Strangling A-Wings, TAPs, E-Wings, and Scyks? You mean like Palp Aces does?

You do understand that if this card did "1 damage" instead of "1 damage card" that it would have the same effect on Palp Aces, Inquisitor excuded? Right?

This card could have been good. Would have been good, were it not for "1 damage card." All that does is screw over ships that absolutely did not need to be screwed over.

Actually, the wrong writed card is PTL.

Anyway, why Scyk? They don't play on stress. And if the entire game will play without extra actions well, welcome back original X-Wing

Lord Vader wants a word.

Jeeeeesus.

Did PTL Greens really need nerfing? Did PTL TAP Barons really need nerfing? Did K-turning Scyks really need nerfing? Did the Atanni Mindlink card really need nerfing?

No, none of these things needed nerfing.

Say whatever you want about ships like Soontir ... I'm not even commenting on them, explicitly or implicitly.

I'm saying that this stupid card reaches way further than it should, weakening ships that absolutely didn't need weakening, and doing it in a way that could have easily been avoided.

I realize that a lot of people here are incapable of grasping that people do -- or might want to in the future -- play ships that you don't even think about. But good design would take those ships into consideration, and good design critique likewise takes those ships into consideration.

I realize that a lot of people here are incapable of grasping that people do -- or might want to in the future -- play ships that you don't even think about. But good design would take those ships into consideration, and good design critique likewise takes those ships into consideration.

Unless you exclusively play 4x TAP and 4x Green Squad, all with PTL, against your friend who consistently brings 7x Scum Z-95, this is absolutely not the nightmare scenario you are envisioning. In order for a ship to die to this card by cheating shields, the Slicer player has to catch you with your pants down TWICE. After they catch you with your pants down the first time, stop giving yourself stress in risky situations.

Besides, the weird lists you're describing, where every ship in it uses PtL and can't survive without it, those lists can already be wrecked by things like Rebel Captive, Tactician and Thermal Detonator. So...relax. It really won't be as bad as you think. Promise.

As a person who really was excited to try Vectored Thrusters on Tycho... That is no longer possible. All 2 Hull ships are hosed.

Basically this is Wampa for all Scum.

For those that say this has no impact or minimal, you are only looking at the current meta and not the game holistically.

Maybe if you have personally experienced this situation you could understand, but I suspect most do not fly 2 Hull ships and really don't care to play lots of options.

As a person who really was excited to try Vectored Thrusters on Tycho... That is no longer possible. All 2 Hull ships are hosed.

Basically this is Wampa for all Scum.

For those that say this has no impact or minimal, you are only looking at the current meta and not the game holistically.

Maybe if you have personally experienced this situation you could understand, but I suspect most do not fly 2 Hull ships and really don't care to play lots of options.

Exactly. Everybody is so completely tunnel-visioned on the ships that are currently most popular that they are incapable of seeing the big picture. I mean, one guy above categorizes a PTL Green (PS 3) at Range 1-2 of a BMST ship and stressed as "getting caught with his pants down." I mean ... wut?

But man, Tycho sure did need to be nerfed. That's just impossible to deny. Waaaaay too strong, that Tycho.

I wonder how popular Wampa would be if instead of a 23% chance to trigger on an attack, he had a 50% chance ... and still got to attack? And you could take multiples of him? I mean, you'd have to find stressed ships to pick on, and that's gonna be practically impossible!

As a person who really was excited to try Vectored Thrusters on Tycho... That is no longer possible. All 2 Hull ships are hosed.

Basically this is Wampa for all Scum.

For those that say this has no impact or minimal, you are only looking at the current meta and not the game holistically.

Maybe if you have personally experienced this situation you could understand, but I suspect most do not fly 2 Hull ships and really don't care to play lots of options.

Exactly. Everybody is so completely tunnel-visioned on the ships that are currently most popular that they are incapable of seeing the big picture. I mean, one guy above categorizes a PTL Green (PS 3) at Range 1-2 of a BMST ship and stressed as "getting caught with his pants down." I mean ... wut?

But man, Tycho sure did need to be nerfed. That's just impossible to deny. Waaaaay too strong, that Tycho.

I wonder how popular Wampa would be if instead of a 23% chance to trigger on an attack, he had a 50% chance ... and still got to attack? And you could take multiples of him? I mean, you'd have to find stressed ships to pick on, and that's gonna be practically impossible!

I think exactely the opposite. Two Z-95 is needed to make (maybe) 1 single hull dmg into a stressed ship.

I mean: wow...is a Z-95 so difficult to avoid?

Mindlink, u mean stressed squad? Tell me how many Z-95 you need to take out 1 Scyk :-/

And yes, I say z-95 because this 50% possibility of an hull damage cost AN-ENTIRE-ACTION.

Sssso....do you wanna spend that action with an Aggressor/Firespray/Shadocwaster/etc? Maybe, if we are talking about a Fel, an Inquisitor, a Phantom...not surely to do 1 dmg over a Scyk, a Green Pilot or whatever.

And of course, you cant do it if you bump. Still an action.

Actually, I think is your point of view that's sticked into a tunnel :-/

Maybe the intent of BMST was to stop PTL Arc Dodging for everyone, not just Interceptors. It sure seems like the game designers want to actually have ships joust again. Maybe it's fine to stop A-wings from being able to do it and Interceptors not.

Strangling A-Wings, TAPs, E-Wings, and Scyks? You mean like Palp Aces does?

You do understand that if this card did "1 damage" instead of "1 damage card" that it would have the same effect on Palp Aces, Inquisitor excuded? Right?

This card could have been good. Would have been good, were it not for "1 damage card." All that does is screw over ships that absolutely did not need to be screwed over.

Actually, the wrong writed card is PTL.

Anyway, why Scyk? They don't play on stress. And if the entire game will play without extra actions well, welcome back original X-Wing

Lord Vader wants a word.

Well...Lord Vader still Lord Vader. He can <3

Maybe the intent of BMST was to stop PTL Arc Dodging for everyone, not just Interceptors. It sure seems like the game designers want to actually have ships joust again. Maybe it's fine to stop A-wings from being able to do it and Interceptors not.

Maybe. How does "1 facedown damage" do that?

Are you saying that it might be the intent of the designers to nerf a 20-point PTL Green harder than 35-point Soontir?

I mean, anything's possible, I guess.

But if that wasn't the actual intent -- to rein in those out-of-control PTL Greens -- then it's a badly designed card. (And if it was the actual intent, then it's idiotic. I prefer to give the benefit of the doubt.)

Harder? Maybe not intentionally harder, but nerf all the PTL arc dodgers, yes. I think it's an acceptable amount of collateral damage to remove the Soontir Fels of the game. No more PTL arc dodging...for anyone, or you risk the BMST. I'm fine with that.

And if the entire game will play without extra actions well, welcome back original X-Wing

Seeing as Vader existed since wave 1 and PtL since wave 2, I don't think you know what you are saying.

Jeeeeesus.

Did PTL Greens really need nerfing? Did PTL TAP Barons really need nerfing? Did K-turning Scyks really need nerfing? Did the Atanni Mindlink card really need nerfing?

No, none of these things needed nerfing.

Say whatever you want about ships like Soontir ... I'm not even commenting on them, explicitly or implicitly.

I'm saying that this stupid card reaches way further than it should, weakening ships that absolutely didn't need weakening, and doing it in a way that could have easily been avoided.

I realize that a lot of people here are incapable of grasping that people do -- or might want to in the future -- play ships that you don't even think about. But good design would take those ships into consideration, and good design critique likewise takes those ships into consideration.

No one was using PtL Greens or PtL TAPs competively.

So the E-Wing? No one plays them except for PtL Corran. Good, **** Corran, regen NPE cabbage.

A-Wings? Okay, pick any of the other wonderful EPT options they have, most A-Wing players go with Crackshot and Adaptability. And no one uses Tycho anyways.

TAPs? Firstly, **** the Inquisitor. Secondly, no one is currently using Barons with PtL.

Scyks? Lol.

All of the stuff you listed isn't played that much already, or is part of the problem. If you made BMST a damage instead of a damage card, it would kill the card. You'd have to BMST an Inquisitor 8 times on average and it would do nothing to Corran since he'd just regen it.

The primary reason you don't see PtL Barons or PtL Greens or Scyks that often is because of Palp Aces. If BMST's calmed Palp Aces down, those ships would actually become a little more playable.

And for the sake of argument, let's say that you're correct. Worth it in order to curb the dominance of Palp Aces.

And if the entire game will play without extra actions well, welcome back original X-Wing

Seeing as Vader existed since wave 1 and PtL since wave 2, I don't think you know what you are saying.

I know both. And I still saying it.

As a person who really was excited to try Vectored Thrusters on Tycho... That is no longer possible. All 2 Hull ships are hosed.

Basically this is Wampa for all Scum.

For those that say this has no impact or minimal, you are only looking at the current meta and not the game holistically.

Maybe if you have personally experienced this situation you could understand, but I suspect most do not fly 2 Hull ships and really don't care to play lots of options.

I am okay with sacrificng PtL Tycho in order to curb Palp Aces (and also Dengaroo).

If Palp Aces was eliminated from the meta, we'd have much more variety in the game than our current meta + Tycho.

Just wondering what you guys think on this.

Not wondering, but simply hoping.

Hoping that it will put fear of God in them, like the stress-rebels did a year before

And if the entire game will play without extra actions well, welcome back original X-Wing

Seeing as Vader existed since wave 1 and PtL since wave 2, I don't think you know what you are saying.

Clearly when we complain about Soontir or ships using PtL, we are not complaining about the wave 1 or 2 incarnations of them. We also don't think Sabre Squadrons or Green Squadrons with PtL ruin the game either.

We understand that PtL and Vader and Soontir have been around since the beginning of the game. They functioned completely differently back then. Soontir wasn't invincible, Vader sucked, and anything you put PtL on back then didn't ruin the game, it just became moderately powerful.

What he meant by that is ships like the Inquisitor or Soontir that get 3 actions a turn plus Palpatine and Autothrusters.

So no sir, it is you that doesn't know what he is saying.

So instead of Soontir, you will have Vader, and instead of the Inquisitor, you'll have Vessery.

I dunno, something like:

Vader: VI, EU, X1, ATC

Vessery: Juke(or VI, or Crackshot...), Mk2, X7

OGP: Palpatine

Total: 100(99)

Could even do Rexlar with VI so you care little for Init bids, or Merrik with Calc if you wanted as well. Vessery is probably the best option. maybe I'm just trying to squeeze my ol pal Vader in with his best wingman, me(rrik)!

I suppose Whisper and Omega Leader could do well as well...

Edit: right, autothrusters. Huh. For some reason I keep forgetting about it, so yeah, it'll probably be more polite without those hanging around. Perhaps people will still use Soontir and the Inquistor, and simply be more careful about how they use their stress, and only pop it when it's safe.

You know, you can use the Inquisitor without PTL. He's still not bad. He grabs the TL and gets an Evade. That's action economy. Oh, it's not arc dodging, but it's not bad.

As a person who really was excited to try Vectored Thrusters on Tycho... That is no longer possible. All 2 Hull ships are hosed.

Basically this is Wampa for all Scum.

For those that say this has no impact or minimal, you are only looking at the current meta and not the game holistically.

Maybe if you have personally experienced this situation you could understand, but I suspect most do not fly 2 Hull ships and really don't care to play lots of options.

Exactly. Everybody is so completely tunnel-visioned on the ships that are currently most popular that they are incapable of seeing the big picture. I mean, one guy above categorizes a PTL Green (PS 3) at Range 1-2 of a BMST ship and stressed as "getting caught with his pants down." I mean ... wut?

But man, Tycho sure did need to be nerfed. That's just impossible to deny. Waaaaay too strong, that Tycho.

I wonder how popular Wampa would be if instead of a 23% chance to trigger on an attack, he had a 50% chance ... and still got to attack? And you could take multiples of him? I mean, you'd have to find stressed ships to pick on, and that's gonna be practically impossible!

I think exactely the opposite. Two Z-95 is needed to make (maybe) 1 single hull dmg into a stressed ship.

I mean: wow...is a Z-95 so difficult to avoid?

Mindlink, u mean stressed squad? Tell me how many Z-95 you need to take out 1 Scyk :-/

And yes, I say z-95 because this 50% possibility of an hull damage cost AN-ENTIRE-ACTION.

Sssso....do you wanna spend that action with an Aggressor/Firespray/Shadocwaster/etc? Maybe, if we are talking about a Fel, an Inquisitor, a Phantom...not surely to do 1 dmg over a Scyk, a Green Pilot or whatever.

And of course, you cant do it if you bump. Still an action.

Actually, I think is your point of view that's sticked into a tunnel :-/

You guys do know what happens if fel and other auto thruster ships go out of the meta right? Han comes back and destroys non auto thruster ships. Which I'm actually ok with lol.

You guys do know what happens if fel and other auto thruster ships go out of the meta right? Han comes back and destroys non auto thruster ships. Which I'm actually ok with lol.

oh yeah, all those TLTs and torpscouts are just quaking in fear at the return of fat han

...I think many many people will take the 50/50 shot to drop soontirs stealth device vs the 0% chance they have now.

I thought he kept his stealth device, since it's not an attack ?

You guys do know what happens if fel and other auto thruster ships go out of the meta right? Han comes back and destroys non auto thruster ships. Which I'm actually ok with lol.

Actually, I think U-boats can handle Fat Han. Or...all the other ordnance ships. Also, the cheap Z-95's with BMST are great for blocking. As long as you can block that 2 sharp turn you know is coming, then you should be fine.

I also think that BMST is basically the "fix" for the T-65 that everyone wants. The two points that everyone said was bad on the X-wing was the point cost and lack of repositioning (due to PTL Arc Dodgers). Integrated Astromech solves the point cost well enough and if there are no PTL Arc Dodgers (even A-wings) then X-wings don't need to have it, either. Jousting becomes a fiable ship and X-wings are worth taking again.

You guys do know what happens if fel and other auto thruster ships go out of the meta right? Han comes back and destroys non auto thruster ships. Which I'm actually ok with lol.

Actually, I think U-boats can handle Fat Han. Or...all the other ordnance ships. Also, the cheap Z-95's with BMST are great for blocking. As long as you can block that 2 sharp turn you know is coming, then you should be fine.

I also think that BMST is basically the "fix" for the T-65 that everyone wants. The two points that everyone said was bad on the X-wing was the point cost and lack of repositioning (due to PTL Arc Dodgers). Integrated Astromech solves the point cost well enough and if there are no PTL Arc Dodgers (even A-wings) then X-wings don't need to have it, either. Jousting becomes a fiable ship and X-wings are worth taking again.

ner, BMSTs do nothing to address the fact that the X-wing is still a pure jouster that can't joust as well as ships that can joust AND at the very least barrel-roll too

even had BMSTs been an astromech, the x would still be crap. They'd be really nice on rebel Ys, though, as TLTs are still pretty punchy even without mods and the Y rarely has to k-turn (due to TLT coverage) so it would be free to spam BMST droids to their hearts' content

You know, the Inquisitor with "A Score to Settle", title, and Autothrusters is 28 points. Compared to the PTL version, it has a full dial, but less repositioning ability, less offensive power overall (but better offense vs a specific target). You also can't do the Focus/Evade stack. This seems like a solid build for 28 points. Some thing like Juke, Outmaneuver, VI, or any other of the solid B-tier EPTs are still going to be solid just because his ability and title are so good.