option to not focus.