...give the sf mk2 engines now it has 9 greens...

what the hell else are you going to put in the mod slot anyway? That ship has no issues clearing stress.

I guess I'd put it this way.

Most people consider the B-wing a very cost effective jouster, correct? Sure, it's not seeing play right now because of aces but I haven't see anyone call it a "dud" outside of the concerns people have for generics in general in the current meta.

For one point the /sf has an auxiliary arc , better dial and an extra point of PS with the same durability. I guess I already said this and I'm not sure why I'm trying to convince anyone, lol, so I guess I'll leave it at that.

It's the same durability that's it's downfall.

Quickdraw will at best shoot three times total including her shot from her ability but could easily only get two shots, if you're paying a third of your squad points for a ship it **** well better last more than a turn but the sf can't promise you that.

I guess I'm more talking about the base ship. I think that the way people are currently trying to build the named pilots suffer from exactly the same thing the named B-wing pilots struggle with -- they get less durable for each point you add you add. I really, really, don't like the most popular Quickdraw builds that build her as a ship that burns itself out.

Ahh talking past each other a bit then

If we are talking generics i think your better off with AC tie advanced it's 1 less hit point but it's a guaranteed 2 hits you can use your action for evade and will live longer.

The TIE Advanced with AC is only 21 points at its cheapest. And yes it does get 1 more defense dice and Evade token at the cost of 1 shield.

But Accuracy Corrector is optional. So while the TIE Advanced is maxed out at 2 damage the TIE SF has a chance to get 3 hits or 4 in R1 and it doesn't have to cancel them for the 2 from AC. It's insurance.

But like others have said. I get many situations where there are targets both in front and behind my ships. A TIE SF with AC has the same firepower as two TIE Advanced in these circumstances for a very modest 26 points.

Plus the TIE SF has a better dial than the Advanced with full 1 Speed moves and every 2 and 3 speed moves plus the sloops make them much less predictable than the Advanced. The only cost is no 5 straight and the 1 and 3 hard turns are red.

Plus the SF is 1 higher PS.

Yeah getting people in front and behind is going to be so rare as to not be worth planning for.

Plus AC with cluster gives you 4 sure hits at least at range one for the same cost as buying a system for the sf.

As for PS you can sort that and still be cheaper.

I guess I'd put it this way.

Most people consider the B-wing a very cost effective jouster, correct? Sure, it's not seeing play right now because of aces but I haven't see anyone call it a "dud" outside of the concerns people have for generics in general in the current meta.

For one point the /sf has an auxiliary arc , better dial and an extra point of PS with the same durability. I guess I already said this and I'm not sure why I'm trying to convince anyone, lol, so I guess I'll leave it at that.

It's the same durability that's it's downfall.

Quickdraw will at best shoot three times total including her shot from her ability but could easily only get two shots, if you're paying a third of your squad points for a ship it **** well better last more than a turn but the sf can't promise you that.

I guess I'm more talking about the base ship. I think that the way people are currently trying to build the named pilots suffer from exactly the same thing the named B-wing pilots struggle with -- they get less durable for each point you add you add. I really, really, don't like the most popular Quickdraw builds that build her as a ship that burns itself out.

Ahh talking past each other a bit then

If we are talking generics i think your better off with AC tie advanced it's 1 less hit point but it's a guaranteed 2 hits you can use your action for evade and will live longer.

The TIE Advanced with AC is only 21 points at its cheapest. And yes it does get 1 more defense dice and Evade token at the cost of 1 shield.

But Accuracy Corrector is optional. So while the TIE Advanced is maxed out at 2 damage the TIE SF has a chance to get 3 hits or 4 in R1 and it doesn't have to cancel them for the 2 from AC. It's insurance.

But like others have said. I get many situations where there are targets both in front and behind my ships. A TIE SF with AC has the same firepower as two TIE Advanced in these circumstances for a very modest 26 points.

Plus the TIE SF has a better dial than the Advanced with full 1 Speed moves and every 2 and 3 speed moves plus the sloops make them much less predictable than the Advanced. The only cost is no 5 straight and the 1 and 3 hard turns are red.

Plus the SF is 1 higher PS.

Yeah getting people in front and behind is going to be so rare as to not be worth planning for.

Plus AC with cluster gives you 4 sure hits at least at range one for the same cost as buying a system for the sf.

As for PS you can sort that and still be cheaper.

In your meta you may rarely get two targets. But not every gaming group has the same meta. Everyone doesn't play gearing up for the high octane tournaments. Not everyone plays against nothing but jumpmaster conga lines or palp-aces.

Players play 4+ size rebel lists. Players play TIE swarms.

The TIE SF may not work with how you like playing the Empire. It may not fit very well with your current meta. But that doesn't make it a bad ship or worthless. I'll take 3 TIE SF over 4 TIE Advanced against high number squadrons anyday. They will have a higher damage output to try to chew through their opponent.

The ship is good, and has more different play style than it looks like at the first glance. It's just very hard to prevail with that high degree of ace competitors the imperium has.

I guess I'd put it this way.

Most people consider the B-wing a very cost effective jouster, correct? Sure, it's not seeing play right now because of aces but I haven't see anyone call it a "dud" outside of the concerns people have for generics in general in the current meta.

For one point the /sf has an auxiliary arc , better dial and an extra point of PS with the same durability. I guess I already said this and I'm not sure why I'm trying to convince anyone, lol, so I guess I'll leave it at that.

It's the same durability that's it's downfall.

Quickdraw will at best shoot three times total including her shot from her ability but could easily only get two shots, if you're paying a third of your squad points for a ship it **** well better last more than a turn but the sf can't promise you that.

I guess I'm more talking about the base ship. I think that the way people are currently trying to build the named pilots suffer from exactly the same thing the named B-wing pilots struggle with -- they get less durable for each point you add you add. I really, really, don't like the most popular Quickdraw builds that build her as a ship that burns itself out.

Ahh talking past each other a bit then

If we are talking generics i think your better off with AC tie advanced it's 1 less hit point but it's a guaranteed 2 hits you can use your action for evade and will live longer.

The TIE Advanced with AC is only 21 points at its cheapest. And yes it does get 1 more defense dice and Evade token at the cost of 1 shield.

But Accuracy Corrector is optional. So while the TIE Advanced is maxed out at 2 damage the TIE SF has a chance to get 3 hits or 4 in R1 and it doesn't have to cancel them for the 2 from AC. It's insurance.

But like others have said. I get many situations where there are targets both in front and behind my ships. A TIE SF with AC has the same firepower as two TIE Advanced in these circumstances for a very modest 26 points.

Plus the TIE SF has a better dial than the Advanced with full 1 Speed moves and every 2 and 3 speed moves plus the sloops make them much less predictable than the Advanced. The only cost is no 5 straight and the 1 and 3 hard turns are red.

Plus the SF is 1 higher PS.

Yeah getting people in front and behind is going to be so rare as to not be worth planning for.

Plus AC with cluster gives you 4 sure hits at least at range one for the same cost as buying a system for the sf.

As for PS you can sort that and still be cheaper.

In your meta you may rarely get two targets. But not every gaming group has the same meta. Everyone doesn't play gearing up for the high octane tournaments. Not everyone plays against nothing but jumpmaster conga lines or palp-aces.

Players play 4+ size rebel lists. Players play TIE swarms.

The TIE SF may not work with how you like playing the Empire. It may not fit very well with your current meta. But that doesn't make it a bad ship or worthless. I'll take 3 TIE SF over 4 TIE Advanced against high number squadrons anyday. They will have a higher damage output to try to chew through their opponent.

I have never been to a tournament and have never flown a meta list i am 100% a casual player.

In fact i was daily in the SF speculation thread saying how much i hoped it'd be good, i'm not happy how mediocre it turned out at all.

What's so mediocre about the TIE SF?

Is it just the agility of 2? Or is it that it can't move 5 straight?

Those are the two things that other TIEs have better them them.

They have a wider open dial than any other TIE. They can actually maneuver in tight quarters and still fight unlike every other TIE that has extremely limited 1 speed maneuvers.

Is it mediocre because they only have 2 Attack if they are firing aux arc or dual arcs? Same with every other TIE other than Defenders, Interceptors, or Phantoms.

So. Again if you're limited in your thinking by the generic netlists you'll be disappointed by the SF. But it's just as capable and more flexible than any other TIE. You just have to give it a shot and think outside the box a bit.

If you can't get shots on two different targets then maybe bring Assault Missiles. If you can't get between the ships then you'll get some good hits with the Assault Missiles. That'll make your targets spread out so you can get between them and get your dual targets. I really don't see how you struggle so much trouble getting your ships between your opponent's ships. Mine always get sandwiched between ships.

What's so mediocre about the TIE SF?

Is it just the agility of 2? Or is it that it can't move 5 straight?

Those are the two things that other TIEs have better them them.

They have a wider open dial than any other TIE. They can actually maneuver in tight quarters and still fight unlike every other TIE that has extremely limited 1 speed maneuvers.

Is it mediocre because they only have 2 Attack if they are firing aux arc or dual arcs? Same with every other TIE other than Defenders, Interceptors, or Phantoms.

So. Again if you're limited in your thinking by the generic netlists you'll be disappointed by the SF. But it's just as capable and more flexible than any other TIE. You just have to give it a shot and think outside the box a bit.

I just told you I never use meta lists, I've played the defender since wave four came out long before the titles you don't get more out of the box than me.

What's so mediocre about the TIE SF?

Is it just the agility of 2? Or is it that it can't move 5 straight?

Those are the two things that other TIEs have better them them.

They have a wider open dial than any other TIE. They can actually maneuver in tight quarters and still fight unlike every other TIE that has extremely limited 1 speed maneuvers.

Is it mediocre because they only have 2 Attack if they are firing aux arc or dual arcs? Same with every other TIE other than Defenders, Interceptors, or Phantoms.

So. Again if you're limited in your thinking by the generic netlists you'll be disappointed by the SF. But it's just as capable and more flexible than any other TIE. You just have to give it a shot and think outside the box a bit.

I wouldn't call it a wider-open dial, but it's a different approach. It's basically a T-70 X-Wing with an Attack Shuttle's dial. It's a point cheaper for +1 PS, with a System slot instead of an Astromech and Barrel Roll instead of Boost, plus an auxiliary arc that you generally won't want to count on against most targets.

I think the main issue for it is people are used to the current meta, where you need to have either unblockable damage or ships that can reliably put out 4 damage to overcome the reliable 3 evade results that Imperial Aces can generate, while also being able to sustain the attacks of those types of ships.

no idea

no one's used it yet, especially the naysayers

everyone's too obsessed with the Fang (and that lovely ARC )

The ARC is another one that I'm... like... isn't it just a bad T-65? I don't get what it's for.

if you think it's just a bad t-65, you have absolutely no idea how awesome a small base aux arc is

and that's kinda sad

Not gonna be sad about what most people are missing.

X-Wing EPIC welcomes all ships... ALL of the Glorious Ships!

What's so mediocre about the TIE SF?

Is it just the agility of 2? Or is it that it can't move 5 straight?

Those are the two things that other TIEs have better them them.

They have a wider open dial than any other TIE. They can actually maneuver in tight quarters and still fight unlike every other TIE that has extremely limited 1 speed maneuvers.

Is it mediocre because they only have 2 Attack if they are firing aux arc or dual arcs? Same with every other TIE other than Defenders, Interceptors, or Phantoms.

So. Again if you're limited in your thinking by the generic netlists you'll be disappointed by the SF. But it's just as capable and more flexible than any other TIE. You just have to give it a shot and think outside the box a bit.

DAT... DAT ... D-D- DAT!

ace-wing... Meh.100 points... MEH. meta-think... MEH!!!

If Joe Boss Red Seven didn't say it, I was going to. The couple people that purchased three of them are going to have a blast in Epic play.

If Joe Boss Red Seven didn't say it, I was going to. The couple people that purchased three of them are going to have a blast in Epic play.

Right on my Star Brother... but you and I are gonna get six... right Brah?

Hel-Yah we are!

For when we attack our pair of Tantives... all cool and such!

What's so mediocre about the TIE SF?

Is it just the agility of 2? Or is it that it can't move 5 straight?

Those are the two things that other TIEs have better them them.

They have a wider open dial than any other TIE. They can actually maneuver in tight quarters and still fight unlike every other TIE that has extremely limited 1 speed maneuvers.

Is it mediocre because they only have 2 Attack if they are firing aux arc or dual arcs? Same with every other TIE other than Defenders, Interceptors, or Phantoms.

So. Again if you're limited in your thinking by the generic netlists you'll be disappointed by the SF. But it's just as capable and more flexible than any other TIE. You just have to give it a shot and think outside the box a bit.

No evade action. And generics 1pt too expensive.

What's so mediocre about the TIE SF?

Is it just the agility of 2? Or is it that it can't move 5 straight?

Those are the two things that other TIEs have better them them.

They have a wider open dial than any other TIE. They can actually maneuver in tight quarters and still fight unlike every other TIE that has extremely limited 1 speed maneuvers.

Is it mediocre because they only have 2 Attack if they are firing aux arc or dual arcs? Same with every other TIE other than Defenders, Interceptors, or Phantoms.

So. Again if you're limited in your thinking by the generic netlists you'll be disappointed by the SF. But it's just as capable and more flexible than any other TIE. You just have to give it a shot and think outside the box a bit.

It's all these things, coupled with their really weird, for imperials, movement profile. They're slower and less able to turn at both slow and high speeds, they don't have a K turn but do have sloops which only one other imp ship can match and not at the same speed. They're less agile, but don't gain a lot of punch in return unless you're able to use both arcs.

I think they're reasonable, especially QD, but they'll take some getting used to for us 'gottagofast' imperial types. I do think the generics won't see use though, but that wouldn't exactly be a change from most Empire ships.

It's a perfectly mediocre ship that will get perfectly demolished by Defender lists :-D

...just like my Scum ships :-(

I'll probably get 1. Backdraft impresses me somewhat, but like pre title defenders they seem a little expensive to fit in a solid 100pnt list once kitted.

If nothing else sensor clusters open up options elsewhere (hai poe!)

Dud for me. It's the ship that the Empire neither needs or wants, and which doesn't fit into any of the current archetypes.

So it's quite fresh, and opens up new possibilities?

What's so mediocre about the TIE SF?

This thing don't really moves...

FFG should overcome their fear of trying new mechanincs pricing accordingly, rather than nerfing preemptively. I thought they learned that with the defender, but apparently it's not the case.

Dud for me. It's the ship that the Empire neither needs or wants, and which doesn't fit into any of the current archetypes.

So it's quite fresh, and opens up new possibilities?

To gather dust sure.

I'm a sucker for everything that has a TIE on it. So i'll take at least one.

The only problem it has for me and my casual games, is the lack of Evade Action.

But i'm sure i will love to fly Backdraft and his powerful buttshots.

I will own 4 at some point. 3 zeta specialists and either of the aces could be great fun. Also, I am really happy that the First order is getting so fleshed out. It's got a line fighter (fo), an advanced fighter (sf), and soon its own awesome shuttle too. All first order squads are going to be a thing for me, and my second gozanti will be painted up first order.

Dud for me. It's the ship that the Empire neither needs or wants, and which doesn't fit into any of the current archetypes.

So it's quite fresh, and opens up new possibilities?

To gather dust sure.

As someone else who liked the defender before it was cool, I'd suggest trying this one out.

Overall, it's a pretty cost effective ship even without a rear arc. I continue to have success with it and my opponents are consistently surprised by the results.

Thing is it does very little ships i already own can't do, so spending £15 on it on the off chance i'll like it is not gonna happen.

Thing is it does very little ships i already own can't do, so spending £15 on it on the off chance i'll like it is not gonna happen.

If it's a cost saving measure, then, yeah, you can probably make due with previous waves.

In terms of doing things that other ships in the Empire can't? I think there are quite a few things actually. It is a three gun ship with durability that has a one forward. It is the best platform for the sensor slot in the faction and also has a tech slot. And, of course, the rear arc. The rear arc isn't always significant but there are certain match ups where it really a shines and means this ship has more time on target than any other ship. Overall, I'm repeating myself, but I'll say that at first glance I was unimpressed but I've used Omega Specs and Backdraft effectively.