I'm the kind of guy that is behind the curve on...well... everything.

With the new newness comming, this is probably a bad time to decide to learn and practice imp aces.

But...that's what I do.

I don't think the list I want to work with is anything special.

Fel... inquisitor...jax (VI and hull)

I am also curious to try fel and whisper together but everyone sais its a bad idea because they are at odds with initiative needs.

But.. isn't it feasible that it can work because then you just build to 100 and have both sides of the initiative coin covered?

I'm the kind of guy that is behind the curve on...well... everything.

With the new newness comming, this is probably a bad time to decide to learn and practice imp aces.

But...that's what I do.

I don't think the list I want to work with is anything special.

Fel... inquisitor...jax (VI and hull)

I am also curious to try fel and whisper together but everyone sais its a bad idea because they are at odds with initiative needs.

But.. isn't it feasible that it can work because then you just build to 100 and have both sides of the initiative coin covered?

I used to mix Whisper, Soontir and turr a fear years ago. The fun part is that if the enemy is in the PS9 field, he will have to grudgingly accept that taking or leaving the initiative will put him at odds with one pilot or another.

Wave 9's not out yet, so now probably is the time

then again, imp "Aces" is a very broad category (unless you're talking about the expansion pack, but the "aces" there is a hotly debated term) and at least Whisper and Vader don't give a crap about BMSTs unless you get Ventress or something else inflicting stress in the first place

and hey, with VI Vader at PS 11, you don't give two ***** about which side of the initiative Whisper needs

Imperial aces are always pretty decent. If you're looking for a 3 aces list I'd probably go:

Inquisitor ptl v1 thrusters (31)

Soontir ptl royal guard thrusters stealth (35)

Jax ptl royal guard thrusters stealth (34)

100 points

The big issue I have with whisper and fel together other than they don't like the same side of initiative is that they're both pretty expensive and you can't fit much else with them. If you're set on them together then it's probably:

Soontir ptl royal guard thrusters stealth (35)

Whisper vi acd fcs (39)

Omega leader juke comms relay (26)

As you can see in order to fit a third pocket ace you need a pretty slimmed down whisper. That's not awful but the phantom usually likes carrying a crew along for the ride.

Interesting, if I go with soontir,whisper...I'm thinking just VI,acd and .... palpmobile?

(Also changing soontir to targeting computer)

Blah....probably just too much square peg,round hole going on.

Or rather...10 pounds in a 5 pound bag.

Wave 9's not out yet, so now probably is the time

then again, imp "Aces" is a very broad category (unless you're talking about the expansion pack, but the "aces" there is a hotly debated term) and at least Whisper and Vader don't give a crap about BMSTs unless you get Ventress or something else inflicting stress in the first place

and hey, with VI Vader at PS 11, you don't give two ***** about which side of the initiative Whisper needs

Noob question here whats BMST ?

Wave 9's not out yet, so now probably is the time

then again, imp "Aces" is a very broad category (unless you're talking about the expansion pack, but the "aces" there is a hotly debated term) and at least Whisper and Vader don't give a crap about BMSTs unless you get Ventress or something else inflicting stress in the first place

and hey, with VI Vader at PS 11, you don't give two ***** about which side of the initiative Whisper needs

Noob question here whats BMST ?

Black Market Slicer Tool, an illicit upgrade that will be coming in with wave 9.

Hey, guess what

Imperial Aces aren't going anywhere.

PTL or not they are still crazy good, and anti ace tech released in past waves has not changed that.

Plus if your playing in your local meta, it's probably not that restrictive.

So fly what you want, and it just so happens that what you want to fly is like, the coolest thing you could.

I really don't see BMST changing anything regarding PTL aces like Soontir or Inquisitor.

First, it requires the ship to be stressed. Good ace pilots put themselves in positions where they don't depend on PTL.

Second, it requires an action. Depending on your build this can hurt your offensive/defense output. Have you rolled unmodified dice before? They suck.

Third, BMST will only be good en masse. A 50/50 chance will on average kill Soontir in 6 BMST actions, 8 for Inquisitor. Sure you can fly a Z swarm with them but your Palp Ace player will be popping 1-2 Zs per turn so its a race against a clock that doesn't favor the swarm pilot.

Ventress does sound a little hard to deal with. It will be tough, but not impossible. Remember Palp Aces have been dealing with large bases with anti ace tech in the last few months (Ghost with ABT, Scum Big with Feedback) and that hasn't stopped them one bit.

I really don't see BMST changing anything regarding PTL aces like Soontir or Inquisitor.

First, it requires the ship to be stressed. Good ace pilots put themselves in positions where they don't depend on PTL.

Second, it requires an action. Depending on your build this can hurt your offensive/defense output. Have you rolled unmodified dice before? They suck.

Third, BMST will only be good en masse. A 50/50 chance will on average kill Soontir in 6 BMST actions, 8 for Inquisitor. Sure you can fly a Z swarm with them but your Palp Ace player will be popping 1-2 Zs per turn so its a race against a clock that doesn't favor the swarm pilot.

Ventress does sound a little hard to deal with. It will be tough, but not impossible. Remember Palp Aces have been dealing with large bases with anti ace tech in the last few months (Ghost with ABT, Scum Big with Feedback) and that hasn't stopped them one bit.

Minor correction, sir, about Inquisitor.

BMST deals a facedown damage card, meaning it goes through shields. Using your logic, that's 4 actions to kill him. I think it's slightly better than it's given credit for. Remember, this thing is 1 point and fits on all Scum Z-95s. For 13 points, you get the perfect carrier:

Binyare Pirate (12)

- BMST (1)

Moves first, vanilla dial, almost always get an action and range 1-2 is not hard to manage.

I'm not saying you should run 7 of these things ('cause you can fit 7 in 100 points), but running 2 of them in a high-stress meta (RE: Palp/Imperial Aces) sounds like a solid plan to me.

another minor correction

"depending" on PTL is sometimes something as simple as getting full modifiers with a ship (esp the inquisitor), and no amount of "being good" will compensate for dice ******* you over so mitigating the risks of BMST by not ptling full mods is still quite a loss

not to mention the 50/50 nature of BMSTs is unreliable, but it's also dice which means you will have games of 3 coin flips in a row hitting your ptl norra through shields (you better believe it)

and you'll still take those BMST triggers because freaking Rau ain't dying to anything less than full mods anytime soon

as for the ACTION requirement, it's a double-sided issue (kinda like the coinflip BMSTs mirrors in probability)

on one hand, ACTIONs are valuable

on the other hand, a z-95 probably isn't going to accomplish **** actions or not, so **** it right?

BMST isn't going to kill the viability of Aces. What it will do is allow some squads to have a fighting chance against them that currently need to depend on mistakes being made by the ace player to win. The aces won't be able to play as conservatively as they are used to being able to play because given enough time the BMSTs will eventually be able to whittle them down.

I really don't see BMST changing anything regarding PTL aces like Soontir or Inquisitor.

First, it requires the ship to be stressed. Good ace pilots put themselves in positions where they don't depend on PTL.

Second, it requires an action. Depending on your build this can hurt your offensive/defense output. Have you rolled unmodified dice before? They suck.

Third, BMST will only be good en masse. A 50/50 chance will on average kill Soontir in 6 BMST actions, 8 for Inquisitor. Sure you can fly a Z swarm with them but your Palp Ace player will be popping 1-2 Zs per turn so its a race against a clock that doesn't favor the swarm pilot.

Ventress does sound a little hard to deal with. It will be tough, but not impossible. Remember Palp Aces have been dealing with large bases with anti ace tech in the last few months (Ghost with ABT, Scum Big with Feedback) and that hasn't stopped them one bit.

Minor correction, sir, about Inquisitor.

BMST deals a facedown damage card, meaning it goes through shields. Using your logic, that's 4 actions to kill him. I think it's slightly better than it's given credit for. Remember, this thing is 1 point and fits on all Scum Z-95s. For 13 points, you get the perfect carrier:

Binyare Pirate (12)

- BMST (1)

Moves first, vanilla dial, almost always get an action and range 1-2 is not hard to manage.

I'm not saying you should run 7 of these things ('cause you can fit 7 in 100 points), but running 2 of them in a high-stress meta (RE: Palp/Imperial Aces) sounds like a solid plan to me.

My mistake, forgot it's facedown damage. Yes, 2 hull ships are a bit more susceptible.

But see just as you described bringing 7 of them won't do much for you, and bringing 2 will get one killed before it gets to use them.

Also when they miss you have a tokenless Z95 that will die if it gets breathed on.

Yes this may draw enough aggro to let the rest of your list do work, but not anything an experienced Palp Ace player hasn't seen before.

This will have the same effect that the Phantom, half point big base rule, and R4 agromech erratas did, shake off the mid tier players to other builds. You'll get less Palp Aces players overall but the stronger pilots will still keep winning.

BMST isn't going to kill the viability of Aces. What it will do is allow some squads to have a fighting chance against them that currently need to depend on mistakes being made by the ace player to win. The aces won't be able to play as conservatively as they are used to being able to play because given enough time the BMSTs will eventually be able to whittle them down.

they also make Z-95s actually worth maybe taking

BMST isn't going to kill the viability of Aces. What it will do is allow some squads to have a fighting chance against them that currently need to depend on mistakes being made by the ace player to win. The aces won't be able to play as conservatively as they are used to being able to play because given enough time the BMSTs will eventually be able to whittle them down.

they also make Z-95s actually worth maybe taking

Said someone who's never heard of Feedback Array

But really... Love me some Feedback Array.

I'm the kind of guy that is behind the curve on...well... everything.

With the new newness comming, this is probably a bad time to decide to learn and practice imp aces.

But...that's what I do.

I don't think the list I want to work with is anything special.

Fel... inquisitor...jax (VI and hull)

I am also curious to try fel and whisper together but everyone sais its a bad idea because they are at odds with initiative needs.

But.. isn't it feasible that it can work because then you just build to 100 and have both sides of the initiative coin covered?

I used to mix Whisper, Soontir and turr a fear years ago. The fun part is that if the enemy is in the PS9 field, he will have to grudgingly accept that taking or leaving the initiative will put him at odds with one pilot or another.

This. 1000 times over. It will require that you play them both very well, in both scenarios. You have to be pretty good using whisper as an arc dodger, and you have to be pretty good moving Fel before other PS9+ aces move. Otherwise I recommend it. They're both a little slim to put Palp in there, but you can more fully kit them out (proper) if you use Omega Leader as a 3rd ace instead of those two in a palp aces list. Either way its to your benefit to learn how to fly each of them in both regards.

Edit: Made top 8 in a regional a couple years ago using a fully kitted out Whisper/Fel and 2x Academy pilots for blockers. It was my "bowling list". Academies set 'em up, Aces knocked 'em down

this seems interesting as a possibility,.having a bomber shutle throwing around target locks and stressing things.

whisper, fel, scimitar..officer,tactician, tie mk 2

https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Galactic%20Empire&d=v4!s!79:27,36,21:-1:9:;28:18:5:1:M.15;49:-1,-1,-1,-1,-1:35:17:u.61,u.183&sn=100-fel%2Cwhiser%2Csupport

I really don't see BMST changing anything regarding PTL aces like Soontir or Inquisitor.

First, it requires the ship to be stressed. Good ace pilots put themselves in positions where they don't depend on PTL.

Second, it requires an action. Depending on your build this can hurt your offensive/defense output. Have you rolled unmodified dice before? They suck.

Third, BMST will only be good en masse. A 50/50 chance will on average kill Soontir in 6 BMST actions, 8 for Inquisitor. Sure you can fly a Z swarm with them but your Palp Ace player will be popping 1-2 Zs per turn so its a race against a clock that doesn't favor the swarm pilot.

Ventress does sound a little hard to deal with. It will be tough, but not impossible. Remember Palp Aces have been dealing with large bases with anti ace tech in the last few months (Ghost with ABT, Scum Big with Feedback) and that hasn't stopped them one bit.

Minor correction, sir, about Inquisitor.

BMST deals a facedown damage card, meaning it goes through shields. Using your logic, that's 4 actions to kill him. I think it's slightly better than it's given credit for. Remember, this thing is 1 point and fits on all Scum Z-95s. For 13 points, you get the perfect carrier:

Binyare Pirate (12)

- BMST (1)

Moves first, vanilla dial, almost always get an action and range 1-2 is not hard to manage.

I'm not saying you should run 7 of these things ('cause you can fit 7 in 100 points), but running 2 of them in a high-stress meta (RE: Palp/Imperial Aces) sounds like a solid plan to me.

My mistake, forgot it's facedown damage. Yes, 2 hull ships are a bit more susceptible.

But see just as you described bringing 7 of them won't do much for you, and bringing 2 will get one killed before it gets to use them.

Also when they miss you have a tokenless Z95 that will die if it gets breathed on.

Yes this may draw enough aggro to let the rest of your list do work, but not anything an experienced Palp Ace player hasn't seen before.

This will have the same effect that the Phantom, half point big base rule, and R4 agromech erratas did, shake off the mid tier players to other builds. You'll get less Palp Aces players overall but the stronger pilots will still keep winning.

I think will time will tell. I'm sure that Palp Aces isn't going anyhere, nor are PtL Aces. They will just have to be more dodgey around those ships with BMST.

But in regard to your comment about Z-95s never getting to use the BMST, you're totes wrong. BMST is an action. This takes place way before firing (for 99% of ships) and will go off before the Z-95 is destroyed. Not even Soontir Fel can kill something before it performs an action during the round.

(Depsite what PGS may say...)

Good thing Imps also have aces that do well without PTL.

actually with everything being new now is the best time ever to practice Aces. Kind of like in Hearthstone when the best time to get Legendary is when a new set is released because the meta is in flux for a short time.

But in regard to your comment about Z-95s never getting to use the BMST, you're totes wrong. BMST is an action. This takes place way before firing (for 99% of ships) and will go off before the Z-95 is destroyed. Not even Soontir Fel can kill something before it performs an action during the round.

(Depsite what PGS may say...)

The power of high PS Aces is choosing the terms of the first engagement. The Z95 player won't be able to get into R1-2 on the first engagement if the Palp Ace player can help it, but Soontir can. If all 3 guns (Palp/Inq/Soontir) are in the fight first round, you can eliminate at least 1 Z if not 2. Depending on how many BMST you bring, that'll be my first goal. Obviously Scum has more tricks up their sleeves, the focus then would be to set it up as a trap (block, come into range of a party bus, etc) so it'll come down to how the rest of the build is.

Don't think just because you have some Zs with BMST that you'll just auto win against Palp Aces.

Its not easy to avoid bmst dice when you activate BEFORE soonts had a chance to do anything

But you are correct in that its not autowin

Takes a few turns to hack soonts to death due to stress removal on successful rolls

But in regard to your comment about Z-95s never getting to use the BMST, you're totes wrong. BMST is an action. This takes place way before firing (for 99% of ships) and will go off before the Z-95 is destroyed. Not even Soontir Fel can kill something before it performs an action during the round.

(Depsite what PGS may say...)

The power of high PS Aces is choosing the terms of the first engagement. The Z95 player won't be able to get into R1-2 on the first engagement if the Palp Ace player can help it, but Soontir can. If all 3 guns (Palp/Inq/Soontir) are in the fight first round, you can eliminate at least 1 Z if not 2. Depending on how many BMST you bring, that'll be my first goal. Obviously Scum has more tricks up their sleeves, the focus then would be to set it up as a trap (block, come into range of a party bus, etc) so it'll come down to how the rest of the build is.

Don't think just because you have some Zs with BMST that you'll just auto win against Palp Aces.

You've never played a list or against a list with blockers? It's not fool-proof, but it works.

Also, assuming two Z-95 with BMST, in order for the Aces to "control the first engagement" they will need to NOT PtL right before the Z-95s come into range (which for two ships, range 1-2 is ENORMOUS). The Aces can do this but you know what that means, right? No turled Fel, no target-locked/evaded and focused Inquisitor, etc. etc.

There's another 78 points of list that the Z-95s are setting up to hit the Aces when they're "protecting" themselves from BMST but not turtling up/repositioning.

Again, I don't think it's going to rattle the world, but you're naive if you think Aces will "auto-win" against ships using this strategy...

By the way, no one claimed BMST is auto-win. Ever.

Its not easy to avoid bmst dice when you activate BEFORE soonts had a chance to do anything

But you are correct in that its not autowin

Takes a few turns to hack soonts to death due to stress removal on successful rolls

I think people are forgetting that these ships won't be able to use BMST on the first engagement... usually the Aces aren't stressed yet and can eliminate you before you get to use them the next turn...

Like I keep saying, unless you're flying a set up where the BMST ships are being escorted by something even more dangerous (aka Party Bus, BumpMaster, etc) those precious 13, 26, 39 points you spent on some PS1 Z BMST carriers will be off the board before they get to try slicing the aces to death.

And again, building your list to beat Palp Aces will leave you exposed to other lists (a Crackswarm will laugh hilariously at your PS1 Zs), so you can't put all your eggs in one basket.