I honestly think the people saying it a dud are not experienced with what movement options an Aux arc can give you.

I really don't see why this ship didn't get the evade action. It's not exactly like having two green dice and no autothrusters makes you broken if you have evade. If they were worried about Comm Relay being too strong on this ship, I'd have gladly swapped the Tech slot out for the evade action, amirite?

nah

if the x7 defender exists, then there cannot be anything even remotely OP about comms relay SF

juke would've been fun too

If you're just throwing dice forwards then I'm not sure I'd bother with the /SF at all because the Empire has much better jousters available for similar costs.

You're not just throwing dice forward, though, it's just that the double shot is rare. As I said before, because of the rear arc you have more time on target (and modified shots) than any other ship in that price range.

Which imperials are better jousters in that point range?

juke would be awesome on splitfire.

Sadly imperials have no way of assigning Evades to other ships, and only way they can get it without the action or ship-specific titles is Cool Hand...which...there goes the whole point of juke lol

nah

if the x7 defender exists, then there cannot be anything even remotely OP about comms relay SF

juke would've been fun too

Juke out of both arcs would have been hella fun.

quite frankly i always found it odd that ships with the barrelroll action dont have evade, and ships without barrelroll have a evade....

Evade would be nimbly shifting your ship, otherwise it would be considered a disengage because you changed your vector entirely. Yet many ships with broll dont have evade, and for some reason the Ghost has evade...on a 0agi ship with no broll....?

i is confused on that one.

nah

if the x7 defender exists, then there cannot be anything even remotely OP about comms relay SF

juke would've been fun too

Juke out of both arcs would have been hella fun.

Sounds kinky

Sounds kinky

I know how you like it.

I guess I'd put it this way.

Most people consider the B-wing a very cost effective jouster, correct? Sure, it's not seeing play right now because of aces but I haven't see anyone call it a "dud" outside of the concerns people have for generics in general in the current meta.

For one point the /sf has an auxiliary arc, better dial and an extra point of PS with the same durability. I guess I already said this and I'm not sure why I'm trying to convince anyone, lol, so I guess I'll leave it at that.

I guess I'd put it this way.

Most people consider the B-wing a very cost effective jouster, correct? Sure, it's not seeing play right now because of aces but I haven't see anyone call it a "dud" outside of the concerns people have for generics in general in the current meta.

For one point the /sf has an auxiliary arc, better dial and an extra point of PS with the same durability. I guess I already said this and I'm not sure why I'm trying to convince anyone, lol, so I guess I'll leave it at that.

It's the same durability that's it's downfall.

Quickdraw will at best shoot three times total including her shot from her ability but could easily only get two shots, if you're paying a third of your squad points for a ship it **** well better last more than a turn but the sf can't promise you that.

I guess I'd put it this way.

Most people consider the B-wing a very cost effective jouster, correct? Sure, it's not seeing play right now because of aces but I haven't see anyone call it a "dud" outside of the concerns people have for generics in general in the current meta.

For one point the /sf has an auxiliary arc, better dial and an extra point of PS with the same durability. I guess I already said this and I'm not sure why I'm trying to convince anyone, lol, so I guess I'll leave it at that.

It's the same durability that's it's downfall.

Quickdraw will at best shoot three times total including her shot from her ability but could easily only get two shots, if you're paying a third of your squad points for a ship it **** well better last more than a turn but the sf can't promise you that.

I guess I'm more talking about the base ship. I think that the way people are currently trying to build the named pilots suffer from exactly the same thing the named B-wing pilots struggle with -- they get less durable for each point you add you add. I really, really, don't like the most popular Quickdraw builds that build her as a ship that burns itself out.

Eh

So first the named sf is far cheaper to build than the named b

The base cost is similar but the sf takes 2 to 3 points of upgrades and is optimal. The b consumes more

The sf also has an aux arc and white 3 banks and 4 foward. It can run while the b largely cannot

They're also both very effective at ps 9 while vi Keyan is largely bleh due to 0 synergy with pilot ability

Lastly QD isn't there to survive she's there to kill. That's the whole glass cannon mentality. Best defense,is a good offense and all that

or an x7 defender

I guess I'd put it this way.

Most people consider the B-wing a very cost effective jouster, correct? Sure, it's not seeing play right now because of aces but I haven't see anyone call it a "dud" outside of the concerns people have for generics in general in the current meta.

For one point the /sf has an auxiliary arc, better dial and an extra point of PS with the same durability. I guess I already said this and I'm not sure why I'm trying to convince anyone, lol, so I guess I'll leave it at that.

It's the same durability that's it's downfall.

Quickdraw will at best shoot three times total including her shot from her ability but could easily only get two shots, if you're paying a third of your squad points for a ship it **** well better last more than a turn but the sf can't promise you that.

I guess I'm more talking about the base ship. I think that the way people are currently trying to build the named pilots suffer from exactly the same thing the named B-wing pilots struggle with -- they get less durable for each point you add you add. I really, really, don't like the most popular Quickdraw builds that build her as a ship that burns itself out.

Yeah, I just got smoked by a Quickdraw list last night (admittedly, I was flying a Triple T-65 squad). Everyone went gaga over the RageBaffle combo, but she's a much bigger threat with just FCS and maybe a Homing Missile. At that point, you're just daring your opponent to shoot at you, which they won't want to do when you have someone else in arc. So then you're not using her ability, but you have a PS9 pilot with FCS who they don't want to shoot.

I think they will find a role. They are the only ship in the Imperial fleet with access to every Speed 1 maneuver, one of only two small ships that can do a 1-forward, and the only one that can do that 1-forward while shooting a 3-dice primary attack. Those traits lend themselves to different tactics compared to the traditional Imperial doctrine of "Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee."

So Quickdraw with S/F title, rage, baffle: 4 shots pr round? (= two shoots front arc, and 2 shoots rear arc, with rerolls each time as long as you have shields).

Most likely 2 but theoretically yes

good luck threading that needle though

RAGEWAFFLES Quickdraw is totally amazing if he doesn't get shot, evaporates if he does. Even when he does, he's still pretty solid because he gets 2 big shots and then provides a biggs effect for the rest of the list.

I like.

I really don't see why this ship didn't get the evade action. It's not exactly like having two green dice and no autothrusters makes you broken if you have evade. If they were worried about Comm Relay being too strong on this ship, I'd have gladly swapped the Tech slot out for the evade action, amirite?

I totally agree! It really hit home when these little, nimble ships were up against the Shadowcaster, and that behemoth could evade, but these things couldn't?!?! It doesn't make any sense...unless you accept the fact that for large ships "Evade" is actually a mini "Reinforce" which makes a lot more sense to me.

Everyone went gaga over the RageBaffle combo, but she's a much bigger threat with just FCS and maybe a Homing Missile. At that point, you're just daring your opponent to shoot at you, which they won't want to do when you have someone else in arc. So then you're not using her ability, but you have a PS9 pilot with FCS who they don't want to shoot.

I like your thinking. A lot. Now, some people can do amazing things with Baffle Quickdraw, but in all the games I play, I am the defensive player. For example, Kenkirk is my favorite Decimator pilot. Making Quickdraw a threat that your opponent doesn't want to shoot is pretty neat.

And what you point out about FCS is great. I hate Fire-control System. Every time I bring it, I can't shoot the same target. But with an aux arc I think there is much more utility in that cheap upgrade. I'm going to try FCS on these guys next.

Quickdraw as a reaction shot was more of my mentality.

Dengar for example tends to deter a lot of attacks if youre in his arc because his doubleshot can really hurt. Quickdraw is limited to at best 3 (4 with shield mod) times it goes off, but its not limited to the target. If shes sitting range1 on something important, you could easily see a reason to take a potshot at someone else and NOT her because then she might kill the ship in question.

Problem with QD as a crap dengar is she has neither his repositioning nor PWT (nor manny nor crew...)

Etcetcetc

Its just not terribly impressive next to her unique ability to fire outside combat as part of a double tap your opponent does not get to dictate

Srsly. The reaction shot is all very well if you can't get the self triggered shot (i.e. you got bumped) but the self triggered shot is the important one.

Its just not terribly impressive next to her unique ability to fire outside combat as part of a double tap your opponent does not get to dictate

If the PS race runs hot again, she'll be amazing, but I keep running into lower PS pilots that already have their defenses up. There's still merit I suppose. Maybe just not my style.

I guess I'd put it this way.

Most people consider the B-wing a very cost effective jouster, correct? Sure, it's not seeing play right now because of aces but I haven't see anyone call it a "dud" outside of the concerns people have for generics in general in the current meta.

For one point the /sf has an auxiliary arc, better dial and an extra point of PS with the same durability. I guess I already said this and I'm not sure why I'm trying to convince anyone, lol, so I guess I'll leave it at that.

It's the same durability that's it's downfall.

Quickdraw will at best shoot three times total including her shot from her ability but could easily only get two shots, if you're paying a third of your squad points for a ship it **** well better last more than a turn but the sf can't promise you that.

I guess I'm more talking about the base ship. I think that the way people are currently trying to build the named pilots suffer from exactly the same thing the named B-wing pilots struggle with -- they get less durable for each point you add you add. I really, really, don't like the most popular Quickdraw builds that build her as a ship that burns itself out.

Ahh talking past each other a bit then

If we are talking generics i think your better off with AC tie advanced it's 1 less hit point but it's a guaranteed 2 hits you can use your action for evade and will live longer.

Yeah im kinda wishing i didnt preorder 3...

Out of all the lists i can concoct using them the meanest sounding lists is only using backdraft. Any time i try to add a 2nd one i get put at a weird point limit lol.

Vessery 35

Juke (2)

Mk2 (1)

x7 (-2)

Backdraft 27

Outmaneuver (3)

FCS (2)

Mk2 (1)

Title (0)

Sensor Clustor (2)

Omega Leader 21

Juke (2)

Stealth Device (3)

Comm Relay (3)

Total: 100

And even this just sounds like the usual ring-a-ding-ding for Imperials without Palp, just using a "new toy with a new trick" instead of probably Vader or some other mid-30pt ship.

However i stand by what i said in a few other posts. The aux arc is new enough where its not being factored in properly. I might still make a 3SF list thats pretty mean based entirely on how they move rather than how they attack

Its just not terribly impressive next to her unique ability to fire outside combat as part of a double tap your opponent does not get to dictate

If the PS race runs hot again, she'll be amazing, but I keep running into lower PS pilots that already have their defenses up. There's still merit I suppose. Maybe just not my style.

Same. I played with the RageBaffle combo, but Vessery and Ryad don't care that you can spend a shield to shoot them in the Activation phase, or even that you can shoot them twice. They'll survive it easily, and then punish you for it.

Plus, RageBaffle usually relies on just clearing one stress token, so you're limited to a green maneuver next round. This thing doesn't have the dial to support that.

Of the four pilots, Backdraft will probably see the least use. His "I will crit you from my rear!" ability means that he'll usually draw a lot of heat before he can actually face away from you. You'll probably get better mileage from a Zeta or Omega Specialist.

I guess I'd put it this way.

Most people consider the B-wing a very cost effective jouster, correct? Sure, it's not seeing play right now because of aces but I haven't see anyone call it a "dud" outside of the concerns people have for generics in general in the current meta.

For one point the /sf has an auxiliary arc, better dial and an extra point of PS with the same durability. I guess I already said this and I'm not sure why I'm trying to convince anyone, lol, so I guess I'll leave it at that.

It's the same durability that's it's downfall.

Quickdraw will at best shoot three times total including her shot from her ability but could easily only get two shots, if you're paying a third of your squad points for a ship it **** well better last more than a turn but the sf can't promise you that.

I guess I'm more talking about the base ship. I think that the way people are currently trying to build the named pilots suffer from exactly the same thing the named B-wing pilots struggle with -- they get less durable for each point you add you add. I really, really, don't like the most popular Quickdraw builds that build her as a ship that burns itself out.

Ahh talking past each other a bit then

If we are talking generics i think your better off with AC tie advanced it's 1 less hit point but it's a guaranteed 2 hits you can use your action for evade and will live longer.

The TIE Advanced with AC is only 21 points at its cheapest. And yes it does get 1 more defense dice and Evade token at the cost of 1 shield.

But Accuracy Corrector is optional. So while the TIE Advanced is maxed out at 2 damage the TIE SF has a chance to get 3 hits or 4 in R1 and it doesn't have to cancel them for the 2 from AC. It's insurance.

But like others have said. I get many situations where there are targets both in front and behind my ships. A TIE SF with AC has the same firepower as two TIE Advanced in these circumstances for a very modest 26 points.

Plus the TIE SF has a better dial than the Advanced with full 1 Speed moves and every 2 and 3 speed moves plus the sloops make them much less predictable than the Advanced. The only cost is no 5 straight and the 1 and 3 hard turns are red.

Plus the SF is 1 higher PS.