So playing with the new meta I discovered a flaw in my love of fireballs. Running two gozantis with expanded hanger bays and bomber command centers, it's possible to run a rhymerball consisting of Rhymer and 5 tie bombers at the price of two and a half firesprays plus Rhymer. This allows six individual attacks instead of three and has the potential to land 12 damage in two activations with the double re-roll making those doubles show up more.

Curious about your thoughts.

Also run this with jumpmasters or else it's just a mess lol.

Flotillas make non rogues great, but there will be places you dont want the flotillas to go.

That said rhymer doesnt go near ships anyway

I think the problem you'll run into there is that even a light fighter screen will give you trouble. A Jumpmaster or Dengar is great and all, but a handful of fighters can kill either, and now your Bombers are locked down for several turns or even the rest of the game. You want to have at least one Escort in there to keep your Intel bubble running long enough for the Bombers to escape. But now you have eight squadrons (five Bombers, Rhymer, Intel ship and an Advanced/Vader) with a Squadron value of six. You can dedicate another ship to carrier detail, but that's either paying another 23 points for a Gozanti or forcing something that should be a gunship to pull double duty. Or you could have two of your ships fly in the Squadron phase, which is fine for the first round, but forces you into difficult situations later. Or you could swap two Bombers for Intel and Escort, but that reduces your use of the 16pts invested in BCC. I was a heavy user of Rhymer in wave two, and I've tried so many different tweaks to maximize bombing potential with anti-squadron capabilities, and I haven't found a great one yet.

Now, against a no-squadron list, that build could really cash in. But against a sprinkling of YT-2400s, A-Wings or even TIE Fighters/Interceptors, your 135+ point investment will not get the chance to do what it's designed to do.

All of this is why you won't see the Fireball go away. People who don't want to go whole hog into a massive squadron investment can use a single Gozanti with Expanded Hangars and BCC to push Rhymer, Jumpmaster/Dengar and an Advanced/Vader while flying alongside two Firesprays which will have only a slightly lower average damage than four TIE Bombers.

But I wouldn't talk someone out of going whole hog. Go for it! I just haven't found a points-to-productivity ratio that I've liked yet outside of my wave two triple Vic bomber list.

Just popping in to remind you guys that TIE bombers have better anti-squadron per point than Firesprays...

Pretty sure BombingCC Doesn't stack? Isn't it one reroll per trigger up to unlimited number of reroll's if you have differing triggers for it.

Pretty sure BombingCC Doesn't stack? Isn't it one reroll per trigger up to unlimited number of reroll's if you have differing triggers for it.

the devs have already said it stacks.

by the rules you can have as many re-rolls as you have sources to trigger them.

for non-unique cards having the same name does not matter its a different source.

Pretty sure BombingCC Doesn't stack? Isn't it one reroll per trigger up to unlimited number of reroll's if you have differing triggers for it.

the devs have already said it stacks.

by the rules you can have as many re-rolls as you have sources to trigger them.

for non-unique cards having the same name does not matter its a different source.

From Rules Reference:

"A "while" effect can be resolved during the specified event and cannot occur again during the instance of the event"

BCC : "While a friendly squadron with bomber at distance 1-5 is attacking a ship it may reroll 1 die"

So no, they do NOT stack.

Pretty sure BombingCC Doesn't stack? Isn't it one reroll per trigger up to unlimited number of reroll's if you have differing triggers for it.

the devs have already said it stacks.

by the rules you can have as many re-rolls as you have sources to trigger them.

for non-unique cards having the same name does not matter its a different source.

From Rules Reference:

"A "while" effect can be resolved during the specified event and cannot occur again during the instance of the event"

BCC : "While a friendly squadron with bomber at distance 1-5 is attacking a ship it may reroll 1 die"

So no, they do NOT stack.

Go to the rules forum. Tench speaks the truth. Each individual card cannot happen twice.

Pretty sure BombingCC Doesn't stack? Isn't it one reroll per trigger up to unlimited number of reroll's if you have differing triggers for it.

the devs have already said it stacks.

by the rules you can have as many re-rolls as you have sources to trigger them.

for non-unique cards having the same name does not matter its a different source.

From Rules Reference:

"A "while" effect can be resolved during the specified event and cannot occur again during the instance of the event"

BCC : "While a friendly squadron with bomber at distance 1-5 is attacking a ship it may reroll 1 die"

So no, they do NOT stack.

what you are quote is the rule that a non-exhausting card can't be used indefinably.

so if you have one BCC then you can only re-roll once, but if you have two in range you can re-roll twice.

The only way I see the fireball going away is if TIE Defenders have an amazing dice pool and are cheaper then firesprays

Pretty sure BombingCC Doesn't stack? Isn't it one reroll per trigger up to unlimited number of reroll's if you have differing triggers for it.

the devs have already said it stacks.

by the rules you can have as many re-rolls as you have sources to trigger them.

for non-unique cards having the same name does not matter its a different source.

From Rules Reference:

"A "while" effect can be resolved during the specified event and cannot occur again during the instance of the event"

BCC : "While a friendly squadron with bomber at distance 1-5 is attacking a ship it may reroll 1 die"

So no, they do NOT stack.

So by your logic then, 2 Interdictors cant both use Target Scramblers against the same attack

Honestly, I foresee Defenders being 4 blue anti-squad, one black anti-ship. So, basically a non-Rogue YT-2400 with Bomber and increased speed. And if that's the case, I'd field a good three or four in every battle, especially considering how nasty 2400s are. The only drawback is that you need a ship to push them around. But they are faster than Bombers, with more hull, likely better Anti-Squadron abilities, and the same anti-ship damage. They won't rely as heavily on Escorts or other fighters to win the squadron battle.

Honestly, I foresee Defenders being 4 blue anti-squad, one black anti-ship. So, basically a non-Rogue YT-2400 with Bomber and increased speed. And if that's the case, I'd field a good three or four in every battle, especially considering how nasty 2400s are. The only drawback is that you need a ship to push them around. But they are faster than Bombers, with more hull, likely better Anti-Squadron abilities, and the same anti-ship damage. They won't rely as heavily on Escorts or other fighters to win the squadron battle.

Honestly, I foresee Defenders being 4 blue anti-squad, one black anti-ship. So, basically a non-Rogue YT-2400 with Bomber and increased speed. And if that's the case, I'd field a good three or four in every battle, especially considering how nasty 2400s are. The only drawback is that you need a ship to push them around. But they are faster than Bombers, with more hull, likely better Anti-Squadron abilities, and the same anti-ship damage. They won't rely as heavily on Escorts or other fighters to win the squadron battle.

The feel like 20 point squadrons though. Maybe even 23 points each which means they will force you to give up a Gozanti just for one squadron.

Honestly, I foresee Defenders being 4 blue anti-squad, one black anti-ship. So, basically a non-Rogue YT-2400 with Bomber and increased speed. And if that's the case, I'd field a good three or four in every battle, especially considering how nasty 2400s are. The only drawback is that you need a ship to push them around. But they are faster than Bombers, with more hull, likely better Anti-Squadron abilities, and the same anti-ship damage. They won't rely as heavily on Escorts or other fighters to win the squadron battle.

The feel like 20 point squadrons though. Maybe even 23 points each which means they will force you to give up a Gozanti just for one squadron.

I don't see them being that expensive given they have just one more speed and hull over the tie bomber. I mean b-wings have a fantastic dice pool and are 14 points so I don't see defenders being to far over 14

Yeah, but I would pay 20 points for a speed 5 B-wing. I feel like you're under-valuing the fastest speed in the game. Speed 2 vs speed 5 is a seriously big deal.

Honestly, I foresee Defenders being 4 blue anti-squad, one black anti-ship. So, basically a non-Rogue YT-2400 with Bomber and increased speed. And if that's the case, I'd field a good three or four in every battle, especially considering how nasty 2400s are. The only drawback is that you need a ship to push them around. But they are faster than Bombers, with more hull, likely better Anti-Squadron abilities, and the same anti-ship damage. They won't rely as heavily on Escorts or other fighters to win the squadron battle.

The feel like 20 point squadrons though. Maybe even 23 points each which means they will force you to give up a Gozanti just for one squadron.

I don't see them being that expensive given they have just one more speed and hull over the tie bomber. I mean b-wings have a fantastic dice pool and are 14 points so I don't see defenders being to far over 14

Yeah, but I would pay 20 points for a speed 5 B-wing. I feel like you're under-valuing the fastest speed in the game. Speed 2 vs speed 5 is a seriously big deal.

Even better than defenders I'm looking forward to decimators and rhymer lol. Going back to topic too, 99% sure bcc stacks(there was a long forum discussion back when they were announced). Also I usually run this list with 2 tie advanced, a jumpmaster, and mauler, it keeps the bombers free and happy. It also couples nicely with a light DemSU. Usually 1 glad/demo, and two raiders.

Geez decimators are just small capital ships

Just popping in to remind you guys that TIE bombers have better anti-squadron per point than Firesprays...

Not really. 2 black dice is 1.5 damage, 3 blues are 1.5 damage. The black dice can chip away at brace aces better maybe since it's 2 seperate attacks, but the blue will occasionally have an acc. that matters with a couple damage. Flight controllers would do more with the bombers of course.

Honestly, I foresee Defenders being 4 blue anti-squad, one black anti-ship. So, basically a non-Rogue YT-2400 with Bomber and increased speed. And if that's the case, I'd field a good three or four in every battle, especially considering how nasty 2400s are. The only drawback is that you need a ship to push them around. But they are faster than Bombers, with more hull, likely better Anti-Squadron abilities, and the same anti-ship damage. They won't rely as heavily on Escorts or other fighters to win the squadron battle.

The feel like 20 point squadrons though. Maybe even 23 points each which means they will force you to give up a Gozanti just for one squadron.

I don't see them being that expensive given they have just one more speed and hull over the tie bomber. I mean b-wings have a fantastic dice pool and are 14 points so I don't see defenders being to far over 14

Yeah, but I would pay 20 points for a speed 5 B-wing. I feel like you're under-valuing the fastest speed in the game. Speed 2 vs speed 5 is a seriously big deal.

Ard would pony up 20 points, a bottle of johnny walker blue, a little something under the table and a player to be named later for a speed 5 B wing.

Only to be outbid by Truthiness later.

Just popping in to remind you guys that TIE bombers have better anti-squadron per point than Firesprays...

Not really. 2 black dice is 1.5 damage, 3 blues are 1.5 damage. The black dice can chip away at brace aces better maybe since it's 2 seperate attacks, but the blue will occasionally have an acc. that matters with a couple damage. Flight controllers would do more with the bombers of course.

You pretty much made the case for me. Two single damage is harder to defend against than one double, generally speaking.

Just popping in to remind you guys that TIE bombers have better anti-squadron per point than Firesprays...

Not really. 2 black dice is 1.5 damage, 3 blues are 1.5 damage. The black dice can chip away at brace aces better maybe since it's 2 seperate attacks, but the blue will occasionally have an acc. that matters with a couple damage. Flight controllers would do more with the bombers of course.

Just popping in to remind you guys that TIE bombers have better anti-squadron per point than Firesprays...

Not really. 2 black dice is 1.5 damage, 3 blues are 1.5 damage. The black dice can chip away at brace aces better maybe since it's 2 seperate attacks, but the blue will occasionally have an acc. that matters with a couple damage. Flight controllers would do more with the bombers of course.

bombers only have one black dice for AS

They're using the comparison of two Bombers per Firespray.

And I could see Defenders right around the same cost as Firesprays. A YT-2400 only has one less Speed, and you're swapping Rogue for Bomber. So maybe 18ish?

Just to throw in, i do feel like the 4 extra hull on 2 bombers v 1 firespray should come into it somwhere

Pretty sure BombingCC Doesn't stack? Isn't it one reroll per trigger up to unlimited number of reroll's if you have differing triggers for it.

the devs have already said it stacks.

by the rules you can have as many re-rolls as you have sources to trigger them.

for non-unique cards having the same name does not matter its a different source.

From Rules Reference:

"A "while" effect can be resolved during the specified event and cannot occur again during the instance of the event"

BCC : "While a friendly squadron with bomber at distance 1-5 is attacking a ship it may reroll 1 die"

So no, they do NOT stack.

They do stack, because although the event cannot occur again, there is no stated duration of the event. You resolve one, and then you resolve a different effect (that happens to have identical text) because the event in question has yet to conclude.