...I think many many people will take the 50/50 shot to drop soontirs stealth device vs the 0% chance they have now.

I thought he kept his stealth device, since it's not an attack ?

I also think that BMST is basically the "fix" for the T-65 that everyone wants. The two points that everyone said was bad on the X-wing was the point cost and lack of repositioning (due to PTL Arc Dodgers). Integrated Astromech solves the point cost well enough and if there are no PTL Arc Dodgers (even A-wings) then X-wings don't need to have it, either. Jousting becomes a fiable ship and X-wings are worth taking again.

... the fact that the X-wing is still a pure jouster that can't joust as well as ships that can joust AND at the very least barrel-roll too

Why is the X-wing a jouster that can't joust as well as other ships? It had issues before Integrated Astromech, but it's not bad now. I don't get it.

I also think that BMST is basically the "fix" for the T-65 that everyone wants. The two points that everyone said was bad on the X-wing was the point cost and lack of repositioning (due to PTL Arc Dodgers). Integrated Astromech solves the point cost well enough and if there are no PTL Arc Dodgers (even A-wings) then X-wings don't need to have it, either. Jousting becomes a fiable ship and X-wings are worth taking again.

... the fact that the X-wing is still a pure jouster that can't joust as well as ships that can joust AND at the very least barrel-roll too

Why is the X-wing a jouster that can't joust as well as other ships? It had issues before Integrated Astromech, but it's not bad now. I don't get it.

I'm confused as to how these hose Attani Mindlink squads. I've recently become obsessed with Guri, Palob, Manaroo and BMST doesn't really affect it. Will I have to be careful when doing the extremely occasional sloop? Yes. It's not like I'm gonna face enough BMST that they'll be able to take advantage of the fact that I have multiple stressed ships.

But I will be taking one BMST (and only one) and I think it'll change the list dynamics a lot. It's not hard at all to put a PtL ace in a position where they need to PtL to safety. Either stay where you are and take what's coming to you, or PtL and risk getting sliced.

If I miss, it costs an action. Oh well, I usually get about 5-7 free actions a turn.

At 1 point, I don't really care if I never use it. But ships find themselves stressed plenty often, even if they aren't designed for it (K-turns and debris, for instance).

There are some unintended casualties of this card like Tycho, but it would be hard to counter PtL imperial aces without hurting a few rebs and scum too. We're 10 waves in and the field is a little crowded for such a targeted fix.

Since it's release in wave 2, Push the Limit has been the undisputed most used card in the game. It's time it becomes less auto-include.

My concern will only come from a few items. (1) Will this change the entire way the game behaves (as established by the standards rules) and (2) Will it remove/nerf/destroy a pilot ability.

Let me start with the less important and go the other direction (opposite on how you are suppose to write).

In regards to (2), it does Nerf some pilot abilities - basically Tycho, Soontir, Keyan,(I am sure some others). I don't believe they needed to be nerf. Soontir while SOOOOO awesome does have his limitations and becomes powerful with card combinations that has come out over time. Soontir with Palpatine is what made him an issue. Now Tycho is a full casualty because his whole pilot ability resoled that stress did not affect him at all and therefore BMST should not affect him, but that is....cumbersome to address. So one of the best pilots ever is no longer...viable. .

Full disclosure I flew a 3 A-Wing list last year, fairly competitively. This year I flew Keyan in Regionals. As a slightly below medium skilled pilot (with bouts of stupidness) I still ran these guys competitively. But who cares about just tournaments. Some of us like to be "Competitive" with interesting and fun lists.

In regards to Zuckuss crew member (Dengaroo build as an example)...that is an add on and I am completely ok with that becoming a risk. Since Zuckuss modifies the game behavior (1) then perfectly ok with something smacking it back.

In regards to (1), PTL has been a long standing action economy that had a negative impact of being a stress. Only over time as the game has grown has stress became less important (like a large ship having better maneuver dials than fighters/bombers - looking at you SCUM). While most are looking at PTL, what about just normal maneuvers? This gives huge advantage to Scum ships that have greens coming out of their arses and messes with nearly all older ships that is not a Defender with a white K-Turn and Ryad (which I flew at GenCon this year). How many ships have a maneuver that is red and causes stress?

This is where my problem is centered. Part of DOGFIGHTING is to loop back around on your opponent or go a little faster or turn a little harder. In the CORE of this game this is penalized by a stress saying the maneuver took all the pilots effort preventing them from target locking, evading, and focusing. NOW this also means they have a 50% chance of being damaged to their hull for taking a K-turn or in my case a 3-bank (Keyan). ****...that Scum Stealth device is looking better everyday with way better odds.

This in effect changes the CORE aspect of the game. Now you could be penalized for a basic maneuver and any low hull ship can be half dead by FLYING.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now lets get to the personally issue I have with this card.

If it was a non-maneuver stress and only damage on shields.....but how does a computer hack damage the hull? Drop shields...sure. Turn off an engine changing speed? Sure. Lock in ...however these things turn so they do an erratic move left or right? Why not. But damage on the Hull? Really? With what? Digits? Thought this was table-top.

As a Telecoms Engineer...this last part is driving me crazy as it is so...absurd. I hacked your ship and now your front quarter panel has crumbled and totaled your ship. Happy flying!!! Hope insurance covers.

I also think that BMST is basically the "fix" for the T-65 that everyone wants. The two points that everyone said was bad on the X-wing was the point cost and lack of repositioning (due to PTL Arc Dodgers). Integrated Astromech solves the point cost well enough and if there are no PTL Arc Dodgers (even A-wings) then X-wings don't need to have it, either. Jousting becomes a fiable ship and X-wings are worth taking again.

... the fact that the X-wing is still a pure jouster that can't joust as well as ships that can joust AND at the very least barrel-roll too

Why is the X-wing a jouster that can't joust as well as other ships? It had issues before Integrated Astromech, but it's not bad now. I don't get it.

Because it's outjousted by

1. swarm

2. JM5ks

3. defenders

Not a top jouster, and in tournament level "not top" means "stay on the shelf, dust-gatherer"

BMST is a dumb hard counter to PTL. That's it.

As for Xs, 22 points for 3 shields, 3 hull, 3 attack, 2 def is really some pretty good efficiency.

Seeing recent results on the table, I'd be game to try Biggs + 3 Rookies + R2D2.

If only the list could do counter list vs both Torp Scouts and Dengaroo. Oh wait, you can't Cuz large ships have no counter.

Its an okay card in my mind.

Does it hurt Palp Aces and other PTL users- possibly, depending on how many BMST you have in your list and whether the dice are in your favor. It is a 50/50 chance each time- but you only get one shot per turn. Overall, that's not a whole lot better than getting a shot in on a tokenless Ace. The benefit is that it is only one point, and uses the Illicit slot that a lot of Scum ships don't use all that often.

Will it change the meta- again possibly, we'll see how the tourney players change up Palp Aces to accommodate and whether or not Dengaroo will be switched out for something different. Personally, I think we'll see quite a few BMST-heavy lists pop up in the first few months after release, but that will trickle out eventually. After a while it will just be a card you throw in as insurance, or if you've got a couple of points left over and an empty slot.

I don't believe this is the end of PTL Aces or Stress stackers like Tycho/Dengar. It will indeed hurt them, but not nearly as bad as some of the doom-callers have said.

There is only one design flaw in Black Market Slicer Tools. Damage Card dealt instead of damage done.

If they wanted to take away imperial ptl users they worded it wrong. They are pushing away a-wings, e-wings and plenty of low hull ships that didn't need that nerf.

BMST is a dumb hard counter to PTL. That's it.

As for Xs, 22 points for 3 shields, 3 hull, 3 attack, 2 def is really some pretty good efficiency.

Seeing recent results on the table, I'd be game to try Biggs + 3 Rookies + R2D2.

If only the list could do counter list vs both Torp Scouts and Dengaroo. Oh wait, you can't Cuz large ships have no counter.

it's a direct counter to any stress-mechanic, and can possibly be used well in conjunction to ability to deal that stress

If we do come up with it, it'd work perfectly well.

and yes, it does also work against stressed jousters who k-turned, zuckuss-lovers and so on.

so nope, not that dumb. PTL is simply the most overpowered and as such over-used stress-mechanic

BMST is a dumb hard counter to PTL. That's it.

As for Xs, 22 points for 3 shields, 3 hull, 3 attack, 2 def is really some pretty good efficiency.

Seeing recent results on the table, I'd be game to try Biggs + 3 Rookies + R2D2.

If only the list could do counter list vs both Torp Scouts and Dengaroo. Oh wait, you can't Cuz large ships have no counter.

it's a direct counter to any stress-mechanic, and can possibly be used well in conjunction to ability to deal that stress

If we do come up with it, it'd work perfectly well.

and yes, it does also work against stressed jousters who k-turned, zuckuss-lovers and so on.

so nope, not that dumb. PTL is simply the most overpowered and as such over-used stress-mechanic

Seriously. PTL has historically been by far and away the single most common EPT in the high-level game (though it's possible Deadeye may have overtaken it of late), and among the most common upgrades overall, closely followed by VI and Crack Shot.

Making PTL less prevalent will hopefully go some way to diversifying the meta - but sadly I think this will only work if an associated nerf to Scouts also occurs, either making them unique or removing their EPT slot.

It's a shame that Tycho gets hit so hard by it though. They ought to errata his pilot ability to 'You cannot receive stress tokens. You cannot perform red manoeuvres.' to compensate for Slicer Tools basically rendering him irrelevant.

PTL needs to go. Probably the single most problematic card in the game at present (including Palpatine and Scouts), it repeatedly crops up in builds that are annoying to play against. The economy it gives you is huge and that it works so well with only a few specific ships really limits diversity.

Making PTL unique would be interesting. The same way EI is, and EI is rarely considered broken. Indeed, rarely used at all.

Why is the X-wing a jouster that can't joust as well as other ships? It had issues before Integrated Astromech, but it's not bad now. I don't get it.

2 dice with 5 health isn't that great still

It's not that bad. It's comparable to a lot of other jousters.

Why is the X-wing a jouster that can't joust as well as other ships? It had issues before Integrated Astromech, but it's not bad now. I don't get it.

Because it's outjousted by

1. swarm

2. JM5ks

3. defenders

Not a top jouster, and in tournament level "not top" means "stay on the shelf, dust-gatherer"

1) Well, there are things to do vs. Swarms. Remember, it doesn't have to be a 3 ship list. You can go with a mix of ships and have 4-6 different ships in your list. You can fight swarms with a number of things. You can get Assault Missiles and even Ion Torpedoes. You don't have to take only T-65's. Put some variety in your list.

2) If you have a list of 4-6 ships that can burn down a JM5K before it can fire, you can win vs. these guys.

3) I've not seen Defenders vs. T-65's in action, but the same idea. You can go with a list of 4-6 jousters and they do run out of tokens.

(Snip)

In regards to (2), it does Nerf some pilot abilities - basically Tycho, Soontir, Keyan,(I am sure some others).

(Snip)

I'm not completely disregarding what you're saying, but just a small pointer: Keyan will not be as harsly affected. In most scenario, he clears his own stress before BMST comes into effect. The only exceptions are scenarios where BMST is used by a higher PS carrier (who could probably use his action for something more devastating) or if Keyan failed to have a target in arc (Scum are interesting, but their entire fleet is not designed around arc dodging in the same fashion as the Empire).

Why is the X-wing a jouster that can't joust as well as other ships? It had issues before Integrated Astromech, but it's not bad now. I don't get it.

2 dice with 5 health isn't that great still

It's not that bad. It's comparable to a lot of other jousters.

Why is the X-wing a jouster that can't joust as well as other ships? It had issues before Integrated Astromech, but it's not bad now. I don't get it.

Because it's outjousted by

1. swarm

2. JM5ks

3. defenders

Not a top jouster, and in tournament level "not top" means "stay on the shelf, dust-gatherer"

1) Well, there are things to do vs. Swarms. Remember, it doesn't have to be a 3 ship list. You can go with a mix of ships and have 4-6 different ships in your list. You can fight swarms with a number of things. You can get Assault Missiles and even Ion Torpedoes. You don't have to take only T-65's. Put some variety in your list.

2) If you have a list of 4-6 ships that can burn down a JM5K before it can fire, you can win vs. these guys.

3) I've not seen Defenders vs. T-65's in action, but the same idea. You can go with a list of 4-6 jousters and they do run out of tokens.

It's a bit different than just that. For the same points you get lower output. That's it, you may take something else, but in the end it comes out that it's now a dead weight. You could have spent points on something better.

No problems with JM5k, problem with palp aces burning everything that burns JMs. Nobody wants super-strict rock-paper-scissors taht can't be won using hands and brains.

You can, but so far there's nothing that can reach such absurd levels of action economy as Defenders. They have Inquisitor level of action economy, without stressing themselves.

can't call it less than "AW WHAT THE HELL"

I don't know if you need action economy if you can get two jousters vs. the one action economy version. They tend to cancel each other out as it's two ships firing and removing tokens.

What would be a "better" option in a Rebel list? If you don't have to worry about Jousters being terrible, then having something like BBBBZ or XXXXZ works well enough.

I'd expect BBBBZ or XXXXZ to lose a ship to trip defenders before firing, though. If you're gonna joust, you either need to shoot first and take an opponent off the board, or at least take his tokens, or you need to reliably retain all your shooting power for as long as possible. Neither of those lists can do either of those things in the world of Dengaroo, /x7s, and Crack Swarms.

I also think that BMST is basically the "fix" for the T-65 that everyone wants. The two points that everyone said was bad on the X-wing was the point cost and lack of repositioning (due to PTL Arc Dodgers). Integrated Astromech solves the point cost well enough and if there are no PTL Arc Dodgers (even A-wings) then X-wings don't need to have it, either. Jousting becomes a fiable ship and X-wings are worth taking again.

... the fact that the X-wing is still a pure jouster that can't joust as well as ships that can joust AND at the very least barrel-roll too

Why is the X-wing a jouster that can't joust as well as other ships? It had issues before Integrated Astromech, but it's not bad now. I don't get it.

Because it's outjousted by

1. swarm

2. JM5ks

3. defenders

Not a top jouster, and in tournament level "not top" means "stay on the shelf, dust-gatherer"

What it actually means is

"Oh that's okay, you can do something ELSE right?"

"...oh only Biggs and Wes can? Guess that's the only way you'll ever see play!"

I'd expect BBBBZ or XXXXZ to lose a ship to trip defenders before firing, though.

Doubtful for the b or x, but the z95 certainly could. But that still leaves the 4 ships firing 12-16 dice with a focus for each attack as well. Unless the defenders are at range 3, even turtled up with focus and evade they are gonna take damage, probably lose their shields.

A bit off track from the subject but how long til we see a title card from scum "Black market ship" that lets you take any non-scum non-unique pilot ship into a scum list?

There are so many quality imperial ships already that don't use PTL that I don't think BMST will matter all that much:

Omega leader

Whisper

Echo

Wampa

Brath

Stele

Vader

Vessery

Etc etc etc

• Omega Leader is a TIE/fo. He's good against a single target but he's a 2 die ship.

I agree. The main difference is a ps1 Z-95 with feedback has to get into, and stay into Range 1 for combat.

BMST gets to act before the ace moves. Way easier. 360 degrees of use makes it even easier than a bomb.

That said, if it was more than 1 point, I wouldn't see it as all that useful, but for 1 point it is a nice addition to an illicit list. I'm looking forward to Asajj with tactician.

It will literally have no effect whatsoever. You have a 50% chance to do damage at the cost of your action. That is horrible. Feedback array is a much stronger and consistent ace killer but you don't see it either. People will try the BMST when it comes out, realize it sucks and it will go into the junk card box.

This is so far off from reality. Having already used BMST a few times I can safely say that it is on par with Feedback Array (and you do see it in top levels of play, btw). It becomes even better than feedback because it is a point cheaper AND deals damage directly to hull (bypassing shields) allowing it to threaten even the likes of Dash Rendar. It absolutely will not be relagated to 'the junk card box'.

If nothing else, it is definitely auto-include on Ventress (and she is without a doubt a top tier ship, possibly the best thing coming in Wave 9). So that alone will guarantee BMST sees regular use even at the highest competitive levels. And I think you will see it on other ships as well thanks to how cheap it is.

I dont know the fuss about Black market slicer tools. Its a coin flip and eats your action. If range 2 is enough (well, nobody uses turrets with 1-2), whats the plan? Make a swarm of it?