If it's so bad then why is it already appearing in a number of Palp Aces lists before BMST?

I think BMST is going to be pretty marginal already and having even some more penetration of Yorr into aces could kill it outright as an option.

If it's so bad then why is it already appearing in a number of Palp Aces lists before BMST?

I think BMST is going to be pretty marginal already and having even some more penetration of Yorr into aces could kill it outright as an option.

Do you see Yorr much anymore? He was a ship that was typically used to combat the stress hog and other rebel stress builds that were competitive before the Jumpmasters.

If it's so bad then why is it already appearing in a number of Palp Aces lists before BMST?

I think BMST is going to be pretty marginal already and having even some more penetration of Yorr into aces could kill it outright as an option.

Do you see Yorr much anymore? He was a ship that was typically used to combat the stress hog and other rebel stress builds that were competitive before the Jumpmasters.

Yeah he's part of the Mynock special. One of the more popular palp aces builds.

If it's so bad then why is it already appearing in a number of Palp Aces lists before BMST?

I think BMST is going to be pretty marginal already and having even some more penetration of Yorr into aces could kill it outright as an option.

Do you see Yorr much anymore? He was a ship that was typically used to combat the stress hog and other rebel stress builds that were competitive before the Jumpmasters.

Yeah he's part of the Mynock special. One of the more popular palp aces builds.

Yeah, I'm aware of that list, but I haven't seen it place recently at any big tournaments (late regionals, system open, or regionals) and I think that they have some pretty big concerns about Dengaroo with that list. Maybe it will come back out, but it's not a list that would really be affected by BMST anyway (just like the current iterations of defenders wouldn't).

The gossip is that the Wave 9 meta will be significantly different from what we've got now, and I can see Yorr returning to popularity.

But that in the past stress became an issue for Aces and they switched to Yorr would suggest that if BMST makes stress an issue for Aces in the future then they might well make the same move.

The gossip is that the Wave 9 meta will be significantly different from what we've got now, and I can see Yorr returning to popularity.

But that in the past stress became an issue for Aces and they switched to Yorr would suggest that if BMST makes stress an issue for Aces in the future then they might well make the same move.

I don't disagree, but I think it significantly changes the lists that we currently see (Yorr leaves 32 points to start) and will certainly affect the current strongest version (Soontir, Inquis, SJ on Palp) and Soontir in almost any list is just not going to be seen because of the risk.

It won't affect one of the stronger emerging versions of the list (a pair of defenders), though. Either way, this discussion is veering to topics for the other thread.

Moffat is just fine where he is. But they could add other Generals

Moffat needs to go (and will finally next year). Davies was better.

They do two different things. Tarkin debuffs your opponent while Palpatine buffs your ships. The two crew slot is the restriction on Palpatine (can you imagine him riding shotgun with whisper?). Now I will say I think some of the Huge ship Imperial crew like Tarkin would have been great with standard. However I don't think the Huge Ship only eratta would be good with Palpatine. If anything make it a range 1-3 for standard games only (for epic let it stay unlimited). The one thing Palpatine does is show how much of the game depends on randomness through the dice. So if there is any flaw it is not with Palpatine's point cost or the concept in general it is with the dice.

No, the dice are not a problem. This is a design decision - the game has a strong random element to it. This is what makes it fun and approachable.If the game would be completely predictable like, say, Power Grid, it would be terribly boring.

I'm willing to bet some people would argue losing because they blanked out on 6-7 greens consecutively is the opposite of fun, but I somewhat agree with your point: randomness majes games more casual friendly because it means the best player won't always win.

It's however completely unsurprising that competitive players will seek to eliminate randomness as much as possible. Nobody wants to get eliminated from a tournament because he got unlucky. X-wing currently allows that to a pretty large dwgree. We currently have aces that can conjure 3 Evade results out of a blank, blank, blank roll and hyper-consistent offense is nothing unusual to the point where rolling 3/4 or 2/3 hits on an attack after all mods is a bad roll on many competitive builds.

Tarkin as a non-huge ship only crew would have been interesting and made certain builds less terrifying (I'm looking at you, U-Boats). While I don't believe Palp is unbalanced, I do think having Tarkin over Palp would have been more interesting.

Unfortunately, too late now.

I'd like to see them play Yorr, it would be funny to have to not ever worry about the shuttle's arc as it drifts into obscurity on the playing field.

That's kind of what a shuttle does, a friend if mine and myself both won store championship using yorr in our lists. You should worry about yorr.

And he also made top 8 at our regional using yorr. Though he didn't get to finish as we couldn't stay till the end unfortunately, but between he and I, he had a good chance to win

His list was yorr, jax and fel.

He's very good using that list. If people think yorr will hinder interceptors you really dont understand how to fly the list.

Yes you have to stay within a specific range band, but if you take that into account during set up and your starting maneuvers, you dictate where the battle takes place and it's not too hard to keep yorr close, but not directly in the conflict, so when you need him he's there.

Yorr was good before Palpatine, but I'm not sure he plays into PalpAces's strengths. Yorr worked great in Wave 4 and 5 because he wasn't a priority target: he buffed his wingmen but he was 24 points. PalpYorr is 32 points. The PalpShuttle is already an expensive priority target: Yorr forces that shuttle into the fray and paints an even bigger target on it.

tbh i always found it odd that Palp wasnt huge ship only considering wtf is he doing in a dogfight battle anyway.... lol

Tarkin's ability is great but not on a huge ship. Huge ships dont have enough crew for someone like him, but you'd probably see him quite a bit on smaller ships. Heck the Decimator would LOVE to have him on board since RAC usually either has Palp on board + Mara Jade (or captive) or Mara Jade (or captive) and.........weapons engineer? lol. Imperials dont really have many crew that help the ship theyre actually on, and while Tarkin wouldnt work on RAC himself it would cut a defensive focus out of the picture before you shoot, which still helps him quite a bit.

Though his range would need to be cut to 1-3 purely to cut the need for a range4 ruler, and 6pts is potentially a bit steep for what he does. Price and lack of crew makes me not use him on huge ships as it is.

Well, if they let range 4 in the game, how about let major rhymer fire his at range 4 too? I mean, maybe with that people would use him

pffft if you could make him fire at range4 i would totally use him.

LRS ftw!

Yorr was good before Palpatine, but I'm not sure he plays into PalpAces's strengths. Yorr worked great in Wave 4 and 5 because he wasn't a priority target: he buffed his wingmen but he was 24 points. PalpYorr is 32 points. The PalpShuttle is already an expensive priority target: Yorr forces that shuttle into the fray and paints an even bigger target on it.

Yorr plays amazingly with aces.

During store championship I could k turn with omega leader or whisper anf still have my actions. Usually this almost always caught people off guard. I flew yorr so that by the time I needed him he'd be able to get into range just in time.

My buddy as I said also won a s.c and placed top 8 using yorr with fel and jax. Yorr isn't there to take stress away from fel, but more so than jax, or counter stress builds. In one of his games fel was hit twice with thermal detonators, and each time yorr took the stress.

A good player will dictate where the battle takes place, and have yorr at the ready to move first as to take the much needed stress.

It's all about how you set up. There is a specific way it must be played. Yorr still hangs back out of the battle for the most of it. Don't forget you are still covering a decent amount of distance with range 2 of a large base, and he moves before your aces, so you can rush him in if he turned out to hang back a little too much.

If people think yorr will hinder aces, not at all. If you don't know how to set it up and have an idea how your going to maneuver and dictate the battle, maybe you'll struggle, but us regular yorr players will be right at home

Yorr's great when he's not a priority target. Palpatine makes him one.

PalpYorr is in conflict with itself: Palpatine wants to hang back and not die, Yorr wants to be in the fray to eat stress. Same with a Coordinating Upsilon.

I have to admit I agree with PGS. I think the game would have been in a much better position if tarkin was standard instead of palp.

This is the first time I've ever fully agreed with a PGS post.

If Palpatine had been Epic only, and Tarkin was allowed in normal games on Large and Small ships, perhaps with his Range nerfed to 1-3, we'd still have the same basic archetype of a support Lambda with two aces, but in a manner that feels much more fair and less arbitrary.

While it's categorically not happening... I must confess I kinda like it. Half Kyle Katarn, half Palob... and you don't have a fly a HWK to do it.

And it helps the action-starved ships more than the action-glutted ones.

Huh. Neat.

Oh well!

Tarkin as a non-huge ship only crew would have been interesting and made certain builds less terrifying (I'm looking at you, U-Boats). While I don't believe Palp is unbalanced, I do think having Tarkin over Palp would have been more interesting.

Unfortunately, too late now.

I have to admit I agree with PGS. I think the game would have been in a much better position if tarkin was standard instead of palp.

It seems like this idea has a lot of support. If everyone wants it to happen, could we not just bug Alex and Frank about it until they change it?

What is FFG's mailing address?

Now why can't more of your posts be like this?

Logical, constructive discussion that aims to solve an issue.

edit: also I agree 100%

edit #2: how much would this suck for players who bought Palp separately though...

This is the first time I've ever fully agreed with a PGS post.

If Palpatine had been Epic only, and Tarkin was allowed in normal games on Large and Small ships, perhaps with his Range nerfed to 1-3, we'd still have the same basic archetype of a support Lambda with two aces, but in a manner that feels much more fair and less arbitrary.

While it's categorically not happening... I must confess I kinda like it. Half Kyle Katarn, half Palob... and you don't have a fly a HWK to do it.

And it helps the action-starved ships more than the action-glutted ones.

Huh. Neat.

Oh well!

Tarkin as a non-huge ship only crew would have been interesting and made certain builds less terrifying (I'm looking at you, U-Boats). While I don't believe Palp is unbalanced, I do think having Tarkin over Palp would have been more interesting.

Unfortunately, too late now.

I have to admit I agree with PGS. I think the game would have been in a much better position if tarkin was standard instead of palp.

It seems like this idea has a lot of support. If everyone wants it to happen, could we not just bug Alex and Frank about it until they change it?

What is FFG's mailing address?

So why stop there. Let's let every Tom **** and Harry who thinks they have a great idea change the game. Next well be flying around on mynocks, with Jedi ewoks piloting them through tomato soup

I'm sorry man, but that is a extremely foolish thing to say. Do you really think they are going to listen to you? I'm not trying to be mean, but truthful. No they are not, and what 5-15-25 people who agree with you is not the majority of players. So that isn't even a ballpark of support needed to try to even change a rule in which you don't like.

Im sorry man, but I have some news for ya, the world does not revolve around ya. Gasp!! I know, shocking isn't it

If you are truly unhappy about it, there's the door. Nobody is forcing you to play. Why in the world would you play a game that you do not enjoy?

I'd say the chances of them changing the rule or upgrade to what you want, is about as good of a chance that you stop posting the emperor complaint threads

May as well face the facts. The emperor is hear to stay. May as well suck it up and move on. The same old song and dance is getting quite ridiculous

This is the first time I've ever fully agreed with a PGS post.

If Palpatine had been Epic only, and Tarkin was allowed in normal games on Large and Small ships, perhaps with his Range nerfed to 1-3, we'd still have the same basic archetype of a support Lambda with two aces, but in a manner that feels much more fair and less arbitrary.

While it's categorically not happening... I must confess I kinda like it. Half Kyle Katarn, half Palob... and you don't have a fly a HWK to do it.

And it helps the action-starved ships more than the action-glutted ones.

Huh. Neat.

Oh well!

Tarkin as a non-huge ship only crew would have been interesting and made certain builds less terrifying (I'm looking at you, U-Boats). While I don't believe Palp is unbalanced, I do think having Tarkin over Palp would have been more interesting.

Unfortunately, too late now.

I have to admit I agree with PGS. I think the game would have been in a much better position if tarkin was standard instead of palp.

It seems like this idea has a lot of support. If everyone wants it to happen, could we not just bug Alex and Frank about it until they change it?

What is FFG's mailing address?

As a theoretical possibility, having Tarkin over Palp is interesting. Realistically, however, that boat sailed a long time ago.

It seems like this idea has a lot of support. If everyone wants it to happen, could we not just bug Alex and Frank about it until they change it?

What is FFG's mailing address?

This is the first time I've ever fully agreed with a PGS post.

If Palpatine had been Epic only, and Tarkin was allowed in normal games on Large and Small ships, perhaps with his Range nerfed to 1-3, we'd still have the same basic archetype of a support Lambda with two aces, but in a manner that feels much more fair and less arbitrary.

While it's categorically not happening... I must confess I kinda like it. Half Kyle Katarn, half Palob... and you don't have a fly a HWK to do it.

And it helps the action-starved ships more than the action-glutted ones.

Huh. Neat.

Oh well!

Tarkin as a non-huge ship only crew would have been interesting and made certain builds less terrifying (I'm looking at you, U-Boats). While I don't believe Palp is unbalanced, I do think having Tarkin over Palp would have been more interesting.

Unfortunately, too late now.

I have to admit I agree with PGS. I think the game would have been in a much better position if tarkin was standard instead of palp.

It seems like this idea has a lot of support. If everyone wants it to happen, could we not just bug Alex and Frank about it until they change it?

What is FFG's mailing address?

As I said, too late now. In order to do this, you would need a reprint or errata. Reprint will mean they sell it to us, which is unfair to those who paid for the card to play with the card. Errata could mean someone misses it and shows up to a tournament with an invalid squad, and are disqualified.

As a theoretical possibility, having Tarkin over Palp is interesting. Realistically, however, that boat sailed a long time ago.

They errated Tactician and I went out of my way to acquire 8 of those for a certain build.

They handed out C-3PO promos like candy.

FFG shouldn't hold the game back for people that paid $30 for a single upgrade card on the secondary market. And people that bought an entire Raider just for Palpatine get to use Tarkin instead, they won't be screwed.

Great idea. Nice balance. Send it on in!

It's actually a fascinating idea for a fix, but can we just accept that FFG is never going to change the Palpatine card and move on? So far, they've only really errataed cards to create clarifications. They've never changed a card as radically as is desired by certain people. It's just never going to happen.

I think BMST will achieve very little. It's going to be played a lot less widely than people think, and the aces already have a custom-made counter to it in Yorr. They barely even have to change their lists to render it pointless!

Well, since Soontir is the Ace from Palp Aces that people complain about the MOST, the fact that Yorr's ability stops Fel's ability from activating means that BMST is still going to be a big deal against Soontir. Either you power his ability and take the stress, opening you up to pretty much any ship with BMST on the map having a 50% chance to lay a damage on you, OR you don't power his ability and don't get that extra focus that makes him such a turtle when he wants to be.

"If, through his pilot ability, Captain Yorr intercepts a stress token that is part of the cost of triggering an ability on another ship (such as Soontir Fel or Opportunist), that ability's effect does not resolve."