When you say short side, you mean the 3' edge of the table, correct? Cause I've always played it like OP has it, but looking at the wording now, its supposed to be essentially a small(ish) box in the very middle of the table?

Fleet Ambush is the Yellow Box.

Thanks for this. It's sometimes difficult to interpret the card. I once played that setup against someone who thought it was range 5 of the furthest border of my setup area and his setup area, but those lines overlapped or something weird IIRC.

My opponent's CDR was dodonna, and it worked well for the most part, as he had tons of crits getting through, especially with Luke and things like Yavaris and Adar Talon - I mean honestly his setup could effectively make luke move twice and shoot 3 times in a single round. The first game we played was much closer, and he would have destroyed my Mon Karren, but I flew it through the station at a key point and obstructed almost all of his squadron attacks against me.

And yes, he was new to this particular objective. It wasn't until his 3rd deployment that he figured out what he was going to do, which is why the MC80 is so far out of place. I'm not complaining though.

I'll say this. If any of you squadron-lovers find yourselves in Orlando we can have a showdown to prove once and for all which is better.

So to ask about the elephant in the room.

What was crazy about turn 1?

Did the image not show up for you? Basically our fleets were extremely close and all of his squadrons were on top of my fleet before the first ship activated, so almost everyone got to shoot on the first turn, (Which practically never happens), and I destroyed his 1/3rd of his ships like on my 2nd activation. After that turn it was basically just an MC-80 that I had to run down with all my CR-90s. The point is, the game was pretty much over, right at setup. I've never seen that happen before.

So I can learn from it that playing competitive ruins not only every game but also Armada, because you ditch the very scenric squadrons totgether with half the Star Wars feeling because they are not "competitive"?

I ditch them because I play X-Wing so if I want X-Wings etc, I had a whole game designed around them. I like Armada for the big ships. Also they happen to be overcosted in this game.

Squadrons are fun,

Just Yesterday I was playing a 300 point match with my little brother, playing dangerous territory.

I had:

admiral screed

VSD2 -dominator+leading shots and intel officer

gladiator with insidious and ordinance experts, engine techs and rapid reload

Imperial raider + impetuous title

1 tie interceptor

3 tie fighter

he took:

MC80 ackbar, enhanced armament

AF2 enhanced armament ( he's a fan of enhanced armament)

probably some other upgrades I don't remember

1 A-wing

2x-wing

1 y-wing.

I won while taking less objective tokens

the raider was able to take 2 hits from being rammed by the MC80 while avoiding damage from the MC80's weak front zone. directly after that it flew next to the fighter swarm to take out the Y-wing and A-wing. which with the X-wing had destroyed my fighter wings.

meanwhile the insidious wasn't able to sneak behind the AF and was going to be in a lot of trouble, it was only saved because of a lucky engineering command and the dominator coming up behind the assault frigate and unleashing a devestating volley into the back.

game ended with the MC80 and x-wings in retreat while the imperial ships were circling to reform. with the insidious dangerously limping at 1 hull

but if my squadrons had not dellayed his they would have taken out the insidious. the 1 shield my interceptor knocked off the side of the assault frigate also helped a little bit I guess.

so: squadrons are fun and you should always have a few.

So I can learn from it that playing competitive ruins not only every game but also Armada, because you ditch the very scenric squadrons totgether with half the Star Wars feeling because they are not "competitive"?

No, squadrons are definitely competitive. Thing is, they're also hard to figure out because they have a LOT of subtlety to them, so if you haven't taken the time to struggle through that learning curve, you're not going to get your points' worth out of them. Not saying this is the case for everyone who doesn't like to use them, just that some dismissed then early because they were hard and have never come around on them.

A fun thing to try as Hyperspace Assault Fleet Ambush player 1 is to deploy the Yavaris close to your opponent's deployment zone mid table but facing away at speed 3. You can activate B-wings from it turn one and the rear shield isn't too bad with 2 braces. Then you can fly away and with the four points of yaw you can go either left or right and join up with the rest of your fleet. A boosted comms MC80 or AFII can then take over the fighters.

Edited correct mission name

A fun thing to try as Hyperspace assault player 1 is to deploy the Yavaris close to your opponent's deployment zone mid table but facing away at speed 3. You can activate B-wings from it turn one and the rear shield isn't too bad with 2 braces. Then you can fly away and with the four points of yaw you can go either left or right and join up with the rest of your fleet. A boosted comms MC80 or AFII can then take over the fighters.

Nice idea, I like it. Last time something like that happened to me I had a bunch of CR-90s and just set them up facing backwards, they swooped around and it was no problem. Ambush is kinda funny like that. I'm assuming you meant ambush rather than assault right?

Yes Fleet Ambush, edited the post.

Using fast nippy ships facing away from the enemy is good as long as you don't have several of them as you can only really save one immediately the game begins. Deploying at 90 degrees to the table edge could be used to fire a broadside then turn away from the opponents or possibly turn towards them if you can get in an advantageous position such as on a VSD flank arc.

I've not played much Armada - but are squadrons just not a thing at the competitive level or is Crabbok just a minority voice?

I've not played much Armada - but are squadrons just not a thing at the competitive level or is Crabbok just a minority voice?

I've not played much Armada - but are squadrons just not a thing at the competitive level or is Crabbok just a minority voice?

In my mind it's the opposite - squadronless fleets are struggling to stay competitive.

Definitely this.

And as more and more Squadron-centric things (including more squadrons) become available, I feel it will be even more so... But there will be options.

OK - that's what I thought - seems with Flotillas, Corellian Conflict and Wave 5 - that FFG are really pushing for squadrons to be an important part of the game - plus it seems like even from Wave 1 that they are important - if you turn up with a squadronless fleet - wouldn't you just get wrecked by enemy squadrons - particularly things like Rhymer?

You aren't ruined out the gate, there are a number of people who have had success with a squadron-less fleet, but it is getting rarer and rarer. But then again, that's not entirely a bad thing. To go with no squadrons at all is a pretty extreme decision, and as in any game when you lean to one extreme or another there should be a serious risk/reward. The risk is they run into a bomber fleet and are in for a tough road, the reward is when they run into a fleet designed to deal with the bomber fleet with a lot of anti-squadron points and they have an advantage.

What I learned at a recent tournament is that flotillas are a bastard.

The thought process goes like this (at least in the Golden Horseshoe meta)

If you have a squadron less fleet facing a carrier fleet, conventional wisdom was that you are aiming to bum-rush the carriers, table your opponent and then all those pesky squadron points are in your pocket.

Since carriers used to be difficult to miss targets that needed to be in medium or long range of all dem squadrons this was very viable (especially going second and packing a bunch of tempo-forcing objectives)

But now with flotillas a player can split 1 big easy to pin carrier in to 3 annoying flotillas with scatters and evades and have points left over for a couple of combat ships and max points of squads it has become very difficult to table an opponent who knows how to run and gun and to get value from squads. End result is if you have no squads you are facing an opponent that can do significant damage to you with a force of invested points you can do very little to efficiently kill.

The guy that won the tourney included a demo and an insidious (one with agent Kallus to help against Reikaan Aces lists) and a balanced squad force heavy with bombers. His first 2 matches he lost less than 100 points worth and his last match he lost only 160 or so. (incidentally this guy regularly plays the guy that won Gencon and is probably one of the best Armada players out there, and a great guy too). The general consensus was that no-squadron lists in a competitive meta are basically dead.

What I learned at a recent tournament is that flotillas are a bastard.

The thought process goes like this (at least in the Golden Horseshoe meta)

If you have a squadron less fleet facing a carrier fleet, conventional wisdom was that you are aiming to bum-rush the carriers, table your opponent and then all those pesky squadron points are in your pocket.

Since carriers used to be difficult to miss targets that needed to be in medium or long range of all dem squadrons this was very viable (especially going second and packing a bunch of tempo-forcing objectives)

But now with flotillas a player can split 1 big easy to pin carrier in to 3 annoying flotillas with scatters and evades and have points left over for a couple of combat ships and max points of squads it has become very difficult to table an opponent who knows how to run and gun and to get value from squads. End result is if you have no squads you are facing an opponent that can do significant damage to you with a force of invested points you can do very little to efficiently kill.

The guy that won the tourney included a demo and an insidious (one with agent Kallus to help against Reikaan Aces lists) and a balanced squad force heavy with bombers. His first 2 matches he lost less than 100 points worth and his last match he lost only 160 or so. (incidentally this guy regularly plays the guy that won Gencon and is probably one of the best Armada players out there, and a great guy too). The general consensus was that no-squadron lists in a competitive meta are basically dead.

Edit: I'm also excited about the prospect that this will lead to the antisquadron based upgrades and aces being better investments. Because a lot of that is fun to me but often felt difficult to justify.

Going squadronless against a full fighter build requires patience and disciplines. You can't freak out taking all the pin prick attacks and you need to clearly think about point totals and objectives.

I have not had anyone go aggressive against me if they choose fleet ambush. That would be an interesting change of pace.

As for the squadron battle: In our relatively isolated local meta (12 players or so), squadrons reign supreme. Anyone running less than 80+ in squads tends to get stomped. This was before wave 3/4.

Can we get a mod to change "turn 1" in the title to just the word "setup"?

Please and thank you

My friend, I believe that if you are getting killed by enemy squadrons, you are doing something wrong with your ships. I bring Firesprays to run interference, because they look awesome (of course mine are painted...) and for the occasional potshot at a capital ship. But again, not everyone runs full speed all the time. Just my play style I guess. Against someone more cautious and less aggressive, I can see bombers being very effective. And I am not gonna lie, I love the looks of squadrons on the table...

Aside from Firesrays, I'm not sold on squadrons either. I've never had any ships killed by them.

You may have not but I have killed many many ships with B-Wings before FCTs and after. I love them dearly. They were my anti Demolisher in wave 1 and Wave 2 I did not use them because I had no motivation with them. . .

Going squadronless against a full fighter build requires patience and disciplines. You can't freak out taking all the pin prick attacks and you need to clearly think about point totals and objectives.

Yeah, that's how it used to work.

And don't get me wrong I've run zero squad lists plenty, but the difference now is that you will NOT table the opponent unless they are a bad player or make a bad mistake. I used to basically bank on losing a certain number of ships to a well run Rhymer or Y/B-Ball, it was the "tabling tax" you paid to squash the carriers. The result of the match would always be determined by how long the carriers took to catch and then kill. Thing is now the "Catch" might not ever happen and the pinpricks you had to endure just long enough to kill the carriers (or enough of them to render the squads moot) can easily overwhelm. Don't underestimate bomber command (and even worse, overlapping bomber command), I can't even count how many tie bomber blanks saved my ass when running squadronless, now you can't get as much help from that and believe me I made a point of watching the effect BC had on the 15 games I watched on Saturday and good lord the number of times that black die rolled blank on TBs or scurgs and then became a hit/crit or hell even a hit was eye-opening. So much so that the next day I went out and bought a 5th imp fighter pack to see what 9 tie bombers with rhymer could do!

Going squadronless against a full fighter build requires patience and disciplines. You can't freak out taking all the pin prick attacks and you need to clearly think about point totals and objectives.

Yeah, that's how it used to work.

And don't get me wrong I've run zero squad lists plenty, but the difference now is that you will NOT table the opponent unless they are a bad player or make a bad mistake. I used to basically bank on losing a certain number of ships to a well run Rhymer or Y/B-Ball, it was the "tabling tax" you paid to squash the carriers. The result of the match would always be determined by how long the carriers took to catch and then kill. Thing is now the "Catch" might not ever happen and the pinpricks you had to endure just long enough to kill the carriers (or enough of them to render the squads moot) can easily overwhelm. Don't underestimate bomber command (and even worse, overlapping bomber command), I can't even count how many tie bomber blanks saved my ass when running squadronless, now you can't get as much help from that and believe me I made a point of watching the effect BC had on the 15 games I watched on Saturday and good lord the number of times that black die rolled blank on TBs or scurgs and then became a hit/crit or hell even a hit was eye-opening. So much so that the next day I went out and bought a 5th imp fighter pack to see what 9 tie bombers with rhymer could do!

I would be very hesistant to call any kind of build dead. Hopefully the game system is balanced enough to let people play multiple ways. But if you are gonna go squadronless, you gotta stay disciplined and focused because that is gonna be a hard game sometimes.

Going squadronless against a full fighter build requires patience and disciplines. You can't freak out taking all the pin prick attacks and you need to clearly think about point totals and objectives.

Yeah, that's how it used to work.

And don't get me wrong I've run zero squad lists plenty, but the difference now is that you will NOT table the opponent unless they are a bad player or make a bad mistake. I used to basically bank on losing a certain number of ships to a well run Rhymer or Y/B-Ball, it was the "tabling tax" you paid to squash the carriers. The result of the match would always be determined by how long the carriers took to catch and then kill. Thing is now the "Catch" might not ever happen and the pinpricks you had to endure just long enough to kill the carriers (or enough of them to render the squads moot) can easily overwhelm. Don't underestimate bomber command (and even worse, overlapping bomber command), I can't even count how many tie bomber blanks saved my ass when running squadronless, now you can't get as much help from that and believe me I made a point of watching the effect BC had on the 15 games I watched on Saturday and good lord the number of times that black die rolled blank on TBs or scurgs and then became a hit/crit or hell even a hit was eye-opening. So much so that the next day I went out and bought a 5th imp fighter pack to see what 9 tie bombers with rhymer could do!

I think that squadronless builds are doable even in a Wave 4 meta. They won't be a major force, but they'll be there and they'll be competitive. The way I see it is once major carriers are killed, bombers are much less effective and with the right type of fleet one can win on points even without tabling opponent.

I agree. FFG keeps upping the ante by making squadrons more dangerous, yes; but they're also making ships commensurately more dangerous by adding more options, too.

If you're doing the squadronless thing, though, you really need an efficient way to pop flotillas if you expect to be tabling people. And no, the front arc of an ISD-2 is probably not efficient for this purpose--if you're letting the movement of your 120+-point gunship be dictated by the location of your opponent's 18-point flotilla, he's winning.

I run squadronless all the time, but typically for any competitive event I bring at LEAST 1 squadron. If I can at least slow down a few shots then it's probably worth at least one TIE fighter.

And even if they've got Jan Ors, I can probably still drop a suicide squad just beyond range 1 of her to tie up a couple x-wings.

But they certainly aren't dead. Especially if they are highly mobile. Now if you go with a fleet of Victory Star Destroyers and no squads, you'll probably get eaten alive by a heavy squad build..... but suppose you've got a ton of CR-90 TRCs at speed 4? Once you take out their command ships they won't have a prayer of ever catching you, so even if they hide a GR-75 at the edge of the board you can run it down no problem.

Sure, the beauty of this game is that nothing is truly "dead" but naturally some things become less viable or at least lest consistently competitive.

Tournaments are in Swiss rounds and you are much more likely to place high and win if you are consistent and the advantage of the scatter carrier philosophy is that no matter what you face you are highly unlikely to get tabled, even a counter-squadron build will likely grind to a stalemate.

All this being said I have a couple of squadronless builds i'm still going to try out