Just wondering since I really like the newer X-wings. Are they viable in the current meta? Or are they just as bad as everything else the rebels field?

They're very decent. Poe with TLT Ys to support is good.

As a middle level ship red ace isn't bad. Poe is just very good.

Use r2d2 instead of the more seemingly obvious droid

eh...competitively no not really

they're okay, but mainly they're simply overpriced for the offense they put out and apart from Poe they're really not durable

more importantly, though, they're much more fun to fly than the regular X thanks to boost and t-rolls

No, not really. During Wave 7 they were very viable and in fact i was something of an expert on T-70s considering how single-mindedly i flew them(every single list had a T-70 in it for me), but the heavy jousting meta of Wave 8 absolutely creams T-70s, as they are very very very jousting inefficient, and are practically an auto-lose against Jumps. The sheer presence of triple jumps has almost entirely eradicated them, because you WILL lose Poe in the first round of shooting, and there's basically nothing you can do about it considering you can't even kill a jump in one round with 3 T-70s.

Against Palp Aces they go even, since their capacity to regen and having decent agility characterisitics works against the low damage output list, and boost works well to keep up with the Aces. Dengaroo.... probably not a good time to bring Poe, because of the rerolls forced by zuckuss, meaning that you're usually taking full damage and Dengar gets to shoot twice against Poe, so Poe won't last long. Maybe 4 Blue Squad Novices? Eh. I doubt it's particularly very good of a matchup. That's a lot of dice, but i personally would favor a list with AGI 1 or less so that Zuckuss means less, and a high damage spike, like 4BZ. Biggs also could go a long way to preserve ships if you want to fly ships better in other matchups. For example, Norra and Thane in ARC-170s, Thane having Plasma torps, and Biggs, which ficklegreendice came up with, which is nearly an auto-win against Dengaroo.

In short, i would avoid T-70s until Wave 9. The meta is likely to change during Wave 9, AND heroes of the resistance is coming out which is bound to offer many delicious T-70 goodies.

Just about any rebel ship can be made viable through good flying and liberal application of Biggs. T-70s are no exception. But they are pricey, especially once you pay 26 points for Biggs. For example, my two favorite tanky T-70s look like this:

"Red Ace" (29)

R2-D2 (4)

Comm Relay (3)

Autothrusters (2)

Poe Dameron (31)

Veteran Instincts (1)

R5-P9 (3)

Autothrusters (2)

That's two good individual ships, built, IMO, to just about their minimum requirements. Problem is, those two ships add up to 75 points, leaving not enough room fora 26 point Biggs with R4-D6 and IA. Which means you have to make compromises on your two aces, and they become that much less effective.

It's not impossible to make them work, far from it. Three attack is fundamentally solid, six HP behind two dice isn't spectacular, but Autothrusters and regen makes it significantly better. Repositioning when needed and the option of T-Rolls means that they can be slippery at high PS (though, TBH they're a little action inefficient for that role).

So yeah, not impossible to make them work. Just hard.

Ditch VI for Adaptability on Poe, that will give you that one point you need for Biggles.

It's (viable) man I hate that term.

Why don't you try it out and see for yourself? Instead of asking in this giant pile of groupthink that only has the to extreams of over powered and not viable often separated by .5 points from some guys math formula.

You should ask what are some good ways to get the most out of the T70? (But I am a little bitter)

I find poe very strong I really like him with R5-P9 as I hate being locked to greens with R2-D2. I don't have a ton of experience with the other pilots because I rarely play rebels but I am sure someone else has help you.

If all you care about is if the forum group think thinks something is viable, then just use a netlist and don't bother trying anything yourself since that's basically what you are asking for. Ships fly differently based on individual playstyle and local meta game. I have success with ships this forums deem unviable all the time.

Sorry for my ranting.

The T70 and T65 are both on par with the crowd, but the T65 has better pilot abilities, which is letting the T65 compete in the meta, whereas the T70 only has Poe.

I found that. T-65 list just couldn't keep up with a defender list. I've actually never played vs triple jump masters but it might do alright IF you take the mustachioed hero of the rebellion.

eh...competitively no not really

they're okay, but mainly they're simply overpriced for the offense they put out and apart from Poe they're really not durable

more importantly, though, they're much more fun to fly than the regular X thanks to boost and t-rolls

No, they are definetively not overpriced. I think the word "overpriced" is used too recklessly here recently. They are priced very well.

Berto from Sling Paint would have something to say, lol.

He played a lot 4×Blue Squadron Pilot w IntegratedAstro and...R2 maybe, the one who turn 1-2 manouvres green.

It's a quiet fun list

eh...competitively no not really

they're okay, but mainly they're simply overpriced for the offense they put out and apart from Poe they're really not durable

more importantly, though, they're much more fun to fly than the regular X thanks to boost and t-rolls

No, they are definetively not overpriced. I think the word "overpriced" is used too recklessly here recently. They are priced very well.

I mean... they ARE overpriced. T-65s are overpriced and T-70s are based off of the T-65s point cost. It should cost a point or two less, just like how the T-65 should cost a point or two less. T-70s hover around high seventy low eighty percent points efficient, way worse than the T-65. T-70s ARE overpriced, it's just that it's best matchups don't involve jousting. Which is what ultimately bothers me most about Imperial ships like X/1 Advanced and X/7 Defender, is that it has very favorable matchups for nearly anything because it's both incredibly efficient AND have good HP, AND have reposition maneuvers, AND have high AGI. Ships like the T-70 only perform well in niche scenarios, which is why you don't see any in the Wave 8 meta because this is the exact counter to T-70s.

Also, one thing i've noticed that really irks me: "Anything works if you fly it well enough!"

Eh....Kind of.

However, it's the lack of specificity to this statement that is the issue. Technically yes, 3 T-70s could beat a triple jump list. That doesn't mean that the matchup against them isn't 95/5 for the jumps. What i really hear when someone says "If you fly it well enough" is "If your enemy flies poorly" or "if you get god-like dice rolls".

In reality, the triple jumps matchup is an auto-lose for T-70s. Dengaroo isn't an auto-lose, but it's easily an 80/20 for them. Palp is a 60/40 for them.

The simple truth is that out of all the mainstream lists of Wave 8, no T-70 pilot has a favorable match up. So yeah, if you "fly it well enough" you can use anything. But the truth is that in these cases, there's very, very few people that are actually capable of flying T-70s well enough to beat triple jumps, and even less that can do it consistently.

The question wasn't whether you could fly T-70s casually or not. It's whether they were viable in tournament. Frankly, no, they're not. There. That's the question answered. There's many better options in the game right now than T-70s. Don't hold out hope for "oh if i stick them with Biggs it'll be better" because the answer, while true, is that you could also stick Biggs in a squad with already decent ships and the end result is still better than using T-70s.

Not really it's less efficient than the t-65 and that's not in a good place itself.

Same issue as the fo they couldn't make the new fighters better than the classic ones so they ended up worse except for one pilot.

Woah, that escalated quickly, lol. I appreciate the discussion. I did play a lot of Poe and Ello before, then as the T-70 became less effective, I went traitor and started playing more imperial and scum.

I really hate that pretty much all rebel lists have to have Biggs to compete in anyway but the Imps have so many good ships that you can make unlimited lists. I'm hoping HOTR has something to boost both X-wings.

Depends how you play. If you're like Conandoodle and like to see a table full of 'Star Wars' .. yes, they're viable.

If you're not like Conandoodle and you want to play at a competitive level .. I'd refer to other's posts.

I have a lot of fun with Ello Asty (T-70) and PTL. Not ground breaking, not awesomest ... just fun.

I want a linked source for every statistic I see or I'm just going to ignore it. Feels like numbers are just pulled out of the aether around here nowadays.

Generally, the number you see are pulled from either Major Juggler's Jousting Values . or List Juggler tourmament results analysis

Talking just out of experience flying them (gorgeous models with fin boost and dial) they are simply lacking for their cost

They are a standard 3 red ship with bare minimum means of overcoming dice restrictions (r3a2 and regen, but they're not good at all with r3a2 compared to the cheaper Double tap y and the double arc double tap ARC)

Even Poe I've found personally underwhelming because his offense is so unimpressive

Compared to ships like the vcx (FCS 4 dice primary, automated turret; hera crew) k (tlts, autoblaster, bombs of either variety, the most underrated pilot ever in Miranda) there's not much to be impressed with regarding the t70 outside boost, its dial and Poe. None of these things can reliably carry v the defensive lunacy of aces or offensive lunacy of scouts

Fingers crossed for HOTR

Generally, the number you see are pulled from either Major Juggler's Jousting Values . or List Juggler tourmament results analysis

That first link looks very out of date now.

But the 3pts extra you pay for the T70 over the T65 pays for an extra shield, the boost action, an extra green on the dial and the option for the three talon roll.

Many things that aren't reflected in the jousting efficiency.

eh...competitively no not really

they're okay, but mainly they're simply overpriced for the offense they put out and apart from Poe they're really not durable

more importantly, though, they're much more fun to fly than the regular X thanks to boost and t-rolls

No, they are definetively not overpriced. I think the word "overpriced" is used too recklessly here recently. They are priced very well.

I mean... they ARE overpriced. T-65s are overpriced and T-70s are based off of the T-65s point cost. It should cost a point or two less, just like how the T-65 should cost a point or two less. T-70s hover around high seventy low eighty percent points efficient, way worse than the T-65. T-70s ARE overpriced, it's just that it's best matchups don't involve jousting. Which is what ultimately bothers me most about Imperial ships like X/1 Advanced and X/7 Defender, is that it has very favorable matchups for nearly anything because it's both incredibly efficient AND have good HP, AND have reposition maneuvers, AND have high AGI. Ships like the T-70 only perform well in niche scenarios, which is why you don't see any in the Wave 8 meta because this is the exact counter to T-70s.

Also, one thing i've noticed that really irks me: "Anything works if you fly it well enough!"

Eh....Kind of.

However, it's the lack of specificity to this statement that is the issue. Technically yes, 3 T-70s could beat a triple jump list. That doesn't mean that the matchup against them isn't 95/5 for the jumps. What i really hear when someone says "If you fly it well enough" is "If your enemy flies poorly" or "if you get god-like dice rolls".

In reality, the triple jumps matchup is an auto-lose for T-70s. Dengaroo isn't an auto-lose, but it's easily an 80/20 for them. Palp is a 60/40 for them.

The simple truth is that out of all the mainstream lists of Wave 8, no T-70 pilot has a favorable match up. So yeah, if you "fly it well enough" you can use anything. But the truth is that in these cases, there's very, very few people that are actually capable of flying T-70s well enough to beat triple jumps, and even less that can do it consistently.

The question wasn't whether you could fly T-70s casually or not. It's whether they were viable in tournament. Frankly, no, they're not. There. That's the question answered. There's many better options in the game right now than T-70s. Don't hold out hope for "oh if i stick them with Biggs it'll be better" because the answer, while true, is that you could also stick Biggs in a squad with already decent ships and the end result is still better than using T-70s.

What utter garbage, ignoring personal playstyle and experience is a great way to suck at this game.

For example, I am just awfull with palp aces builds, I just don't win with them. Does that mean it sucks? By contrast I have had huge success incorporating M3A's into my scum lists.

My playstyle and list building skills have a huge effect on what ships are good for me. This applies to everyone... The ships are so closely balanced that personal play style can easily change each player's power rankings of ships. If all you do is take major juggler's (who I think has done allot of harm to this game) values and ignore what you as a person can do then you are in for alot of mediocre play.

This game takes skill, and people's skills with certain ships may be better then with others.

eh...competitively no not really

they're okay, but mainly they're simply overpriced for the offense they put out and apart from Poe they're really not durable

more importantly, though, they're much more fun to fly than the regular X thanks to boost and t-rolls

No, they are definetively not overpriced. I think the word "overpriced" is used too recklessly here recently. They are priced very well.

I mean... they ARE overpriced. T-65s are overpriced and T-70s are based off of the T-65s point cost. It should cost a point or two less, just like how the T-65 should cost a point or two less. T-70s hover around high seventy low eighty percent points efficient, way worse than the T-65. T-70s ARE overpriced, it's just that it's best matchups don't involve jousting. Which is what ultimately bothers me most about Imperial ships like X/1 Advanced and X/7 Defender, is that it has very favorable matchups for nearly anything because it's both incredibly efficient AND have good HP, AND have reposition maneuvers, AND have high AGI. Ships like the T-70 only perform well in niche scenarios, which is why you don't see any in the Wave 8 meta because this is the exact counter to T-70s.

Also, one thing i've noticed that really irks me: "Anything works if you fly it well enough!"

Eh....Kind of.

However, it's the lack of specificity to this statement that is the issue. Technically yes, 3 T-70s could beat a triple jump list. That doesn't mean that the matchup against them isn't 95/5 for the jumps. What i really hear when someone says "If you fly it well enough" is "If your enemy flies poorly" or "if you get god-like dice rolls".

In reality, the triple jumps matchup is an auto-lose for T-70s. Dengaroo isn't an auto-lose, but it's easily an 80/20 for them. Palp is a 60/40 for them.

The simple truth is that out of all the mainstream lists of Wave 8, no T-70 pilot has a favorable match up. So yeah, if you "fly it well enough" you can use anything. But the truth is that in these cases, there's very, very few people that are actually capable of flying T-70s well enough to beat triple jumps, and even less that can do it consistently.

The question wasn't whether you could fly T-70s casually or not. It's whether they were viable in tournament. Frankly, no, they're not. There. That's the question answered. There's many better options in the game right now than T-70s. Don't hold out hope for "oh if i stick them with Biggs it'll be better" because the answer, while true, is that you could also stick Biggs in a squad with already decent ships and the end result is still better than using T-70s.

What utter garbage, ignoring personal playstyle and experience is a great way to suck at this game.

For example, I am just awfull with palp aces builds, I just don't win with them. Does that mean it sucks? By contrast I have had huge success incorporating M3A's into my scum lists.

My playstyle and list building skills have a huge effect on what ships are good for me. This applies to everyone... The ships are so closely balanced that personal play style can easily change each player's power rankings of ships. If all you do is take major juggler's (who I think has done allot of harm to this game) values and ignore what you as a person can do then you are in for alot of mediocre play.

This game takes skill, and people's skills with certain ships may be better then with others.

This isn't a fighting game like Smash Bros or Street Fighter where you have an arsenal of tools and attacks available at all times, reaction time, and directional freedom of movement that you can use to outplay someone. Half of the game is stats and straight up luck with dice. The first thing is only what you take to a tournament, the second isn't even up to you. The only "true" method of outplaying someone is outmaneuvering them, which Rebel ships are inherently inferior at doing. The only consistently effective method of outplaying someone is bringing a list that their's loses to.

Personal playstyle is one thing, and that goes a long way, but getting bodied by that playstyles hard counter is another. And Wave 8 is the hard counter to T-70s(and most Rebel ships to be honest)

There's only so much you can do to outplay the thing that your list auto-loses to, and that's depressingly very little to begin with. I don't like that it is the way it is, but it is.

And i'm sorry, but no, ships in this game are balanced like ass. If ships were balanced, we'd see lists other than Jumpmasters(be it triple jumps or dengaroo) and palp aces consistently win tournaments, but we don't. There's a lot of **** you're just going to lose to when you bring certain ships, and it's best to get used to that now. Skill accounts for a lot in this game. Skill is what allows you to win a bad matchup.

Knowledge is what allows you to avoid the bad matchup in the first place.

Ultimately the point i'm trying to make is that the game is so poorly balanced at the moment to the point where on the whole, lists that you're comfortable with aren't viable unless they're also coincidentally the best lists in the game.

"viable" is shorthand for cowardly bore.

"viable" is shorthand for cowardly bore.

"'viable' is shorthand for cowardly bore" is shorthand for "i don't play in tournaments and i'm smugly superior about it".

Palp aces stopped

eh...competitively no not really

they're okay, but mainly they're simply overpriced for the offense they put out and apart from Poe they're really not durable

more importantly, though, they're much more fun to fly than the regular X thanks to boost and t-rolls

No, they are definetively not overpriced. I think the word "overpriced" is used too recklessly here recently. They are priced very well.

I mean... they ARE overpriced. T-65s are overpriced and T-70s are based off of the T-65s point cost. It should cost a point or two less, just like how the T-65 should cost a point or two less. T-70s hover around high seventy low eighty percent points efficient, way worse than the T-65. T-70s ARE overpriced, it's just that it's best matchups don't involve jousting. Which is what ultimately bothers me most about Imperial ships like X/1 Advanced and X/7 Defender, is that it has very favorable matchups for nearly anything because it's both incredibly efficient AND have good HP, AND have reposition maneuvers, AND have high AGI. Ships like the T-70 only perform well in niche scenarios, which is why you don't see any in the Wave 8 meta because this is the exact counter to T-70s.

Also, one thing i've noticed that really irks me: "Anything works if you fly it well enough!"

Eh....Kind of.

However, it's the lack of specificity to this statement that is the issue. Technically yes, 3 T-70s could beat a triple jump list. That doesn't mean that the matchup against them isn't 95/5 for the jumps. What i really hear when someone says "If you fly it well enough" is "If your enemy flies poorly" or "if you get god-like dice rolls".

In reality, the triple jumps matchup is an auto-lose for T-70s. Dengaroo isn't an auto-lose, but it's easily an 80/20 for them. Palp is a 60/40 for them.

The simple truth is that out of all the mainstream lists of Wave 8, no T-70 pilot has a favorable match up. So yeah, if you "fly it well enough" you can use anything. But the truth is that in these cases, there's very, very few people that are actually capable of flying T-70s well enough to beat triple jumps, and even less that can do it consistently.

The question wasn't whether you could fly T-70s casually or not. It's whether they were viable in tournament. Frankly, no, they're not. There. That's the question answered. There's many better options in the game right now than T-70s. Don't hold out hope for "oh if i stick them with Biggs it'll be better" because the answer, while true, is that you could also stick Biggs in a squad with already decent ships and the end result is still better than using T-70s.

What utter garbage, ignoring personal playstyle and experience is a great way to suck at this game.

For example, I am just awfull with palp aces builds, I just don't win with them. Does that mean it sucks? By contrast I have had huge success incorporating M3A's into my scum lists.

My playstyle and list building skills have a huge effect on what ships are good for me. This applies to everyone... The ships are so closely balanced that personal play style can easily change each player's power rankings of ships. If all you do is take major juggler's (who I think has done allot of harm to this game) values and ignore what you as a person can do then you are in for alot of mediocre play.

This game takes skill, and people's skills with certain ships may be better then with others.

This isn't a fighting game like Smash Bros or Street Fighter where you have an arsenal of tools and attacks available at all times, reaction time, and directional freedom of movement that you can use to outplay someone. Half of the game is stats and straight up luck with dice. The first thing is only what you take to a tournament, the second isn't even up to you. The only "true" method of outplaying someone is outmaneuvering them, which Rebel ships are inherently inferior at doing. The only consistently effective method of outplaying someone is bringing a list that their's loses to.

Personal playstyle is one thing, and that goes a long way, but getting bodied by that playstyles hard counter is another. And Wave 8 is the hard counter to T-70s(and most Rebel ships to be honest)

There's only so much you can do to outplay the thing that your list auto-loses to, and that's depressingly very little to begin with. I don't like that it is the way it is, but it is.

And i'm sorry, but no, ships in this game are balanced like ass. If ships were balanced, we'd see lists other than Jumpmasters(be it triple jumps or dengaroo) and palp aces consistently win tournaments, but we don't. There's a lot of **** you're just going to lose to when you bring certain ships, and it's best to get used to that now. Skill accounts for a lot in this game. Skill is what allows you to win a bad matchup.

Knowledge is what allows you to avoid the bad matchup in the first place.

Ultimately the point i'm trying to make is that the game is so poorly balanced at the moment to the point where on the whole, lists that you're comfortable with aren't viable unless they're also coincidentally the best lists in the game.

Palp aces stopped winning around here a while ago, so much so that regionals saw only 3 show up and none of the placed top 8.

However if your top players are running palp aces or whatever then they are going to win.

If people listen to the crap you are pushing them we will only have palp aces and jumpmaster because since they are mostly what is played they win most tournaments and therefore are the best and are only what is played.