All we are left with is a card who's effect is clear by the rules.

Soz mang, totally disagree with this sentiment, which is why we are discussing it.

I'll bet a Flotilla expansion that the effect is NOT optional in function. Any takers? Its open to anyone. First three takers.

All we are left with is a card who's effect is clear by the rules.

Soz mang, totally disagree with this sentiment, which is why we are discussing it.

I'll bet a Flotilla expansion that the effect is NOT optional in function. Any takers? Its open to anyone. First three takers.

I'll bet you a flotilla expansion that I agree with you.

But that's a pretty bad bet to take.

Read the definition of "while" in the RRG under effects and timings.

A "while" effect *can* be resolved...

"Can" is optional.

Yep, we'll see what FFG says in the FAQ.

Lol. Nobody is arguing what they may change in the future. The question is what is the rule now. Anything beyond RAW is speculation until they publish a change.

And the RAW has been debated, too.

I'ma just sit here like:

And the RAW has been debated, too.

All I've seen is people using a colloquial definition for while instead of the RRG and people confusing upgrade cards for all other cards.

In the tub thinking:

"Jamming Field: While a squadron at distance 1-2 is attacking or defending against a squadron, the attack is treated as obstructed."

"Resolving an upgrade card effect is optional unless otherwise specified. All other card effects are mandatory unless otherwise specified ." (pg.5)

To me, Optional resolving means 'not forced to PAY COST to use' ie Base Critical, Dodonna's Pride, and H9 Turbolasers. What is being overlooked is the second sentence, " All other card effects are mandatory unless otherwise specified ". In this case, it neither says may or may not...it does say IS though. (Pun: The interpretation of the rule depends on what the definition of IS, is.)

More to the point, if this were supposed to be toggleable, there would be no instance in where I would want it ON when MY squadrons were attacking, and the wording would have simply referred to "Your opponents/nonfriendly/enemy squadrons".

My bubbles are on Jamming Field always being on based off the above, the point cost, and gut gaming instincts.

Of course I've been known to be wrong...from time to time.

Put me down for RAW I think it is optional, but I also expect that there will be an FAQ/Errata to change it.

So I think you are right about intent*, but I think they screwed up the implementation and made it optional. So either they leave it and laugh about it, or fix it.

* - If I had to guess. The fact that the article with it plays like it is mandatory makes me think it may actually be optional, given that FFG has a history of screwing up the rules in their articles.

And the RAW has been debated, too.

Can you explain how RAW can be read as mandatory?

All I've seen is people using a colloquial definition for while instead of the RRG and people confusing upgrade cards for all other cards.

You'll have to ask someone who says RAW is optional.

And those things still count as debate, which is what I said. Not that forum consensus necessarily means anything.

And those things still count as debate, which is what I said. Not that forum consensus necessarily means anything.

According to FFGs own Flowchart for Rules Resolution - it does.

Because you should only contact FFG if a question is not answered on the Forums.

I meant that despite possibly consensus, they can still do whatever they want.

I think we had all agreed on XI7/AP for like 2 weeks. Then they changed it (against the RAW).

That lasted a little while, then they changed it again.

Why is everyone stopping at the first sentence of the two sentence bullet from EFFECT USE AND TIMING?

The second sentence sells it to me..." All other card effects are mandatory unless otherwise specified" . Isn't it OBVIOUS! /rage lol, jk.

Good discussion though. The intensity tells me there is a lot of love for the game.

I meant that despite possibly consensus, they can still do whatever they want.

I think we had all agreed on XI7/AP for like 2 weeks. Then they changed it (against the RAW).

That lasted a little while, then they changed it again.

.

Ya, that baffled me for sure. But they are only Human, unlike us Gamebots. All my electronics are on the inside, which allow me to overindulge in my bathing habits.

Why is everyone stopping at the first sentence of the two sentence bullet from EFFECT USE AND TIMING?

The second sentence sells it to me..." All other card effects are mandatory unless otherwise specified" . Isn't it OBVIOUS! /rage lol, jk.

Good discussion though. The intensity tells me there is a lot of love for the game.

Read the definition of "while" in the RRG under effects and timings.

A "while" effect *can* be resolved...

"Can" is optional.

except it says while, because Jamming field has a radius of effect, so while you are inside it, you are subject to its rules text, and while you are not inside it, you are not.

It is not "while attacking you may spend to reroll."

" While a squadron at distance 1-2 is attacking or defending against a squadron, the attack is treated as obstructed"

While a squadron is at distance 1-2, can you be inside it? can you be outside it? so while is a can effect, without the rest of the text being optional. If you are inside it, and you're attacking or defending, that attack is obstructed.

The stuff you are all quoting from the rule book is for Officer slot upgrades, or Support slot, where you can chose to resolve something or not resolve it, you are not forced to. where as X-17s TL always apply to an attack, you cannot chose not to have it work, your ship is upgraded to carry X-17 Turbolasers. Same deal with a Jamming Field.

Or they would simply have said, "While enemy squadrons are inside radius 1-2 all defending squadrons are treated as obstructed."

Read the definition of "while" in the RRG under effects and timings.

A "while" effect *can* be resolved...

"Can" is optional.

except it says while, because Jamming field has a radius of effect, so while you are inside it, you are subject to its rules text, and while you are not inside it, you are not.

It is not "while attacking you may spend to reroll."

" While a squadron at distance 1-2 is attacking or defending against a squadron, the attack is treated as obstructed"

While a squadron is at distance 1-2, can you be inside it? can you be outside it? so while is a can effect, without the rest of the text being optional. If you are inside it, and you're attacking or defending, that attack is obstructed.

Wait, what? Re-read the clause you quoted, my man, because it explicitly does say "while attacking". Of all the things that are less than clear about this card, the meaning of the word "while" is not among them...

The stuff you are all quoting from the rule book is for Officer slot upgrades, or Support slot, where you can chose to resolve something or not resolve it, you are not forced to. where as X-17s TL always apply to an attack, you cannot chose not to have it work, your ship is upgraded to carry X-17 Turbolasers. Same deal with a Jamming Field.

Basis? Because none of that is in my RRG.

Common sense goes out the window?

Any card can now be optional? what is the point of actually wording cards to be optional? if everything is optional?

Maybe you do have a different RRG.

We aren't reading english, we are parsing rules. I get that a colloquial reading gets you to your understanding of the effect, but you need to treat "while" as a keyword. Keywords have very precise usages. "While" is a conditional with an optional effect. "When" is a conditional with an automatic effect. So for your interpretation, FFG would have needed to use "When" instead of "While". BTW having "may" in a "while" effect is redundant.

Additionally Upgrade Cards are optional by default. JF does not explicitly state otherwise.

To get your interpretation the card would need to read:

"When a squadron at distance 1-2 is attacking or defending against a squadron, the attack must be treated as obstructed"

*note that I had to make two edits to address each route to it being optional.

We aren't reading english, we are parsing rules. I get that a colloquial reading gets you to your understanding of the effect, but you need to treat "while" as a keyword. Keywords have very precise usages. "While" is a conditional with an optional effect. "When" is a conditional with an automatic effect. So for your interpretation, FFG would have needed to use "When" instead of "While". BTW having "may" in a "while" effect is redundant.

Additionally Upgrade Cards are optional by default. JF does not explicitly state otherwise.

To get your interpretation the card would need to read:

"When a squadron at distance 1-2 is attacking or defending against a squadron, the attack must be treated as obstructed"

*note that I had to make two edits to address each route to it being optional.

While can be a keyword, but there is a before on G-8 that is not a before keyword.

And usually While is paired with may, the while tells you when you can apply the effect, except there is no "may" it just states that if you are inside the effect, you are affected by it.

And you still aren't answering why it does not simply say enemy squadrons.

"When and While" are interesting... because they are TIMING matters, as well as potentially Option/Not Optional matters...

To Quote::


• A “when” effect occurs at the moment that the specified event occurs and cannot occur again for that instance of the event.

• A “while” effect can be resolved during the specified event and cannot occur again during that instance of the event.

To Consider:

Boba Fett.

Here is the Diffrence...

Boba Fett is "When". "When you Activate"... This means that Boba Fett deals his point of Damage at the start of his activation. So the Enemy must be there at the start of his activation...

Oh, and I did ask FFG a while back, and their answer to a question was - if there is only Friendlies in Range of Boba Fett, you cannot damage them... In fact, his ability is optional in that case... (I was going to use Boba to hurt a friendly Bossk, y'see)...

If Boba Fett in Slave one was "While"... "While activating"... That would mean you could deal his point of Damage any time during his Activation.. . Which could be After Moving... Which could be after Shooting.. Which could be after Moving AND Shooting...

Which changes Boba Fett's ability dramatically ...

And you still aren't answering why it does not simply say enemy squadrons.

And if they want to change it to work that way they need an errata.

Also note that Boba Fett is a squad card, so the effect is mandatory unless specified.

And you still aren't answering why it does not simply say enemy squadrons.

Because it doesn't change the effect. It supports speculation that they made a mistake in the wording. I have already agreed that is a possibility.

And if they want to change it to work that way they need an errata.

Also note that Boba Fett is a squad card, so the effect is mandatory unless specified.

And the Email I have from FFG stating that its Optional is.........?

Oh, and I did ask FFG a while back, and their answer to a question was - if there is only Friendlies in Range of Boba Fett, you cannot damage them... In fact, his ability is optional in that case... (I was going to use Boba to hurt a friendly Bossk, y'see)...

http://starwars-armada.wikia.com/wiki/Boba_Fett_Slave_I

Boba Fett's ability specifies an enemy ship or squadron. This is why you cannot damage a friendly. It is conditional, not optional (e.g. even if you had enemies around you, you could not pick a friendly and damage them, per the wording on the card, because the enemy has to be chosen).

I do not think these are equivalent situations.

Oh, and I did ask FFG a while back, and their answer to a question was - if there is only Friendlies in Range of Boba Fett, you cannot damage them... In fact, his ability is optional in that case... (I was going to use Boba to hurt a friendly Bossk, y'see)...

http://starwars-armada.wikia.com/wiki/Boba_Fett_Slave_I

Boba Fett's ability specifies an enemy ship or squadron. This is why you cannot damage a friendly. It is conditional, not optional (e.g. even if you had enemies around you, you could not pick a friendly and damage them, per the wording on the card, because the enemy has to be chosen).

I do not think these are equivalent situations.

Oh, I'm well aware.

Two Part Question was asked.

Yes, they did Clarify that it was "Enemy Ship" and "Enemy Squadron", rather than "Enemy Ship" and "Squadron" (no enemy specified)...

The Second was wether it had to be used to damage an enemy, potentially finishing them off, when instead, I may want to use them as a Ram-Brake for a Ship Activation.

That was stated to be optional.

IN EITHER CASE.

It won't ever be in an FAQ, because I'm pretty sure I'm the only person who asked said questions... And I am hardly a Frequent asker...

...

No, actually, that's a lie.

I've totally asked MULTIPLE TIMES about my Hyperspace Assault Question since November Last Year, and not got a Response yet... ::pout::