Differing Opinions?!

By zazoo, in The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game

Having recently played with galadriel a lot lately she is an auto include as the best spirit hero. If you have nenya and unexpected courage on her, she's awesome. She keeps your threat under control Her card draw ability is amazing.

Galadriel is amazing even without all those toys. +1 vote for her being the best spirit hero

I must be doing something wrong because I find that Galadriel is not great and makes the first few turns very difficult because she cannot contribute to questing, defending or attacking.

One you get past that she is great though.

As much as I dont want to, I would say that Glorfindel is the most used Spirit hero. My favourite Spirit hero would have to be Arwen.

I would disagree and still see Galadriel as the better. She is great at the start to get you some cards and needed thread reduction and don't forget: Every ally you get into play will quest for free! So even if you play some chump like Envoy of Pelargir that ally will quest and get you a defense. So she is quite good for the early game to fend of early enemy attacks and let you establish your board presence AND she scales waaay better into the late game then Arwen does. It's a close call but I would give Galadriel the slight edge over Arwen.

So back to topic, for me the choices by sphere would be:

Leadership:

Best: 1st: Denethor 2nd: Armathiul 3rd: tie between Imrahil and Sam

First two are simply the most used heroes in Leadership for me right now because you get soo much out of them. Denethor get's you resources very fast and spreads them just where you need them + he can defend if you manage to get him a shield. Armathiul + Armored Destrier + Captain of Gondor is a combat powerhouse beside the fact you get a "free" second sphere icon + some resource acceleration on him! 3rd is tied because I think Sam is better but I use Imrahil more (yes I admit I like to chumpblock from time to time ;) )

Worst: Theodred

Theodred would be tied with Balin for me but since Denethor is out there is no use for Theodred anymore (at least for me).

Tactics:

Best: 1st: Legolas 2nd: Beregond 3rd: Eomer

Legolas is just the best. He is great even if he's your only tactics hero in the deck and his single hero progress making is unmatched! In the end you only win by making progress and Legolas shines in that matter + he kills of your enemies! Beregond is 2nd in there because he is just the greatest defender in this game. Get him a shield and he is set to defend. Third one is most likely a personal choice but I just like the Eomer playstyle. Chump with some cheap weekling and strike back hard with Eomer on Firefoot.:)

Worst: Dori

Two hero actions just to get a defense with +2?! Sorry not a deal for me...

Spirit:

Best: 1st: Galadriel 2nd: Arwen 3rd: tiw between Caldara and Glorfindel

Galadriel is just so powerful because you get a free action out of every ally you play in his first turn and she can keep your thread low and gets you card + access to lore "for free". That combination puts her (at least for me) above Arwen witch is really great too. Core for the Noldor stuff and generates resources in spirit without the Stargaizer+Zigi combo. Third is a tie because Caldara deck just got real with the latest stuff and my version of the Galadriel/Arwen/Caldara deck is my favorite deck to play right now. But as much as I'm sick of Glorfindel, his spirit hero version is just mind-blowing for 5! thread + his toys (Light/Asfaloth). Perfect match for Legolas too because he can use the same kind of weapons and you get questing + attack so only some defense out of your third hero is needed. But also very splas hable because he just has 5 thread (+ Light of Valinor is access able) witch allows you to use two "big" heroes in conjunction with him.

Worst: Fatty and Piipin

Both heroes are just really really really bad and have rightfully taken top spots in the worst hero contest in this forum!

Lore:

Best: 1st: Elrond 2nd: Rossiel 3rd: tie between Haldir and Pippin

Elrond has just such good stats and can get you anything you want with Vilya so clear choice for Nr. 1. Since I don't play much lore I go on with heroes I simply play the most and there comes Rossiel in at second place. I love my Rossiel secrecy deck and think that if you play her correctly a secrecy deck including her stuff + Hobbit-Gandalf really shines in multiplayer. Third choice is again a tie because Haldir pairs really well as a single hero in any deck that has access to some tactics weapons and Pippin is very splash able too. He get's you cards, low thread and two willpower for questing witch is a good all around package. But as I said Lore is my least favorite sphere so I don't play a lot of lore heroes.

Worst: probably Grima

I played him in a solo grief deck, didn't like it because there was no punsh in it and since then Grima is unused. Just not a good hero in multiplayer (which I play the most) and statwise he is weak for 9 thread.

My worst tactics hero is in solo Dori and in multiplayer... maybe Beorn or Eowyn or Thalin. None of them is bad though, and I love them all.

The OP used a best/worst criteria that amounted to like-to-play, though he clearly likes to play more powerful heroes. Like to play is very subjective, but we can easily count the number of pages for a published deck with a given hero (yes, this includes multiple versions of the same deck). At a minimum, this can give a clue for what heroes we like to publish decks for. Instead of being listed by number of pages, I list in order of release.

Let's start with Tactics heroes:

7 Legolas

4 Gimli

4 Thalin

1 Brand

4 Boromir

3 Elladan

4 Hama

3 Beorn

5 Beregond

2 Bard

1 Theoden

3 Eomer

5 Merry

4 Mablung

4 Aragorn

1 Dori

2 Eowyn

Most unpopular are Brand, Theoden, and Dori, whose decks all fit on one page. Bard and Eowyn are on two pages, though given Eowyn's recent release two pages isn't bad at all. At three pages we have Eomer, Beorn, and Elladan. Meanwhile, on the popular side Legolas is the favorite from the core set, with Beregond and Merry as the favorite from the expansions.

Repeating the same exercise for Leadership heroes:

7 Theodred

6 Aragorn

2 Gloin

3 Prince Imrahil

5 Dain

3 Elrohir

2 Thorin Oakenshield

3 Boromir

2 Balin

3 Hirluin the Fair

2 Celeborn

6 Sam Gamgee

2 Erkenbrand

3 Halbarad

4 Amarthiul

3 Faramir

6 Denethor

2 Elfhelm

Denethor is *very* popular despite his recent release, matching Sam's six page count for the expansion high. Theodred leads among the core. No one-page heroes here, even the very recent Elfhelm has made it to the second page, but he's joined there by Erkenbrand, Celeborn, Balin, Thorin, and Gloin. Least popular has to go to Gloin, since he has the potential to be in the most decks. And obviously it doesn't pay to be a dwarf.

Edited by dalestephenson

Here's the counts for lore heroes:

7 Beravor

3 Denethor

1 Glorfindel

2 Bilbo Baggins

5 Bifur

6 Aragorn

8 Elrond

3 Ori

1 Bombur

3 Mirlonde

2 Faramir

3 Grima

4 Haldir of Lorien

7 Pippin

3 Treebeard

2 Rossiel

4 Erestor

4 Damrod

2 Galdor of the Havens

Elrond tops all, but Beravor and Pippin both reach 7 pages. Meanwhile, Bombur and Glorfindel reach just one page, with Bilbo, Faramir, Rossiel, and the relatively recent Galdor on two pages. Poor overshadowed Glorfindel has to take the nod as least popular.

And finally spirit heroes:

10 Eowyn

3 Dunhere

3 Eleanor

4 Frodo Baggins

1 Dwalin

11 Glorfindel

2 Nori

2 Oin

1 Pippin

2 Caldara

2 Idraen

1 Fatty Bolger

7 Galadriel

3 Theoden

4 Merry

11 Arwen

4 Cirdan

1 Lanwyn

1 Beregond

Spirit is clearly the most boom and bust for heroes. Glorfindel and Arwen top the expansions at 11 pages, core Eowyn is just behind at 10 pages, and Galadriel has a healthy 7 pages. At the other end, there's five heroes with only one page and another four with just two pages. In the case of Beregond I think the lack of decks is temporary, though he certainly hasn't been embraced with the speed of TaEowyn, let alone LeDenethor.

Since he doesn't fall into any of the spheres, I'll note that hero Gandalf has 5 pages of decks. (His OHUH ally has six pages, and his core ally has 42 pages.)

My personal taste. Since it's hard to compare heroes that are supposed to do different things, I broke it down into 3 categories:

1. Power. The hero that is the main driving force behind a top tier power deck.

2. Splashability. The hero that is the best choice to splash in a deck to get access to that hero's sphere. Because of this, they end up in a lot of decks.

3. Resources. I value resource generation so highly that if a hero contributes to it, they get a spot in my top 3.

Tactics

Top 3:

Boromir (power)

Eowyn (splashability)

Mablung (resources)

Honorable mention: Hama (broken)

Bottom 1:

Theoden (forces an archetype that has not been supported until recently)

Dori didn't make the bottom 1 because he can be marginally useful in combination with Beregond against boss quests.

Spirit

Top 3:

Caldara (power)

Glorfindel (splashability)

Arwen (resources)

Honorable mention: Galadriel (mainly the Mirror)

Bottom 1:

Pippin (he'd probably be less hated with a blank text box, so that should tell you something)

Honorable mention: Dwalin (too quest-specific)

Leadership

Top 3:

Dain (power)

Sam (splashability)

Denethor (resources)

Honorable mention: Theodred (resources)

Bottom 1:

Imrahil (same ability as a 2-cost attachment, and actually requires you to sacrifice your board state to use it)

Lore

Top 3:

Elrond (power)

Bifur (splashability)

Grima (resources)

Honorable mention: Beravor/Erestor (card draw)

Bottom 1:

Faramir (his high threat works against his own ability)

Honorable mention: Rossiel (in my opinion, a victory display deck works best without her, making her counter to her own purpose)

...

Lore

....

Bottom 1:

Faramir (his high threat works against his own ability)

Honorable mention: Rossiel (in my opinion, a victory display deck works best without her, making her counter to her own purpose)

Hm interesting, why would you say that Rossiel doesn't work in a victory display deck? She can pay for these cards, has low starting thread and with a Light of Valinor she can be used in questing and defending where she benefits the most (+4 stats in total) out of locations and enemies in the discard pile that in most quests share common traits with other locations and enemies.

As I said initially it is great to see what others think and where the differences are.

So far there are a lot of similar opinions but not one of us has the same selections.

Just to clarify my selections are the first Heroes I reach for when designing a deck, and considering I almost always play multiplayer that will influence my selection.

Seastan had a very good point regarding resource generation, every hero that has some sort of resource generation is a top tier hero.

Rossiel benefits from victory display cards, but victory card displays do not benefit from Rossiel.

As an example, I played (two-player) with a Rossiel deck in Dwarrowdelf, with a starting threat of 19 for a first-turn Out of the Wild. When we played it, you had to make a choice between taking out the most obnoxious card and the card that most benefitted Rossiel. Without Rossiel, there'd be no thought of putting an otherwise unremarkable goblin or underground/dark location in the victory display, but with Rossiel that's usually what we did.

Then you play her wrong ;) Don't get me wrong I mean no offense but with Out of the Wild you normally hope for some nasty treachery to get rid of. Leave No Trace and Non Return are there to get you enemies and locations into the victory display.

Edited by Crabble

I was always hoping that Hidden Pitfall would show up for my Out of the Wild play, but it never did. I hate that card.

I'm not convinced I played her wrong, being able to defend or quest for 4 from the beginning for most of the quest was extremely powerful. My point is simply that what benefits *Rossiel* isn't necessarily the same as what makes the deck weaker. That's also true when you're using Leave No Trace or None Return, though in that case there's seldom a choice to be made.

Then you play her wrong ;) Don't get me wrong I mean no offense but with Out of the Wild you normally hope for some nasty treachery to get rid of. Leave No Trace and Non Return are there to get you enemies and locations into the victory display.

Which is precisely why I don't like her. She doesn't help you quest through locations until you've already quested through some, and she doesn't help you defend against enemies until you've already defended and killed some.

I've had a lot of success with Rossiel in a saga campaign (she replaced Haldir after he died to kill the Balrog). One reason she has been so handy is that so many saga quests put locations into the victory display, often with corresponding traits to ones in the deck. I have found in other situations that without the right cards out she can be slightly dead. But she's mostly there because she's the right threat level (although I sometimes wonder if Mirlonde wouldn't work just as well).

The trouble I've had with Rossiel has always been actually getting good use out of her stats, specifically her defense.

The problem usually goes something like this: If I'm going full-on victory display deck, I want to be able to recur the events, which suggests Scroll of Isildur. Scroll of Isildur suggests mono-Lore. Out of the Wild suggests secrecy, but Lore doesn't have much in the way of threat reduction, so I've got to start low, probably Pippin and Mirlonde.

But now I don't have any combat stats. I have to defend and kill something to turn Rossiel into my defender, but I can't do that with the stats I have, so I'm stuck. Even after that, I don't have the combat power to kill enemies after I pull them down. If I include some better attackers (like Haldir, I guess?) I'm mostly giving up on Out of the Wild (3 cost is pretty steep). My better bet is probably to give up on mono-Lore--maybe swap in Spirit Glorfindel for Mirlonde, and give up on Scroll of Isildur. And now I get Light of Valinor for Rossiel, which lets her use both her Willpower and her Defense! Except that I probably want LoV for Glorfindel instead, and those events are pretty expensive for not actually advancing your board state, so maybe I need to splash Leadership too for some resource acceleration, and man I wish I could put Elven Mail on Rossiel but that would require Tactics...

And then I replace Rossiel with Denethor and just build a full-on support deck.

I played Rossiel mono-lore in fellowship with a tri-sphere deck, so getting access to Light of Valinor for Rossiel wasn't too hard. Killing things with the Rossiel deck was more problematic if the Ents were slow to arrive, since I didn't have good ranged attack in the other deck. For Rossiel mono-lore solo, Out of the Wild is expensive if you don't start Mirlonde/Pippin/Rossiel, but Pippin at least gives you access to A Good Meal to reduce it and any other events. Rossiel/Pippin/SpMerry also starts in secrecy, can stay in secrecy, and Rossiel can get LoV without competition, but again you are reliant on allies for attack.

And as I noted above, I used Out of the Wild to buff Rossiel *before* killing or exploring. That's when Out of the Wild is cheap, and turning Rossiel into an excellent defender or quester was worth more to me than making the encounter deck easier (unless there is a card I really, really hate in the five.) I mulliganed for Out of the Wild.

I want to be able to recur the events, which suggests Scroll of Isildur. Scroll of Isildur suggests mono-Lore.

Just a note, the 2 core Victory display manipulation cards (Leave no Trace and None Return) both go to the Victory display themselves after being played, so there is no way to repeat them. You could repeat out of the Wild, but I tend to leave that out of my Victory Display Manipulation decks due to cost and lack of secrecy.

I had used Rossiel for awhile and she can be really good to easy keep 4 WP questing in each turn in a support deck, but it is very encounter deck dependent. The locations need to share a trait a LOT of the time. I had used her for awhile in the a fellowship group, but another players Legolas wouldn't let us keep an active location!

Something I'd like to see to help make Victory Display manipulation better - which it is already really good in a support deck - would be to get some attachment that gained a benefit for the number of non-victory cards in the victory display. It would have to come with a limit to avoid abuse.

Also, I really like how many times someone puts a hero on their list, and the next person puts them in the exact opposite category.

Edited by Slothgodfather

I want to be able to recur the events, which suggests Scroll of Isildur. Scroll of Isildur suggests mono-Lore.

Just a note, the 2 core Victory display manipulation cards (Leave no Trace and None Return) both go to the Victory display themselves after being played, so there is no way to repeat them. You could repeat out of the Wild, but I tend to leave that out of my Victory Display Manipulation decks due to cost and lack of secrecy.

just 3x Leave No Trace, 3x None Return, 1x Scout Ahead, 2x The Door is Closed!, and of course 3x Keen as Lances

Also, I really like how many times someone puts a hero on their list, and the next person puts them in the exact opposite category.

is

also as an aside, i had typed out this really long list of who i thought were my favourites and least favourites and the forums just ate it lol

here's my list without explanation cos i don't want to type it all out again

Leadership:

Amarthiul

Denethor

Theodred

least:

Boromir

Tactics

Mablung

Beregond

Hama

(one of them will likely be replaced by Imrahil and/or Eowyn)

least:

Gimli (yeah, i said it)

Spirit

Eowyn

Theoden

Arwen

Beregond has a shot on here

least:

Pippin (i actually even like Fatty for a mono blue Hobbitses deck since he can defend a bit)

Lore

Erestor

Galdor

Damrod

least:

don't really play Lore that much, but i don't like Bilbo and Grima for being much worse for multiplayer (where i think the game really shines), so i pretty much never use them

I dislike Gimli as well. I wouldn't say he is the worst, but I can't fault you that opinion. I never use him either.

I've played almost all the quests with a Eowyn/Gimli/Thalin deck (descended from the second deck in Beorn's Path), and I think of it as "the Gimli deck". He's easy to ramp up and doesn't require much in the way of card support, and it's just fun to kill stuff. However, he's more of a "miscellaneous attacking hero" than part of any particular tribal or combo deck, and most of the other attacking heroes do have some synergy with particular kinds of decks. His get-banged-up-then-attack makes him most similar to Beorn as a hero, I think.

I dislike Gimli as well. I wouldn't say he is the worst, but I can't fault you that opinion. I never use him either.

if i were to pick say a bottom 3 list, i'd much more easily pick it for Leadership, Spirit, and Lore and would have trouble with Tactics

even the worst Tactics hero is better than many other heroes of the other spheres

Well know I'm curious what would be everyone's 3 worst for each sphere. Here is my list:

Leadership:

Halbarad - While the 2/2/2 stat-line can be versatile, I find his traits keep him from being "good" lacking synergy with Gondor or Noldor/Silvan attachments/events. He has a built in action advantage, however you likely have to use it defending against the enemy you keep engaged with you (baring Forest Snare), so you really aren't gaining anything. Without an enemy engaged, he quests for 2. With an enemy engaged, he quests for 2 and then likely has to defend against said enemy. Net gain of a risky shadow card. Not worth it. His other ability is too situational and often useless.

Faramir - I'm normally a big fan of abilities that give ready characters, but his threat/keyword for lack luster stats is off putting. Again, his traits hamper his effectiveness due to no good/reliable weapons. As a ranged character, his other stats are not really relevant, making them a waste vs his threat cost. High threat hampers the use of Dagger of Westernesse, the only weapon he can use to get +2 attack without Elf-Friend.

Elfhelm - He's only on her because he seems like he would be terrible for solo play and takes a fair amount of coordination for group play. Granted, some mounts - such as Rohan Warhorse - are used often in Fellowships, but I'm not sure that alone is worth taking up an entire Hero slot for no other gains.

Spirit:

Fatty - well all know it.

Pippin - this is a given as well.

Dwalin - simply because I had to put a third on here. He works for thematic decks and against the right scenario but is the most situational. Oin is close behind but isn't encounter specific.

Lore:

Bombur - sure you can make use of him in thematic decks, but he's still one of the worst Lore has to offer

Faramir - talk about a conflict of interests! High threat, mid-ling stats, ranged and a buff that is counter to high-threat... He is also in the way of Ally Faramir.

Glorfindel - Sure, easy access to Asfolof, but that is not worth that starting threat or garbage ability.

Tactics:

Beorn - I feel like with his 1 shield and immunity, against today's high damage monsters or nightmare quests, he isn't as useful as I'd want in a hero. I will admit I need to use him more to better judge, but I have played with the other tactics heroes a lot and find them reliable, so he makes the cut.

Brand son of Bain - Sure, he's got a built in standing ability, but it is only useful if that other player has multiple enemies engaged and his single trait is restrictive to good attachments.

Thalin - He is fun to use to clip every enemy that comes out, but often that 1 damage doesn't amount to much. Without Dain, his 1 WP isn't much either. He is good for killing ravens, but that's about it.

I think the value of Brand's ability is directly proportional to the exhaust abilities on the deck he's helping. I paired Brand in a fellowship opposite a Three Rings deck, so even if there was only one enemy to destroy, he could ready Galadriel for her ability or Elrond for Vilya or Gandalf for Word of Command. Allies like Gleowine are also excellent.