On 8/27/2018 at 11:41 AM, kyo55082 said:

I think you are woefully undervaluing cost efficient which changes a lot of your ranking.

Hero starting weapons only do something like 1.5 average damage against a black dice opponent. The DL-17 and Vibroknife will do 2.5 average damage against black dice for a measly ~100 credit cost since you sell them back at some point. At least to me, increasing my damage by a full point for 100 credits allows me to skip the horrible cost efficiency weapons in T2 and supply all my heroes with T3 weapons by endgame.

Additionally, how is the A280 an "A" tier weapon... it has garbage damage (2.75 damage against a black dice) and accuracy counts for very little in a campaign. only with guaranteed surges can you get up to 3.16 average damage against a black dice enemy which can only ON AVERAGE kill 1 regular storm trooper.

lastly, you messed up all of Loku's weapon recommendations. He should only use weapons with stun surge options (T-21 or sporting pistol). this allows him to utilize the stun on the weapon in combination with overwatch to interrupt an enemy attack to deny the shot entirely.

I have also made my own spreadsheet that includes average damages of all weapons with their cost efficiency. In the link below. You need to scroll down on the left to find the weapons section.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JaO1MVllj1R83ys9uHDo9qG-RR5XdaXi3fxLpGlWC-E/edit?usp=sharing

When you are playing the game, buying weapons for your characters, the goal is not to be the most efficient with your money, it is to kill imperials. Who cares if Vibroknife is only 100 credits, if you can't kill stuff what does it matter? (Also Vibroknife isn't better than a modded starter). Cost efficency has its place, and I do mention some of the notable cost effective weapons but ultimately, damage is what really matters and in the full 11 mission campaigns, credits aren't typically a huge issue (tho they are in Heart of the Empire).

You are right, tier 2 isn't as cost efficient and I even say that in the OP, but it is still does more damage on average. A 2 mod tier 2 can do tier 3 levels of damage but a 2 mod tier 1 weapon cannot. My ratings and analysis take mods into consideration. The best mods are so good because they last all campaign and should be priority buys, analyzing naked weapons doesn't translate to how the game is actually played. The A280 is a fine weapon with tac display or plasma cell on it, and with both, it is tier 3 level. That is why is A class (granted EE-3 is slightly better but not by enough to bump it down a tier). Typically I either get a tier 1 weapon then a tier 3, or i keep starter though tier 1 and get a good tier 2 weapon such as A280 or EE3, slap 2 mods on it and keep it to endgame.

Loku with overwatch and stun is kind of fun, but that is only one way to play him (and honestly the first time I've ever heard of that build). If a Loku player gets overwatch, it is typically late. And by getting T-21 or sporting pistol you are sacrificing a lot of damage.

Your spreadsheet is a wall of numbers and text with next to no practical applications.

My goal with this guide was to take theorycrafting and actually make it applicable. That is why you don't really see numbers in my guide.

Do not be mistaken that I am ONLY considering averages.... but you are neglecting the dozens of combination of hero class cards to break that 3 damage threshold (Damage tokens from Ko-Tun or Drokkata, Onar's Mutual destruction, Shyla's full sweep, one shot from JAX in combination, loku's recon token, etc...). Many of which can be achieved with the combination of vibroknife or DH-17 on mission 2 rather than waiting until mission 4 and wasting 200-300 credits.

you are correct that DH-17 and vibroknife is not better than modded starter except that you can now run 4 heroes with good weapons early game because 2 can have the DH-17 and vibroknife and 2 can have modded starters.... I believe this makes it better, not worse.... especially when you are already advocate for inefficient cost weapons like the A280...

Concerning Loku, there are only three possible weapons to even consider.

1. any typical T3 weapon which he gain no synergy over and does not break the important 7-8 damage thresholds, making such a weapon better used elsewhere

2. DDC with plasma cell which I have playing with on 2 occasions on Loku and Vinto who can achieve great synergy with the weapon. Except I still found that at the end it only brought the weapon up to average at best because you cannot ALWAYS/CONSISTANTLY use the triple attack.

3. Loku with a stun weapon, which means he can deny enemy shot entirely (i.e. Jyn 2.0) and still lends added damage for the rest of his team because he does not need to greed the recon tokens for his DDC.

Personally, I see options 3 as the far better than option 2 or option 1.

my spreadsheet is a wall of numbers but it is a 10 times easier to compare all the weapons together on one sheet rather than trying to compare them between 30 internet tabs of "imperial assault calculator". it also allows you to compare all tiers, ranged weapons, and melee weapons together , rather than dividing it up between 6 different categories.

please also remember that my spreadsheet is just the starting point from which situational effects are added and removed. The starting point just reminds you that if something is roughly 30% worse, than you need a lot of situational bonus to make it average let alone better. and if something is 5-10% worse than that could just be my margin or error...

15 hours ago, Deadwolf said:

Loku with overwatch and stun is kind of fun,

10 minutes ago, kyo55082 said:

3. Loku with a stun weapon, which means he can deny enemy shot entirely (i.e. Jyn 2.0)

Just checking, but you're both aware that the FAQ nerffed that, right? At least for Attacks, it still works when they declare a Move.

On page 13: "A Stun ned figure cannot declare an attack, but can resolve an attack that has already been declared if it becomes Stun ned during it."

42 minutes ago, Uninvited Guest said:

Just checking, but you're both aware that the FAQ nerffed that, right? At least for Attacks, it still works when they declare a Move.

On page 13: "A Stun ned figure cannot declare an attack, but can resolve an attack that has already been declared if it becomes Stun ned during it."

I think that was written primarily with something like Greedo in mind (i.e. he could be stunned during the "Slow on the Draw" attack). In any case, I think Jyn would still be okay. Her quick draw triggers at the beginning of the enemy figure's activation, before any attacks/moves are declared.

1 hour ago, Uninvited Guest said:

Just checking, but you're both aware that the FAQ nerffed that, right? At least for Attacks, it still works when they declare a Move.

On page 13: "A Stun ned figure cannot declare an attack, but can resolve an attack that has already been declared if it becomes Stun ned during it."

I wasn't planning on changing my guide for that very niche build anyway.

To be honest, I haven't played IA in a long time, since starting multiple gloomhaven campaigns. I'm not even sure I will pick up Tyrants ><

That said, should be still be able to integrate the new heroes into the guide. (Tress is easy, the existing single target weapons are all good on her, especially Vibrosword. CT-1701 needs to plan around the extra white die, so I am thinking either less reliance on surge or high pierce, will have to see what options there are).

Loku with A280 and Disruption cell was fun in my app campaign. Swap the blue for a red.

1 hour ago, Deadwolf said:

To  b  e    honest, I haven't played IA in a long time, sin  ce  starting mu  ltiple gloo  m  have  n         campaign  s  .    I  '  m not eve  n sure I will pick up  Tyrants >< 

Lol, completely understood! One Gloomhaven campaign has been enough of a time sync for me to (possibly) skip ToL expansion as well.

3 hours ago, Uninvited Guest said:

On page 13: "A Stun ned figure cannot declare an attack, but can resolve an attack that has already been declared if it becomes Stun ned during it." 

well ****... I only read the 2017 FAQ... I will need to take another look at Loku build and see if there is some way to make him on par with the latest released heroes...

There are a lot of wacky combinations in the app because you can't always get what you want. Some 3-dice weapons are (or feel worse) than 2-dice weapons with modifications. One fun combinations from my previous app campaign play:

Biv with Repeating Blaster and Disruption Cell :
Disruption Cell isn't optional, it must always replace one die with a red die, but because Repeating Blaster already has a red die, you can replace that red die with a red die, and get the +2 Accuracy from Disruption Cell and minimum of 2 from the blue die for 4+ Accuracy. Or, if within 2 spaces, like when performing Close and Personal, Biv can replace the blue for Red+Red with 2 Accuracy.

I didn't get quite what I wanted for the finale
Armory: Sporting Blaster, Disruptor Pistol, T-21, Ryyk Blades, DXR-6, Charged Ammo Pack, Spread Barrel, Under-Barrel HH-4

DXR-6 only has some range over Hand Cannon with Marksman Barrel. The other weapons don't really provide much increase in damage output. I would've replaced E-11 with A280 in a heartbeat though. So, just buying Ryyk Blades for Gaarkhan and hoping he will get wounded. 175cr left over to bribe someone on Jabba's palace.

Gaarkhan - 14 Health, 5 Endurance, 5 Speed, Vibro-Ax, Wookiee Loyalty (1XP), Wookiee Fortitude (1XP), Bacta Pump, Rampage (3XP), Unstoppable (4XP), Ryyk Blades w/ Vibrogenerator
Mak - 14 Health, 5 Endurance, 4 Speed, Longblaster, Disengage (1XP), Slicing Tools, DL-44 with Sniper Scope and Plasma Cell, Jeswandi Training (2XP), Expertise (3XP), Personal Shields, Supply Pack, Responsive Armor
Biv - 17 Health, 4 Endurance, 4 Speed, Repeating Blaster w/ Vibrobayonet (3XP), Shake It Off (1XP), Into the Frey (2XP), Survival Gear, E-11 with Disruption Cell and Tactical Display, Trophy Armor (3XP)
Murne - 12 Health, 4 Endurance, 4 Speed, Diplomat's Blaster, Sonice Bellow, Professional Aide (2XP), Hand Cannon with Marksman Barrel, Solidarity (3XP), Lead from the Front (4XP), Reinforced Helmet

Loku really just cares about doing as much damage as he possibly can.

Typically, I would go E-11 into Valken-38 (or sniper rifle but that wasn't out at the time).

I've tried the ddc defender, and I was underwhelmed.

I'm usually thoroughly whelmed by the DDC defender... except in one case, where you have it on Verena, and she has point blank shot and the plasma cell. RG Piece 2 is pretty brutal.

6 hours ago, MadFuhrer said:

I'm usually thoroughly whelmed by the DDC defender... except in one case, where you have it on Verena, and she has point blank shot and the plasma cell. RG Piece 2 is pretty brutal.

I haven't used it with Verena, but yeah, there is potential there and that is mentioned in my guide.

On 8/23/2018 at 11:33 PM, Deadwolf said:

I will update the OP when I get the chance but here is the lowdown on the new weapons.

Punch Dagger - It looks better than it is. It is better than your starter so it is fine in tier 1 but becomes obsolete quickly in tier 2. The ability is what gives the weapon value and could be decent on melee characters who are not strain intensive.

E-11D - it is very comparable to the EE-3 and A238 but where it really shines is with tac display+plasma cell. That combo has really good synergy on this platform and in this configuration, not only outshines those weapons but also competes with the best ranged tier 3 weapons.

Bo-Rifle - As far as tier 3 weapons go, it is on the low end in terms of damage. But that isnt factoring the stun, focus, or ranged attack ability. So what it lacks in pure damage, it makes up for in versatility and utility.

The new item combat vambraces are particularly good with red dice (I need to make a new category for items such as this).

Will topic be update with Tier (And "Best with") of Punch Dagger, E-11D and Bo-Rifle? Thanks