Hi guys.

With all this talk about Dengaroo I wanted to try it out.

Truth is, I don't understand why people are saying that it's one of the best lists out there?

I've lost way more games with it, than I've won. Like A LOT more.

Usually one of two things happen. Either Dengar dies or Manaroo dies. Simple as that. I simply don't see how this list is supposed to be good against anything other than swarms.

So, I did some digging. Read what is available and listened to a podcast, where Jesper Hill where talking about this 8th wonder of the world. Cool stuff, he seemed confident enough, so I googled Jesper Hill/Dengaroo and found a video.

In the video, Jesper plays vs double scout + Zuckuss. Cool, I thought, lets see one of the worlds best players pilot the sxxx out of Dengar.

What actually happened was that Jesper moved forward. Then moved forward again. Then ate a torpedo, loosing all Dengars shields, and finally asteroided himself (and this was actually the best choice he had) and then Dengar meltet in a barrage of laser. Wow. I can really see how that list is breaking the meta.

So I read some more, and it turns out, that Dengaroo is amazing if it's NOT playing against; Corran Horn, Dash, Palp Aces, Brobots, tripple scouts, double scouts, Bossk, Fat Han ... Actually, from what I gather, it's really, really good against swarms. And yes, it is. Anything with tokens or high damage output just melts Dengar.

Dengar, shooting at a fully tokened up Soontir out of arc or at range 3, has 0 percent chance of actually doing any damage to him unless he rolls 4 hits, and even then, Fel has to roll all blanks (token, thrusters, palp) I have a hard time considering a list, that has no realistic chance of killing one of the most popular pilots in the game.

I just don't get the fuzz. It might just be me that's too new in the game, but I have a very hard time seeing how everyone can love this list so much. I like the idea, but Dengar is still to easy to kill, apart from his countermeasure turn and when he's dead, it's over.

To put it simply. Kill Dengar in that list, and you've won the game, since Manaroo is squishy and doesn't have any output.

Well, that's my two cents. I hope someone can enlighten me on how this has taken the world by storm.

I have been running this list for a few weeks now with great success! I run:

Dengar

Lone wolf

Plasma torpedoes

Counter measure

Zuckuss

Punishing one

R5-p8

Glitterati

Manaroo

Push the limit

Engine upgrade

Recon specialist

Unhinged astromech

Feedback array.

the list comes on at 99 points, and there are a few options to play with. Ive found this way works best. When you consider that in the last 3-4 waves, arc dodging remains a strong contender in the meta its important to have ways to get damage through they can't dodge. The main thing that makes this list work is precise movement. The mechanism going to allow manaroo to move a little more unpredictably which is important. You need to resist the urge to get her in the fight. The best thing you can do is keep her away and make sure she's getting to use her actions every turn. If your running this list and not having success, you are most likely flying poorly or not making use of the overwhelming amount of upgrades you have available.

Its not autowin, thats for sure. But like most lists it all depends on how you fly it. If you arent double tapping with Dengar, then you are not putting out enough offense. Also, that arc is defense as people wont take a shot in fear of the double tap. I think recon spec manaroo + painbot on dengar other than overclocked is more effective. Dengar needs to put out loads of damage, and painbot adds to that, especially against hard to hit aces. I haven't flown dengaroo, but played against him many times recently and painbot version is definitely more troublesome. Plus recon spec manaroo protects against 4lom crew and Wes Janson.

Dengar rolling all hits is not remotely unlikely, as he will have focus token, lone wolf, maybe a TL.

Soontir rolling all blanks is not unlikely because Zuckuss.

Soontir can only get up to 3 results from all blanks.

Soontir is also really not all that common in the high level competitive meta right now because he's vulnerable both to torps and to dengaroo. Snag him at r2 in arc or hit him with a bumpmaster and he's not that likely to avoid hits, and when he gets hit, he's toast. There are too many things near-guaranteeing four hits right now for him to be a comfortable choice.

Basically, Dengaroo is 100 points of list thrown into the single best jousting ship in the game. It has a very high chance of dealing 4 hits, and its enemies have as low as it is posible to get chance of getting evade results, plus it has 3 agility in the key round, and infinite focus pretty much forever.

Chasing down manaroo is harder than it sounds.

Even swarms struggle, because Dengar's pretty likely to kill a TIE per shot, so he kills one, probably Howl, before it shoots, then another when it shoots.

Of course, Slicer swarms are going to be hilarious against Dengaroo...

Watching one video where someone didn't do that well, presumably in the cut at nationals after a day and a half straight gaming, doesn't tell the whole story. Plus, it's strong, but not unbeatable, and as with any list, is vulnerable to turn 0 mistakes.

If you're talking about this:

1) Not the best take on the Dengaroo list it should be 99 points. Like this: https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Scum%20and%20Villainy&d=v4!s!171:98,136,-1,174,180,128:29:12:;173:18,-1,-1,38,118,112:-1:3:&sn=Unnamed%20Squadron

Dengar has to have lone wolf and counter measures to survive.

2) Not flown right. Manaroo should have been running. On the turn the shots are fired, why didn't he barrel roll Dengar to the left and back? Just out of range 3 of the uboats, and then he also would have had better movement options the next turn and wouldn't have hit that asteroid.

Ideally he would have gone straight from out of range into range 1 of those uboats, but even if he had gotten caught in range 2-3, that is when I would have popped countermeasures to survive, which he didn't take.

Yea, I was a skeptic like you. so i went and got a second jumpmaster just to try it out. I am 3-1 with it and it is flat out demoralizing to your opponent. i even considered not running it because it clearly made the game not fun for some. you have to keep flying it to understand the nuances of how it works. I am a believer!

Locally we've determined it's a complete matchup skew

either your list can go through dengar or has to hunt manny to win

So you get things like dengar plowing through THE ENTIRE crackswarm

Or two torp scouts with mux just laughing at him

ARCs with tail gunner and Biggs also make him hilariously trivial. All the focus and rerolls in the world don't matter when you're only 1 ability

If you're talking about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNrsHde4i0w

1) Not the best take on the Dengaroo list it should be 99 points. Like this: https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Scum%20and%20Villainy&d=v4!s!171:98,136,-1,174,180,128:29:12:;173:18,-1,-1,38,118,112:-1:3:&sn=Unnamed%20Squadron

Dengar has to have lone wolf and counter measures to survive.

2) Not flown right. Manaroo should have been running. On the turn the shots are fired, why didn't he barrel roll Dengar to the left and back? Just out of range 3 of the uboats, and then he also would have had better movement options the next turn and wouldn't have hit that asteroid.

Ideally he would have gone straight from out of range into range 1 of those uboats, but even if he had gotten caught in range 2-3, that is when I would have popped countermeasures to survive, which he didn't take.

Yeah, thats the one. The best part is how the commentators have no idea what's going on :-)

Locally we've determined it's a complete matchup skew

either your list can go through dengar or has to hunt manny to win

So you get things like dengar plowing through THE ENTIRE crackswarm

Or two torp scouts with mux just laughing at him

ARCs with tail gunner and Biggs also make him hilariously trivial. All the focus and rerolls in the world don't matter when you're only 1 ability

I dont know if its that simple though, right? that list shows up so much in the top 4-8 often enough that its more than luck of the draw. yes, that CAN be the case. but is it more likely that the list is based on the skill of flying it?

Locally we've determined it's a complete matchup skew

either your list can go through dengar or has to hunt manny to win

So you get things like dengar plowing through THE ENTIRE crackswarm

Or two torp scouts with mux just laughing at him

ARCs with tail gunner and Biggs also make him hilariously trivial. All the focus and rerolls in the world don't matter when you're only 1 ability

I dont know if its that simple though, right? that list shows up so much in the top 4-8 often enough that its more than luck of the draw. yes, that CAN be the case. but is it more likely that the list is based on the skill of flying it?

I believe you are correct, it isn't just luck of the draw on match ups.

It's how it is played. Dengaroo, played correctly, shouldn't be an instant lose for Dengaroo against two uboats and mux. Close to range 1, countermeasure to project if caught outside of range 1. Dengar doesn't care if he fires at ps9 or ps0 so who cares about mux, he's still getting two shots more than likely.

Dengaroo, in my opinion, requires a different play style. Which is one of it's advantages, it can throw your opponent off, especially if they aren't use to it. However, if you play it like other builds, you're going to have a bad time.

Locally we've determined it's a complete matchup skew

either your list can go through dengar or has to hunt manny to win

So you get things like dengar plowing through THE ENTIRE crackswarm

Or two torp scouts with mux just laughing at him

ARCs with tail gunner and Biggs also make him hilariously trivial. All the focus and rerolls in the world don't matter when you're only 1 ability

I dont know if its that simple though, right? that list shows up so much in the top 4-8 often enough that its more than luck of the draw. yes, that CAN be the case. but is it more likely that the list is based on the skill of flying it?

not likely, considering how utterly predictable Dengar even with the barrel-roll and especially with the arc dependency (because the offensive output of the list is just sad when he doesn't get the double tap)

I had thought the clever use of Manaroo would be the deciding factor, but apparently she's not supposed to be anywhere near the fight despite how amazing large base boost blocking + feedback are, so you're only worried about one ship that isn't even nearly as difficult to catch as super Dash

relative to most other lists, there's just not a whole lot Dengaroo does apart from feed mods and throw dice apparently especially the r5-p8 version. I love to count the focus results they roll and can do nothing with because rec spec only modifies two rolls

Last I looked at the Scum and Villainy Vassal season, Dengaroo had a win ratio of near 80%, no matter who flew it, so it definitely has legs.

I'm 3-1 with it, my only loss being another Dengaroo (don't take initiative is what I learned). It's not autowin by any means, you have to fly it correctly to maximize your shots and use the one off upgrades at the correct time.

Since Wes and Palob are emerging as threats to my overclocked R4, I've taken to running both RecSpec and overclocked, to make sure I'm always tokened up. It comes up to 99 points. It also means that Manaroo has 2 focus per turn when she, in my experience, has to finish the stragglers after Dengar is traded for most of the other list.

If you're talking about this:

1) Not the best take on the Dengaroo list it should be 99 points. Like this: https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Scum%20and%20Villainy&d=v4!s!171:98,136,-1,174,180,128:29:12:;173:18,-1,-1,38,118,112:-1:3:&sn=Unnamed%20Squadron

A Dengaroo list that sacrifices points to put in a third ship isn't a competitive Dengaroo list.

The competitive two-ship Dengaroo is a massive beast in a number of forms both due to its attack output from Dengar and its ability to avoid damage through Zuckus, token staking, and other tricks.

Like any list, it can be beaten, but you have to have specific tactics, and even then it is a tough matchup.

If you're talking about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNrsHde4i0w

1) Not the best take on the Dengaroo list it should be 99 points. Like this: https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Scum%20and%20Villainy&d=v4!s!171:98,136,-1,174,180,128:29:12:;173:18,-1,-1,38,118,112:-1:3:&sn=Unnamed%20Squadron

A Dengaroo list that sacrifices points to put in a third ship isn't a competitive Dengaroo list.

The competitive two-ship Dengaroo is a massive beast in a number of forms both due to its attack output from Dengar and its ability to avoid damage through Zuckus, token staking, and other tricks.

Like any list, it can be beaten, but you have to have specific tactics, and even then it is a tough matchup.

Jesper plays the red Jumps, the three ships are scout x2 + Zuckuss

Its not autowin, thats for sure. But like most lists it all depends on how you fly it. If you arent double tapping with Dengar, then you are not putting out enough offense. Also, that arc is defense as people wont take a shot in fear of the double tap. I think recon spec manaroo + painbot on dengar other than overclocked is more effective. Dengar needs to put out loads of damage, and painbot adds to that, especially against hard to hit aces. I haven't flown dengaroo, but played against him many times recently and painbot version is definitely more troublesome. Plus recon spec manaroo protects against 4lom crew and Wes Janson.

Which droid is the "pintbot"?

Its not autowin, thats for sure. But like most lists it all depends on how you fly it. If you arent double tapping with Dengar, then you are not putting out enough offense. Also, that arc is defense as people wont take a shot in fear of the double tap. I think recon spec manaroo + painbot on dengar other than overclocked is more effective. Dengar needs to put out loads of damage, and painbot adds to that, especially against hard to hit aces. I haven't flown dengaroo, but played against him many times recently and painbot version is definitely more troublesome. Plus recon spec manaroo protects against 4lom crew and Wes Janson.

Which droid is the "pintbot"?

The pain bot is R5-P8. It comes in the punishing one expansion pack.

"Once per round, after defending, you may roll 1 attack die. On a hit result, the attacker suffers 1 damage. On a crit result, you and the attacker each suffer 1 damage."

Its not autowin, thats for sure. But like most lists it all depends on how you fly it. If you arent double tapping with Dengar, then you are not putting out enough offense. Also, that arc is defense as people wont take a shot in fear of the double tap. I think recon spec manaroo + painbot on dengar other than overclocked is more effective. Dengar needs to put out loads of damage, and painbot adds to that, especially against hard to hit aces. I haven't flown dengaroo, but played against him many times recently and painbot version is definitely more troublesome. Plus recon spec manaroo protects against 4lom crew and Wes Janson.

Which droid is the "pintbot"?

The pain bot is R5-P8. It comes in the punishing one expansion pack.

"Once per round, after defending, you may roll 1 attack die. On a hit result, the attacker suffers 1 damage. On a crit result, you and the attacker each suffer 1 damage."

Thanks! First time I've heard it referred to as the "paintbot".

I like "Pistol Pete" (pistol-P8).

Regarding Dengaroo vs. Palp Aces: I run Dengar with painbot and Manaroo with RecSpec and I'd just ignore Soontir and focus on the other ace and shuttle, unless I get a good shot on him (in arc or range 1).

A Soontir shooting Dengar at range 2 keeping tokens for defense will score 1-2 hits (1.5 average) while Dengar's 2 greens with LW yeld about 1 evade without Focus, 1.5 with. If Soontir is willing to risk doing 1 damage to Dengar in return for triggering Painbot, that's a trade I'll gladly take.

Its not autowin, thats for sure. But like most lists it all depends on how you fly it. If you arent double tapping with Dengar, then you are not putting out enough offense. Also, that arc is defense as people wont take a shot in fear of the double tap. I think recon spec manaroo + painbot on dengar other than overclocked is more effective. Dengar needs to put out loads of damage, and painbot adds to that, especially against hard to hit aces. I haven't flown dengaroo, but played against him many times recently and painbot version is definitely more troublesome. Plus recon spec manaroo protects against 4lom crew and Wes Janson.

Which droid is the "pintbot"?

The pain bot is R5-P8. It comes in the punishing one expansion pack.

"Once per round, after defending, you may roll 1 attack die. On a hit result, the attacker suffers 1 damage. On a crit result, you and the attacker each suffer 1 damage."

Thanks! First time I've heard it referred to as the "paintbot".

pain. Pain bot. Not paint, or pint, but pain. Because it is painful to shoot against.

Its not autowin, thats for sure. But like most lists it all depends on how you fly it. If you arent double tapping with Dengar, then you are not putting out enough offense. Also, that arc is defense as people wont take a shot in fear of the double tap. I think recon spec manaroo + painbot on dengar other than overclocked is more effective. Dengar needs to put out loads of damage, and painbot adds to that, especially against hard to hit aces. I haven't flown dengaroo, but played against him many times recently and painbot version is definitely more troublesome. Plus recon spec manaroo protects against 4lom crew and Wes Janson.

Which droid is the "pintbot"?

The pain bot is R5-P8. It comes in the punishing one expansion pack.

"Once per round, after defending, you may roll 1 attack die. On a hit result, the attacker suffers 1 damage. On a crit result, you and the attacker each suffer 1 damage."

Thanks! First time I've heard it referred to as the "paintbot".

pain. Pain bot. Not paint, or pint, but pain. Because it is painful to shoot against.

I see the optometrist next month. Too old to improve my typing skills. Thanks anyway for clearing that up regardless if it's pain, paint pint.

After play testing it really comes down to 1. piloting (are you triggering his natural ability, blocking to reduce the number of ships that shoot at you) 2. Using your upgrades properly (did you pop counter measure too soon? glitter? are you using lone wolf triggering r5-p8 on the right ship? passing tokens at the start of combat?) 3. KEEPING MANNY OUT OF THE FIGHT. I have learned that it not only keeps your dengar tanky, but in the late game she steam rolls through whatever hurt aces are left with feedback array.

I say all this to say, its not an easy list to fly and mistakes will get this list obliterated, BUT when its ran well it is the most harsh demoralizing list i have seen in x wing so far. that doesnt mean the best.....