I am trying to do different squad lists but during that process I am finding some cards that has now a similar effect used by another card, but with totally different cost. This struck me most when I have seen Zuckuss crew on Dengaroo build. I reminded myself that there was this Elusiveness card years ago... Oh, an EPT. More expensive (2 points), less effective (as it can take only one red die a time) and, the queen: you can use it only if you have no stress tokens. I am really asking myself, maybe we should re-print some of the old cards to get them errated. I understand that the stress mechanism is different to what it used to be, but due to that some upgrades suffers terribly. This could be much more useful if there is no additional condition of having no stress, and could be much more playable and fun to have cards that are actually useful.

Not only in the tournament games, but also home wise. If one plays casually (using Elusiveness) with just old pieces against something with newer miniatures (i.e. including Zuckuss crew) will have a feeling that his stuff is much less efficient than the new models and that the game sucks... I don't want that to happen ever!

Do you see that problem as well? What other cards seems weirdly priced in terms of squad points?

Some cards are just outdated, as they were not really good from the beginning, and better stuff came, e.g.:

Munitions Failsafe - finally obsolete due to Gudiance Chips

Blaster Turret - Dorsal turret in most cases better (cheaper, no focus required)

Blaster Turret is terrible with Dorsal on the field. Want to talk about hard counters? A pilot in the game literally has an ability to stop it from shooting. For a HWK with blaster turret, Carnor is OP. (They don't generally like Palob or Wes either.)

I'd pay 2 points for blaster turret as is or 3 if it required a focus token to activate but not spend.

Munitions Failsafe - finally obsolete due to Gudiance Chips

I am curious if a combo of Failsafe, Hot Shot and an AHM or PRocket might be good on a K-Fighter.

( I initially considered it for a Z, but they're probably too fragile )

Some cards are just outdated

You are right, but I have a feeling sometimes that there is just a small bit that could make the game more interesting. I am not saying that this would be a meta changing mechanism like the Elusiveness, but if there was no condition for the stress token, than it could have been much more interesting and quite good in some builds (Keyan with this and Sensor Jammer could effectively mess up with 2 of enemies dice each attack and still get his modification on an attack).

In other cases I feel like willing to ask the developers to come here and explain themselves. What the hell is about this range restriction for systems oficer? Range 1? Ow, c'mon that is unusable...

Munitions Failsafe is something that we should just forget about.

Some cards are just outdated

Munitions Failsafe is something that we should just forget about.

Imagine, for example, if Ion Torps had their ion splash effect even if they missed. This conbo on a Ghost would be very competitive, especially if you threw an Autoblaster turret on there to go with it.

Munitions Failsafe is something that we should just forget about.

I haven't seen the actual card but the way people describe it, seismic torpedoes doesn't hit anything it just works. So wouldn't MF give you infinite of these until you run out of obstacles? I'm not forgetting about this thing just yet.

Munitions Failsafe is something that we should just forget about.

I haven't seen the actual card but the way people describe it, seismic torpedoes doesn't hit anything it just works. So wouldn't MF give you infinite of these until you run out of obstacles? I'm not forgetting about this thing just yet.

Seismic torpedo is not a secondary weapon, so MF does not work with it.

In addition, universal defensive upgrades should always be more expensive because they delay the end game state.

Otherwise you get autoincludes like autothrusters.

FFG does not always

Munitions Failsafe is something that we should just forget about.

I haven't seen the actual card but the way people describe it, seismic torpedoes doesn't hit anything it just works. So wouldn't MF give you infinite of these until you run out of obstacles? I'm not forgetting about this thing just yet.

Seismic torpedo is not a secondary weapon, so MF does not work with it.

Blaster Turret used to be awesome on Kavil with Agromech, but since the FAQ declared the focus token is spent before the attack it's been nerfed into total uselessness again.

Elusiveness still might have a place in some builds that aren't scum. Because, you know, Zuckuss is scum only.

Anyway...

Do you see that problem as well? What other cards seems weirdly priced in terms of squad points?

There are tons of badly priced upgrade cards out there. Elusiveness was a bad card from the beginnig, it has nothing to do with old stuff vs new stuff.

Every release has useless cards, it takes player skill and experience to find good upgrades and build a strong list.

Zuckuss is not an overpowered card. Dengaroo is a bad example, it is a nealy broken list, but it is not because of Zuckuss, but the collection of synergies (Dengar's double tap + Manaroo passing focus + OCR4 multiplying focus + Zuckuss + JM5k excellent dial + PWT). Try it with any other pilot then Dengar, and you will not be in the same ballpark.

What is it then? It says it's a torpedo and goes in that slot? Not being bitchy just curious what it is.

It is not the torpedo icon that matters. Secondary weapons have the "Attack:" header, seismic torpedo has "Action:".

FFG does not always

Munitions Failsafe is something that we should just forget about.

I haven't seen the actual card but the way people describe it, seismic torpedoes doesn't hit anything it just works. So wouldn't MF give you infinite of these until you run out of obstacles? I'm not forgetting about this thing just yet.

Seismic torpedo is not a secondary weapon, so MF does not work with it.

What is it then? It says it's a torpedo and goes in that slot? Not being bitchy just curious what it is.

Edit for the ninja

FFG does not always

Munitions Failsafe is something that we should just forget about.

I haven't seen the actual card but the way people describe it, seismic torpedoes doesn't hit anything it just works. So wouldn't MF give you infinite of these until you run out of obstacles? I'm not forgetting about this thing just yet.

Seismic torpedo is not a secondary weapon, so MF does not work with it.

What is it then? It says it's a torpedo and goes in that slot? Not being bitchy just curious what it is.

Secondary Weapons are defined specifically as any upgrade with the Attack: header. Seismic Torps are an Action: header upgrade, and thus don't meet the definition. The slot has nothing to do with it; for example, Hot Shot Blaster is a Secondary Weapon despite being an Illicit slot upgrade because it has the Attack: header.

Meh I hate single use action cards outside crackshot, wish they would leave those as ept's exclusively. Thanks for the response guys.

Some cards were designed too conservatively originally.

Some cards boost a specific faction only.

This pretty much covers it. Easier to increment power up than to have to start banning stuff.

Stuff that doesn't see play is basically not in the game and honestly that's ok, particularly when it comes to things like cards. I mean, its just a card. I care if something doesn't see play on something of a sliding scale. For X-Wing, my primary concern is if a ship isn't viable, because then there's a physical toy someone can't play with. After that, I really only care if a card represents a character people really love. For example, I honestly couldn't care less whether there's a valid reason to field say.... Tempest squadron, but someone like Darth Vader or Wedge needs a little more attention when they don't see play.

Comparing cards with similar effects has many different factors to consider beyond just looking at the cost of those upgrades:

1. "How powerful is this effect going to be?" This is a big one when you first see something and there is a fear it could be overpowered thus it is priced higher but when it is discovered that it could cost less something else is released at the lower price.

2. Slots. Some slots are just more useful

3. Additions. This included penalties (stress), restrictions, and added benefits that alter the cost

4. Availability. Something that is faction/ship specific is likely to be priced less than something that is universally useful.

Explanation: somewhere at some point, someone done goofed

Some cards are just outdated, as they were not really good from the beginning, and better stuff came, e.g.:

Munitions Failsafe - finally obsolete due to Gudiance Chips

Blaster Turret - Dorsal turret in most cases better (cheaper, no focus required)

Munitions Failsafe will always have a home on a ship with Flechette Torpedoes. Just keep spitting out your 3-dice unmodified attacks and stack stress on any ship with 4 hull or less.

Some cards are just outdated, as they were not really good from the beginning, and better stuff came, e.g.:

Munitions Failsafe - finally obsolete due to Gudiance Chips

Blaster Turret - Dorsal turret in most cases better (cheaper, no focus required)

Some cards were designed too conservatively originally.

Some cards boost a specific faction only.

This pretty much covers it. Easier to increment power up than to have to start banning stuff.

Just curious, I was told that this doesn't count as 'Power Creep' because you have to buy new ships with upgrades that make old ships more competitive.

But doesn't that, in effect, work the same as 'Power Creep'?

If so isn't it 'Power Creep'?

If it works the same, causes you to buy more to function the same, then what would it be called?

Lt. Lorrir. Echo can do her crazy banked decloak maneuver for nothing, but Lt. Lorrir has to take a stress?! I was just about to start playing him again, but with the threat of Black Market Slicer tools, no way. I REALLY wish they would reprint his card without the stress cost (but I know they never will). Time to find a new favorite pilot...

I honestly don't mind when FFG makes a mistake, and prints a new card with a similar effect that doesn't repeat that mistake.

For instance: Marksmanship is a terrible card. Calculation is very similar, but much less expensive.

Maybe, FFG could errata Munitions Failsafe? -just to keep from being tossed in the trash.

This card should read:

"When attacking with a secondary weapon that instructs you to discard it to perform the attack, do not discard it unless the attack hits.

You may equip an additional Modification."

1 Point