Tech slot holds little value to anyone right now.

Also gotta remember we have 3-4 of those that havnt been spoiled yet. Since we got the token a blank for both offense and defense now, and somehow i doubt they'll make a focus-keeper tech, now they'll start making some actual uses out of that slot that might meld with sensors in some juicy ways.

Tech slot holds little value to anyone right now.

Also gotta remember we have 3-4 of those that havnt been spoiled yet. Since we got the token a blank for both offense and defense now, and somehow i doubt they'll make a focus-keeper tech, now they'll start making some actual uses out of that slot that might meld with sensors in some juicy ways.

Right, we only have three choices right now but as you said more are coming and right now it's the only ship that can take sensor and tech and is one of three that has a tech slot.

Tech slot holds little value to anyone right now.

Also gotta remember we have 3-4 of those that havnt been spoiled yet. Since we got the token a blank for both offense and defense now, and somehow i doubt they'll make a focus-keeper tech, now they'll start making some actual uses out of that slot that might meld with sensors in some juicy ways.

Right, we only have three choices right now but as you said more are coming and right now it's the only ship that can take sensor and tech and is one of three that has a tech slot.

I mentioned this somewhere, but I'll say it again. Backdraft was facing Dengar with Zuckuss crew (it wasn't exactly a Dengaroo squad, but this situation was close enough). Anyway. I have a focus, Dengar attacks, getting [hit][hit]. I roll [blank][focus]. He uses Zuckuss to cause me to reroll the focus. It turns up [evade]. I then use my focus with Sensor Cluster to turn the [blank] into an [evade], coming away unscathed. Situational? Sure, but it's a lot of fun when it works, and every little bit helps on a ship that relies more on hit points than evade dice. Call me a fan of Sensor Cluster.

Tech slot holds little value to anyone right now.

Also gotta remember we have 3-4 of those that havnt been spoiled yet. Since we got the token a blank for both offense and defense now, and somehow i doubt they'll make a focus-keeper tech, now they'll start making some actual uses out of that slot that might meld with sensors in some juicy ways.

Right, we only have three choices right now but as you said more are coming and right now it's the only ship that can take sensor and tech and is one of three that has a tech slot.

I mentioned this somewhere, but I'll say it again. Backdraft was facing Dengar with Zuckuss crew (it wasn't exactly a Dengaroo squad, but this situation was close enough). Anyway. I have a focus, Dengar attacks, getting [hit][hit]. I roll [blank][focus]. He uses Zuckuss to cause me to reroll the focus. It turns up [evade]. I then use my focus with Sensor Cluster to turn the [blank] into an [evade], coming away unscathed. Situational? Sure, but it's a lot of fun when it works, and every little bit helps on a ship that relies more on hit points than evade dice. Call me a fan of Sensor Cluster.

I also like sensor cluster, but I'm having trouble finding the two points for it and I also didn't want to fight what I thought might be another uphill battle here:)

oh if i can squeeze it in i'll put sensor clusters on there for sure. Usually the first thing i cut if i need some points though.

However thats a purely defensive tech, one that unless you pay the insane 4pts for jammer doesnt clash with anything else it can take. Im trying to think of things they could put in the tech slot that isnt just hang onto a token or mod a blank. Its a weird slot. Kinda feels like they should have just been sensor slots tbh, but i imagine that would break tie/fo if they had a sensor instead of tech. Though that might have made the T70 actually good...never know.

Possible there could be a "perform this action twice, get stressed" but even that feels like a sensor thing.

Thing is it does very little ships i already own can't do, so spending £15 on it on the off chance i'll like it is not gonna happen.

If it's a cost saving measure, then, yeah, you can probably make due with previous waves.

In terms of doing things that other ships in the Empire can't? I think there are quite a few things actually. It is a three gun ship with durability that has a one forward. It is the best platform for the sensor slot in the faction and also has a tech slot. And, of course, the rear arc. The rear arc isn't always significant but there are certain match ups where it really a shines and means this ship has more time on target than any other ship. Overall, I'm repeating myself, but I'll say that at first glance I was unimpressed but I've used Omega Specs and Backdraft effectively.

Bombers go one forward

I'd argue the advanced gets better mileage out of sensors.

And my beloved defenders make the rear arc look less than enticing when they can turn so effortlessly and with such grace.

It's nothing to do with saving money and everything to do with simply not seeing anything of worth, if they'd had a better dial and the evade action I'd of gotten one but with the way it turned out nah no sale.

Got to borrow a buddy's SF to try out the first order's finest alongside the best the empire can muster

Ie

Backdraft (vi, fcs,TIEmk2)

Vessery (juke, x7)

Glaive (juke, x7)

The list normally includes inqy, but FCS is a hell of a lot easier to enable vess with

While Inqy undoubtedly has the edge in bring totally busted for his cost, his slowness kinda irritated me esp next to the x7s going YEHAW all over the table.

Backdraft matches their speed better and can be a tricky little bugger if you know your aux arcs (and I know ARCS )

Needs more testing but its good fun AND a fully modified gun that enables vess very well

Not enough guaranteed damage for me to try to make competitive ofc but it does good work

Thing is it does very little ships i already own can't do, so spending £15 on it on the off chance i'll like it is not gonna happen.

If it's a cost saving measure, then, yeah, you can probably make due with previous waves.

In terms of doing things that other ships in the Empire can't? I think there are quite a few things actually. It is a three gun ship with durability that has a one forward. It is the best platform for the sensor slot in the faction and also has a tech slot. And, of course, the rear arc. The rear arc isn't always significant but there are certain match ups where it really a shines and means this ship has more time on target than any other ship. Overall, I'm repeating myself, but I'll say that at first glance I was unimpressed but I've used Omega Specs and Backdraft effectively.

Bombers go one forward

I'd argue the advanced gets better mileage out of sensors.

And my beloved defenders make the rear arc look less than enticing when they can turn so effortlessly and with such grace.

It's nothing to do with saving money and everything to do with simply not seeing anything of worth, if they'd had a better dial and the evade action I'd of gotten one but with the way it turned out nah no sale.

But bombers don't have three attack dice primaries which was the next part of that sentence

The advanced pretty much requires the sensor slot to be even useable (and even then, we're not seeing it). It's also still a two attack dice ship unless you bring it up by a point to get ATC, which has a lot of negatives.

I'd agree that defenders put a lot of time on target as well with the 4k and before the /sf I'd have said they have the edge there, but the rear arc just gives a lot of other options beyond a single maneuver to maintain arc on a target (or even two!). I'm not saying they are better than the defender but they are a different category.

defenders tend to get stuck in a loop once they do a 4k though. That loop can be hard to break out of without completely losing a couple turns of shooting, and once youre in that loop you can be predicted really easy.

SFs may not have the perma-loop defenders have, but if flown right they almost never DONT have a shot to make up for it. Backdraft basically makes his aux arc 3die, or 3.5 if you wanna try and factor in the fact that the 3rd die is auto crit. So he at least isnt even losing out on potential damage from aux arc since hes flying wide rather than kspamming.

Just be careful when estimating the value of the aux arc

It's a godsend that defines the ship, but it's also a 2 die primary

Even with Tail gunner, ARCs can't much done with their superior (re modified) aux arc shots. Its basically norra or ignoring damage in favor of r3a2 (though r3a2 denying defensive tokens helps push damage through esp with gunner)

For the SF, backdraft is the only aux worth worth mentioning against anything that can evade. For the others, you better just hope you're plinking at low agility or at range 1

They joust a LOT better than ARCs ,(sloops; cheaper) but then you're comparing with defenders

Tech slot holds little value to anyone right now.

Also gotta remember we have 3-4 of those that havnt been spoiled yet. Since we got the token a blank for both offense and defense now, and somehow i doubt they'll make a focus-keeper tech, now they'll start making some actual uses out of that slot that might meld with sensors in some juicy ways.

Right, we only have three choices right now but as you said more are coming and right now it's the only ship that can take sensor and tech and is one of three that has a tech slot.

I mentioned this somewhere, but I'll say it again. Backdraft was facing Dengar with Zuckuss crew (it wasn't exactly a Dengaroo squad, but this situation was close enough). Anyway. I have a focus, Dengar attacks, getting [hit][hit]. I roll [blank][focus]. He uses Zuckuss to cause me to reroll the focus. It turns up [evade]. I then use my focus with Sensor Cluster to turn the [blank] into an [evade], coming away unscathed. Situational? Sure, but it's a lot of fun when it works, and every little bit helps on a ship that relies more on hit points than evade dice. Call me a fan of Sensor Cluster.

It's a fun situation that worked out for you, but shouldn't have happened. Your opponent should have realized that you were going to get an evade result, regardless of what you rolled. The [blank][Focus] you rolled was the best he could hope for. Forcing a Zuckuss reroll sounds like a force of habit. Basically, you shouldn't expect this to happen against someone who's thinking through the possible outcomes.

True, and I'm sure he learned his lesson. It's the same way with any new card or combo. I remember my first game against Crackshot. -shudder- But regardless, it's really decent defensive tech. It's not going to win any awards for game-breaking awesomeness, but it's not a card that has to stay in the box/binder forever.

Tech slot holds little value to anyone right now.

Also gotta remember we have 3-4 of those that havnt been spoiled yet. Since we got the token a blank for both offense and defense now, and somehow i doubt they'll make a focus-keeper tech, now they'll start making some actual uses out of that slot that might meld with sensors in some juicy ways.

Right, we only have three choices right now but as you said more are coming and right now it's the only ship that can take sensor and tech and is one of three that has a tech slot.

I mentioned this somewhere, but I'll say it again. Backdraft was facing Dengar with Zuckuss crew (it wasn't exactly a Dengaroo squad, but this situation was close enough). Anyway. I have a focus, Dengar attacks, getting [hit][hit]. I roll [blank][focus]. He uses Zuckuss to cause me to reroll the focus. It turns up [evade]. I then use my focus with Sensor Cluster to turn the [blank] into an [evade], coming away unscathed. Situational? Sure, but it's a lot of fun when it works, and every little bit helps on a ship that relies more on hit points than evade dice. Call me a fan of Sensor Cluster.

It's a fun situation that worked out for you, but shouldn't have happened. Your opponent should have realized that you were going to get an evade result, regardless of what you rolled. The [blank][Focus] you rolled was the best he could hope for. Forcing a Zuckuss reroll sounds like a force of habit. Basically, you shouldn't expect this to happen against someone who's thinking through the possible outcomes.

At the same time it did provide him a guaranteed evade against an otherwise troublesome card.

assuming range 2-3 against perfect red dice and (typically) worthless greens esp v zuckuss, clusters will add another turn to the SF by taking 3 damage down to 2

not certain if it's worth 2 points, though. They're not durable, with or without clusters, and that focus could be used offensively

no idea

no one's used it yet, especially the naysayers

everyone's too obsessed with the Fang (and that lovely ARC )

The ARC is another one that I'm... like... isn't it just a bad T-65? I don't get what it's for.

Thematically it's a bad T-65. Game-wise it looks like a replacement for the b-wing.

I mentioned this somewhere, but I'll say it again. Backdraft was facing Dengar with Zuckuss crew (it wasn't exactly a Dengaroo squad, but this situation was close enough). Anyway. I have a focus, Dengar attacks, getting [hit][hit]. I roll [blank][focus]. He uses Zuckuss to cause me to reroll the focus. It turns up [evade]. I then use my focus with Sensor Cluster to turn the [blank] into an [evade], coming away unscathed. Situational? Sure, but it's a lot of fun when it works, and every little bit helps on a ship that relies more on hit points than evade dice. Call me a fan of Sensor Cluster.

It's a fun situation that worked out for you, but shouldn't have happened. Your opponent should have realized that you were going to get an evade result, regardless of what you rolled. The [blank][Focus] you rolled was the best he could hope for. Forcing a Zuckuss reroll sounds like a force of habit. Basically, you shouldn't expect this to happen against someone who's thinking through the possible outcomes.

At the same time it did provide him a guaranteed evade against an otherwise troublesome card.

Very true. I have no opinion on Sensor Cluster just yet. It's an interesting card and I'm looking forward to seeing how it works out. It's just that Parakitor's example, while I'm sure he enjoyed the experience of turning 1 evade into 2, isn't a very good one if you're trying to sell Sensor Cluster.

Here's an argument for Sensor Cluster.

If you have 2 evade dice and a focus token, you have ~14% 0 evades, ~47% 1 evade, ~40% 2 evades. If you have a focus token and sensor cluster, you have ~1/3 1 evade, ~2/3 2 evades.

Edit: Is my screen the only one where the tilde appears like a minus sign when it's on the page? The tilde looks normal in the edit screen but after I post it looks like a minus.

Lots of snips.

At the same time it did provide him a guaranteed evade against an otherwise troublesome card.

This could be an interesting point... in a zuckuss-heavy environment is a guaranteed evade v a zuckuss opponent worth 2 points?

How about on TIE/FOs?(not omega leader).

It's something I'll be considering.

no idea

no one's used it yet, especially the naysayers

everyone's too obsessed with the Fang (and that lovely ARC )

The ARC is another one that I'm... like... isn't it just a bad T-65? I don't get what it's for.

Thematically it's a bad T-65. Game-wise it looks like a replacement for the b-wing.

christ no, why does anyone think it'll joust? there's no reason to try to fit it into that role when it's so inefficient

it's got an aux arc and the means to abuse it (unlike non-backdraft SF); that's its role

in the twenty+ games I've gotten in with them, I've k-turned twice . Once didn't matter because I was so far ahead, and the other time was a mistake (ie should've just gone forward a little and used the auxiliary)

and thematically, it's the love child between a snowspeeder's front and ass guns + the t-65s long ass nose

tie/fo i'd rather pay the extra point and bank the evade token. Yeah a focus might turn into 2 evades instead of 1 but generally you have both focus and evade anyway unless you already got shot at that round.

This could be an interesting point... in a zuckuss-heavy environment is a guaranteed evade v a zuckuss opponent worth 2 points?

How about on TIE/FOs?(not omega leader).

It's something I'll be considering.

I'm not sure of the exact math, but I think with the extra evade dice your use for sensor cluster drops, so it isn't as effective on the FOs because you're so likely to get at least one focus anyway.

This could be an interesting point... in a zuckuss-heavy environment is a guaranteed evade v a zuckuss opponent worth 2 points?

How about on TIE/FOs?(not omega leader).

It's something I'll be considering.

I'm not sure of the exact math, but I think with the extra evade dice your use for sensor cluster drops, so it isn't as effective on the FOs because you're so likely to get at least one focus anyway.

3 evade dice

Focus token: 5% 0 evades, 26% 1 evade, 44% 2 evades, 24% 3 evades

Focus + Sensor Clusters: 23 % 1 evade, 37% 2 evades, 40% 3 evades

Edit: Compared to Comm Relay

Focus + Evade token: 5% 1 evades, 26% 2 evades, 44% 3 evades, 24% 4 evades

As you might expect, Comm Relay is better at defense. Then again, it also costs 1 more point and requires 2 turns to set up as opposed to focus + sensor which works every turn.

As cool and powerful as the other ships in Wave 9 are, I keep hoping the TIE/sf will be some sort of sleeper hit once people start playing it. Not just because I like all TIE ships and like seeing them do well, but also out of spite for everyone that declared it DOA because it didn't fit the Empire's running "theme" of fast, arc-dodging ships.

This could be an interesting point... in a zuckuss-heavy environment is a guaranteed evade v a zuckuss opponent worth 2 points?

How about on TIE/FOs?(not omega leader).

It's something I'll be considering.

I'm not sure of the exact math, but I think with the extra evade dice your use for sensor cluster drops, so it isn't as effective on the FOs because you're so likely to get at least one focus anyway.

3 evade dice

Focus token: 5% 0 evades, 26% 1 evade, 44% 2 evades, 24% 3 evades

Focus + Sensor Clusters: 23 % 1 evade, 37% 2 evades, 40% 3 evades

Edit: Compared to Comm Relay

Focus + Evade token: 5% 1 evades, 26% 2 evades, 44% 3 evades, 24% 4 evades

As you might expect, Comm Relay is better at defense. Then again, it also costs 1 more point and requires 2 turns to set up as opposed to focus + sensor which works every turn.

Thanks for the numbers. My question was more along the lines of how much it improved defense though on a two die ship vs a three die ship.

to be fair at face value it does seem doa because its comparative price to a defender, largely does the same job, and the tech slot is largely ignored if you cant evade stash right now.

In exchange for a 4k, it has a 2die rear arc. Sounds like a loss, except a 4k is one move and an aux arc is pretty much ANY maneuver that doesnt hit a rock.

Sensor slot is the bulk of the price difference, if you leave it off theyre considerably cheaper (but easier to take out) than an x7 defender, but as we know sensors are known for being the lynchpin of a lot of shenanigan builds. Time will tell if this will be another such ship.

Finally, it has 2 agility with 6 total health. I fly bombers alot, which are the same thing (except all hull instead of 50-50 shields) and truth they can go up in smoke really fast, they usually take as much a beating as a defender against common firepower (2-3 die) and generally only flop quickly to guarantee crits or 4+ hits, since they cant evade them or soak in shields.

Backdraft right now is trading places with Maarek Stele for my "The Mighty 7s" list and on paper is seems pretty good, i still need my **** SF to playtest it though (mauler mithel, scourge, omega ace are the other 3 PS7 ships i use.....its an oddly nasty list primarily just abusing pilot abilities lol)

Issue is, imperials are used to one mentality of ships and the SF is not apart of that mentality. Our large ships suck, so we arent used to beefy ships. Our small bases for the most part are either pathetic (punisher) or super fragile yet agile (anything other than defenders) or some weird zone in between (bombers/tie adv). Defenders are only considered good by the general population because theyre blatantly obvious with their power due to the titles. At first i thought they were utter crap when i started playing (even posted a thread months of months ago about wtf do you do with them) but no it was just i need a different mentality with'm. SF is bound to be in the same boat.

Also the Comm tech cant be on a 2die ship unless you use a T70 with Jan Ors crew around, so mathing it is kinda pointless

note SF are a lot cheaper than defenders; the problem there is that the defender's are far and away the more efficient jousters

not that the SF is a bad jouster (they make the poor T-65 cry, being as they are essentially integrated X-wings that can take VTs for free and just get +1 point for +1 PS and the seggys...and the aux arc...) but nothing matches the x7 defender there

the named SF are competing with Inq and Soontir ito points, even though they don't accomplish even remotely the same thing

in both cases, you're stacking your ability to maneuver against the guarantees of the evade token (among other things in the case of inqy and soontir)

wish it were the case that I could say your maneuvering should outweigh more simple modifying very time, but sadly dice are dice