Been over since Tlts set the floor at ps 2 rather than fat Han levels

but autothrusting autohumping and regenning aces said "nope, mate"

so nope, TLTs settled the floor for PWTs.

Not really. Personally had little issue dealing with high ps but stupidly predictable rebel regenerators

Even ran into my local groups top player during store champs, running the beaver worlds winner. Poe just melted to warden and Miranda fire

And then ran into Poe again during the next store champ and he got murdered by OL and deathrain then again I'm the only one crazy enough to run conners it seems

Rebel Regen doesn't care about ps, you need to deal with the regen itself

Speaking of worlds, Nathan carried with his ps 1 prototype and got stonewalled by heavers single ps 1 and triple ps TWO

Well, I've already driven all the ace-munchers from local meta, the YV-666 Trunk'o'Doom is a local meme of sorts.

But a new threat arises, every imperial ALL OF A SUDDEN "has always been a fan of defender lore and miniatures"

and I haven't yet come up with a solution to the triple-actioning Ryad&Vessery+something

And honestly, if you remember wave 5 at all, that's far and away for the best

Quoted for the truth.

Popular for as long as,old Han was

Ie right until there are lists that aren't trivially beaten by him

which has been the case for 2 waves now

If aces were the only defining leg of the meta we wouldn't have moved beyond wave 7. Other lists exist and they will ruin him Palp aces or no

As currently spoiled or seen from the teaser image, the rehashed yt1300 will have precisely 0 impact on the meta. They'd need to give Han an absolutely absurd game breaking ability to change that

And honestly, if you remember wave 5 at all, that's far and away for the best

I think people are judging the new ships a little early.

First off the new falcon will be able to take an illicit, so that means rebels will be able to use black market slicer tools. Imp aces will not like that. Second do we know what the other pilots are, and their abilities? I think Rey had a nice ability, so can't remember for sure, and what about the crew and other upgrades, and also the falcons new title.

To say it's dead on arrival, is a little go early to say. I personally don't think itll be DOA. Not compared to other ships like the punisher, scyke, and karhaxz fighter

In order to use that Illicit, you have to give up Engine Upgrade, and if you're spending more than half of your list on the likes of Han you probably have better uses for your action than a 50% chance to do 1 damage to an ace. Now, the generic with BMST might have a role if he's cheap enough.

While Rey's pilot ability is nothing special (not enough to fix Falcon's problems anyway) I personally think there's something good coming for Rebels in HotR. I doubt FFG bases their HotR sale hopes exclusively on guys wanting a square dish Falcon paperweight to sit next to their round dish Falcon paperweight.

another big thing about Han is that his bull defenses from when he was all the rage just don't really work anymore, and not just v TLTs or plasma torps

tailgunner arcs ruin his **** (they also ruin dengaroo, though ) but so too does

Zuckuss (4-lom if v ole MF title)

Crackshot

Juke

they'd seriously need to break the **** out of his pilot ability for him to have a glimmer of hope

Condition: Han Solo ALWAYS SHOOTS FIRST! (regardless of initative bid.)

Asajj Ventress is another pilot that is following what seems to be a new FFG direction of giving lower PS pilots outstanding abilities. Hopefully it keeps up.

It may be muted for a while, but PS wars will come again, especially as FFG puts it "new focus on arcs". More interestingly, I wanted to see if pilots like Quickdraw who can shoot outside of combat phase would affect PS bid going forward.

Popular for as long as,old Han was

Ie right until there are lists that aren't trivially beaten by him

which has been the case for 2 waves now

If aces were the only defining leg of the meta we wouldn't have moved beyond wave 7. Other lists exist and they will ruin him Palp aces or no

As currently spoiled or seen from the teaser image, the rehashed yt1300 will have precisely 0 impact on the meta. They'd need to give Han an absolutely absurd game breaking ability to change that

And honestly, if you remember wave 5 at all, that's far and away for the best

I think people are judging the new ships a little early.

First off the new falcon will be able to take an illicit, so that means rebels will be able to use black market slicer tools. Imp aces will not like that. Second do we know what the other pilots are, and their abilities? I think Rey had a nice ability, so can't remember for sure, and what about the crew and other upgrades, and also the falcons new title.

To say it's dead on arrival, is a little go early to say. I personally don't think itll be DOA. Not compared to other ships like the punisher, scyke, and karhaxz fighter

the falcon isn't a new ship , it's been around since wave 2 (so March 2013) and it's had almost a year of competitive dominance and now almost a year of competitive utter worthlessness

nothing thus far spoiled changes its playstyle to any significant degree, especially not the EU removing smuggler compartment which just makes it an overpriced illicit slot without re-positioning capabilities

like I already said, Han needs a broken ass ability to ever see competitive table time

why you'd ever want to see him again is another matter entirely

Been over since Tlts set the floor at ps 2 rather than fat Han levels

but autothrusting autohumping and regenning aces said "nope, mate"

so nope, TLTs settled the floor for PWTs.

Not really. Personally had little issue dealing with high ps but stupidly predictable rebel regenerators

Even ran into my local groups top player during store champs, running the beaver worlds winner. Poe just melted to warden and Miranda fire

And then ran into Poe again during the next store champ and he got murdered by OL and deathrain then again I'm the only one crazy enough to run conners it seems

Rebel Regen doesn't care about ps, you need to deal with the regen itself

Speaking of worlds, Nathan carried with his ps 1 prototype and got stonewalled by heavers single ps 1 and triple ps TWO

Well, I've already driven all the ace-munchers from local meta, the YV-666 Trunk'o'Doom is a local meme of sorts.

But a new threat arises, every imperial ALL OF A SUDDEN "has always been a fan of defender lore and miniatures"

and I haven't yet come up with a solution to the triple-actioning Ryad&Vessery+something

I need to test my Ketsu/Latts list against ryad and vessery. Triple actions are a lot less scary when they're at -2 agility for both of my shots and latts has bossk/gunner to REALLY make sure the second shot hits (-3 agility with her ability if ketsu hit her attack for 2 tractor tokens).

Been over since Tlts set the floor at ps 2 rather than fat Han levels

but autothrusting autohumping and regenning aces said "nope, mate"

so nope, TLTs settled the floor for PWTs.

Not really. Personally had little issue dealing with high ps but stupidly predictable rebel regenerators

Even ran into my local groups top player during store champs, running the beaver worlds winner. Poe just melted to warden and Miranda fire

And then ran into Poe again during the next store champ and he got murdered by OL and deathrain then again I'm the only one crazy enough to run conners it seems

Rebel Regen doesn't care about ps, you need to deal with the regen itself

Speaking of worlds, Nathan carried with his ps 1 prototype and got stonewalled by heavers single ps 1 and triple ps TWO

Well, I've already driven all the ace-munchers from local meta, the YV-666 Trunk'o'Doom is a local meme of sorts.

But a new threat arises, every imperial ALL OF A SUDDEN "has always been a fan of defender lore and miniatures"

and I haven't yet come up with a solution to the triple-actioning Ryad&Vessery+something

I need to test my Ketsu/Latts list against ryad and vessery. Triple actions are a lot less scary when they're at -2 agility for both of my shots and latts has bossk/gunner to REALLY make sure the second shot hits (-3 agility with her ability if ketsu hit her attack for 2 tractor tokens).

Can't say for sure, but a ton of tokens and a TL every turn is a pain in the arse, and they eat my YV-666 in a moment's notice. Maybe the arc-rotation will work against their predictable nature, can't say for sure. But YV and it's eternal struggle with asteroids and turning is...troubling v_v

Been over since Tlts set the floor at ps 2 rather than fat Han levels

but autothrusting autohumping and regenning aces said "nope, mate"

so nope, TLTs settled the floor for PWTs.

Not really. Personally had little issue dealing with high ps but stupidly predictable rebel regenerators

Even ran into my local groups top player during store champs, running the beaver worlds winner. Poe just melted to warden and Miranda fire

And then ran into Poe again during the next store champ and he got murdered by OL and deathrain then again I'm the only one crazy enough to run conners it seems

Rebel Regen doesn't care about ps, you need to deal with the regen itself

Speaking of worlds, Nathan carried with his ps 1 prototype and got stonewalled by heavers single ps 1 and triple ps TWO

Well, I've already driven all the ace-munchers from local meta, the YV-666 Trunk'o'Doom is a local meme of sorts.

But a new threat arises, every imperial ALL OF A SUDDEN "has always been a fan of defender lore and miniatures"

and I haven't yet come up with a solution to the triple-actioning Ryad&Vessery+something

I need to test my Ketsu/Latts list against ryad and vessery. Triple actions are a lot less scary when they're at -2 agility for both of my shots and latts has bossk/gunner to REALLY make sure the second shot hits (-3 agility with her ability if ketsu hit her attack for 2 tractor tokens).

Can't say for sure, but a ton of tokens and a TL every turn is a pain in the arse, and they eat my YV-666 in a moment's notice. Maybe the arc-rotation will work against their predictable nature, can't say for sure. But YV and it's eternal struggle with asteroids and turning is...troubling v_v

I played the ketsu/latts list against a triple imperial aces list - whisper, inqiusitor, omega leader. Killed Omega Leader round 1 (2 hits and a crit from ketsu after his evade token, then finished him with latts). Blocked whisper with ketsu round 2 to traactor her off and one-shot her (2 hits and a direct hit crit), then spent a few rounds turning ketsu around since Inquis was behind her, got him at range 1, killed him ine one round of shooting as well. A focus and evade token don't do nearly as much good when you have 1 agility and you're being shot by 4 attack dice.

I personally believe that the easiest, most effective way to end the "PS wars" is to save the best pilot skills for mid-PS instead of high PS. Giving high PS pilots too many good things makes it a little difficult to counter them. Mid-PS would be powerful but still kept in check by high PS and their ability to outmaneuver and fire first.

I don't believe the PS wars will EVER be over.

The option to know what actions to take

and

The ability to shoot first potentially preventing a shot back will always drive PS up.

Even though I flew Ryad and Vessery at GenCon, when it mattered the Initiative Bid was critical but the majority of the time I was just out PS'ed and that sucked.

However, I will concede that there is some middle ground of late that might make a FEW lower PS interesting to play.

Has there been a fundamental shift or is it that people are willing to break from the "meta" and play with more variety now that more variety is an valid option? Just curious.

Has there been a fundamental shift or is it that people are willing to break from the "meta" and play with more variety now that more variety is an valid option? Just curious.

I think it is that the meta itself is more diverse than it was a couple of waves ago. The PS arms race was really triggered by Whisper and that Fat-Han was a counter to that. MOV on large ships and the FAQing of Phantoms has ironed these 2 out quite a bit while Scum has brought more variety to the table.

I am not saying PS is worthless, far from it. It has always been a valuable attribute (there is a reason VI and Adaptability are 2 of the most popular EPTs). But the rise middle-PS pilots with some great abilities as well as some cool PS8 Aces means that a wider range of PS values are playable. It is no longer a case of "go 9+ or fly a swarm". There are several tiers to consider. Scouts and Lothal Rebels at PS3 are an important tier and that has made the PS4 generics look more appealing. Ryad, Vessery, Kanan and probably a few others are tasty in the 5-6 range and in turn can trample generics. OL, Carnor, Wes, Inquisitor and Corran are all PS8 but are made viable by great pilot abilities. And for the times when you really need to move last and shoot first, we still have the old favourites of Soontir, VI Vader and the forthcoming Poe9.

The PS Wars were there because you had ships that you basically couldn't get a shot at if you had a lower PS. That is....Soontir Fel would use his PTL and Boost/Barrel Roll to get into a spot that you couldn't fire at him. Or...only one ship could fire at him. The Tie Phantom used ACD to fire and then cloak. If you didn't have a high PS to then adjust with your own Boost/Barrel Roll...or fire before the Phantom cloaked, then you could lose your whole list to a ship with a higher PS than you.

There are a lot of things that now hurt PTL Arc Dodgers. The idea is that there will be a lot less of these on the tables.

Will it always be better to have a high PS and fire first? Of course. Dengar is good at PS 9 and he's dangerous. He's not an arc dodger, though. You will get to shoot at him...unless he kills you first. It will still be good to have a higher PS, but it won't be necessary to get a shot at someone (unless you are dead first).

So....the idea of perhaps PTL Arc Dodgers being seen a lot less is a viable one and I think now it might not be as important to only go with the PS 8+ ships.

Will it always be better to have a high PS and fire first?

not when ACTION mines are involved that can damage and affect ships before they've even activcated

so start pressing FFG for more of those

Will it always be better to have a high PS and fire first?

not when ACTION mines are involved that can damage and affect ships before they've even activcated

so start pressing FFG for more of those

and more BOMBS in particular. you know, the cool things that promote unpredictability, have a great mechanic and still didn't git gud.

hope FFG will make us a "bombs away" pack with bombers one per faction and goodies for bombs.

More bombs would be cool. Also, I think there should always be a counter to everything in the game. So, action Bombs being good vs. higher PS ships is excellent.

Will it always be better to have a high PS and fire first?

not when ACTION mines are involved that can damage and affect ships before they've even activcated

so start pressing FFG for more of those

Yeah, and not those stupid Cluster Mines - all my opponent ever rolls are crits and blanks

Dice on something as maneuver/skill dependent as bombs is just the most insulting thing I can imagine

Regarding the new Defender expansion. I wonder if people are underestimating the PS factor of those pilots. Maarek doesn´t seem to receive any love, yet you can boost him up to PS9 with VI. With the x7 title, he´s a PS9 in a very capable combat ship for only 34 points. Barrel roll at PS9 used to be something worthwhile. With Palp on the board Maarek´s ability might even come into play.

I liked the Ace meta. There were a whole lot more small ships on the board and I could still take a top spot with T-65 pure squads.

I haven't been able to do that in over a year now which is just maddening to me. I'm more angry about the multiple Large Ships being more effective at dog fighting than actual fighters.

Regarding the new Defender expansion. I wonder if people are underestimating the PS factor of those pilots. Maarek doesn´t seem to receive any love, yet you can boost him up to PS9 with VI. With the x7 title, he´s a PS9 in a very capable combat ship for only 34 points. Barrel roll at PS9 used to be something worthwhile. With Palp on the board Maarek´s ability might even come into play.

ner no one's underestimating it

they're just great ships that don't really care about PS one way or the other because the white 4k lets them venture places where other ships either can't (esp ptl aces) or just don't want to because they can't trade well with x7 defenders

besides defenders aren't soontir fels, they don't arcdodge as well and they don't need to

I dunno... Higher PS sucks to fly against, but I went 1-2 today with Dual Phantoms + Blocker against PS10 X-Wings so...

The only real reason I lost was because I'd gotten my attack vectors wrong. You have to arc dodge the higher PS and it can be a little tricky to pull off. Even more so when a mistaken approach means you have 2 unmodified defense dice, and that can mean death in a single volley for a Phantom. So basically you lose to the higher PS because you get out-flown is what I'm saying!

Feels good to pull off that win though! It really is great to beat your list's hard counter.