Wow. A complete bore fest of mainly jumpmasters and imp aces. Long live Epic/HotAC.

As much as I dislike trip-jumps (I'm less bothered by Imp Aces, although they are clearly a very good list), I think it's a little unfair to criticise people bringing the most powerful lists available to the Nationals.

Disc. I flew Eide list, played 2 palp aces and one jumps/party bus. Went 4-2, lost to bus and one of the aces.

No problem with players wanting to win and taking winning combos of ships. That's what these tournaments are about. I am now throughly spoiled by casual play where you see all sorts of weird and wonderful combos and scenarios that the 100pt death match seems so limiting and these lists reminded me of it.

Wow. A complete bore fest of mainly jumpmasters and imp aces. Long live Epic/HotAC.

As much as I dislike trip-jumps (I'm less bothered by Imp Aces, although they are clearly a very good list), I think it's a little unfair to criticise people bringing the most powerful lists available to the Nationals.

Disc. I flew Eide list, played 2 palp aces and one jumps/party bus. Went 4-2, lost to bus and one of the aces.

No problem with players wanting to win and taking winning combos of ships. That's what these tournaments are about. I am now throughly spoiled by casual play where you see all sorts of weird and wonderful combos and scenarios that the 100pt death match seems so limiting and these lists reminded me of it.

Yup. Definitely a "don't blame the players, blame the game" situation unfortunately. It's really a shame, because honestly if the Contracted Scout didn't have an EPT for some reason, I'd pretty happily say the game is in the best shape its ever been.

There is certainly an element of imagination lacking though. The mindlink list I took had the capabilities to win every single game, had I played a little better. There are other combos and lists out there, and it's a shame that many people would rather copy something than take a chance outside the box. It's that taking a chance thing that scares people I think, especially at nationals level

It's a time thing as well. Learning to play a list takes time, developing from scratch takes time, if you've only got limited opportunities to play and prepare taking a stock list shortcuts a massive amount of work.

Wow. A complete bore fest of mainly jumpmasters and imp aces. Long live Epic/HotAC.

As much as I dislike trip-jumps (I'm less bothered by Imp Aces, although they are clearly a very good list), I think it's a little unfair to criticise people bringing the most powerful lists available to the Nationals.

Disc. I flew Eide list, played 2 palp aces and one jumps/party bus. Went 4-2, lost to bus and one of the aces.

No problem with players wanting to win and taking winning combos of ships. That's what these tournaments are about. I am now throughly spoiled by casual play where you see all sorts of weird and wonderful combos and scenarios that the 100pt death match seems so limiting and these lists reminded me of it.

Yup. Definitely a "don't blame the players, blame the game" situation unfortunately. It's really a shame, because honestly if the Contracted Scout didn't have an EPT for some reason, I'd pretty happily say the game is in the best shape its ever been.

I think dropping the EPT and raising the price of the named pilots may do the trick. When 12 of 14 of a factions lists in the top 32 contain a specific ship, I think it is pretty clear it is a bit undercosted. Ya, Scum doesn't have many other great options, but 12 lists in a top 32 all having the same ship, no factions even considered, is pretty jarring as well, especially when most of those contain 2 or more of said ship.

Thanks for sharing!

I see defenders so it can't all be bad.

The Defenders were the surprise of the weekend for me, those things are a big pain to play against, there were a good number over the whole tournament! Mike Dennis' Triple X7 list is a big favourite of mine.

This is the exact triple x7 list ive been flying since vets was spoiled and I absolutely love it. Ive been debating if I wanna swap the delta for a palpshuttle, but i love the delta as a blocker (and another good fighter on its own. Its solod manaroo before)

Wow. A complete bore fest of mainly jumpmasters and imp aces. Long live Epic/HotAC.

As much as I dislike trip-jumps (I'm less bothered by Imp Aces, although they are clearly a very good list), I think it's a little unfair to criticise people bringing the most powerful lists available to the Nationals.

Disc. I flew Eide list, played 2 palp aces and one jumps/party bus. Went 4-2, lost to bus and one of the aces.

No problem with players wanting to win and taking winning combos of ships. That's what these tournaments are about. I am now throughly spoiled by casual play where you see all sorts of weird and wonderful combos and scenarios that the 100pt death match seems so limiting and these lists reminded me of it.

Yup. Definitely a "don't blame the players, blame the game" situation unfortunately. It's really a shame, because honestly if the Contracted Scout didn't have an EPT for some reason, I'd pretty happily say the game is in the best shape its ever been.

I think dropping the EPT and raising the price of the named pilots may do the trick. When 12 of 14 of a factions lists in the top 32 contain a specific ship, I think it is pretty clear it is a bit undercosted. Ya, Scum doesn't have kany other great options, but 12 lists in a top 32 all having the same ship, no factions even considered, is pretty jarring as well, especially when most of those contain 2 or more of said ship.

It really is mostly the lack of good scum ships. Before wave 8 the only thing scum saw in the cuts of big tournaments regularly was brobots. Is it really a surprise that brobots and jumpmasters are the things that show yo consustently now?

Hopefully wave 9 will give us some good new competitve options and we'll get an aces to make more of our small ships better

Is anyone else not convinced that large ships need some toning down? I've been saying that. Look at these comments from multiple other posters. Look at them I swear.

Interestingly, if we had some counter cards for large ships you could then create an anti ace rebel list (easy!) and put a few points of anti large ship in there that would allow you to have a game vs both meta lists.

Also note that the rebel lists are on the back of really strong large ships once again. Dash ghost falcon. Yuck

Wow. A complete bore fest of mainly jumpmasters and imp aces. Long live Epic/HotAC.

And a final with that list:

"Whisper" (32)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Fire-Control System (2)

Agent Kallus (2)

Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Captain Oicunn (42)

Predator (3)

Gunner (5)

Rebel Captive (3)

Engine Upgrade (4)

Total: 98

What is also extremely noticeable is that not a single Biggs shows up, it almost as no one did bring Wes and Biggs to stop imperial aces and scouts to place highly.

It would appear that UK is significantly behind the meta. I found 0 copies of guidance chips on ships without munitions.

Is anyone else not convinced that large ships need some toning down? I've been saying that. Look at these comments from multiple other posters. Look at them I swear.

Interestingly, if we had some counter cards for large ships you could then create an anti ace rebel list (easy!) and put a few points of anti large ship in there that would allow you to have a game vs both meta lists.

Also note that the rebel lists are on the back of really strong large ships once again. Dash ghost falcon. Yuck

But being large isn't the cause. The ships aren't suddenly inherently better because they're large. They're good because they are better costed compared to other ships. And because of that, you shouldn't look to penalize ships for being large because there are examples (even if few) of large base ships which do struggle. The Firesprays, ORS, and WSF all struggle mightily, and without Palp, the Lambda seemed very fair at its price as well.

FFG seems to still be having a rough time costing large base ships correctly. We will see if they have finally gotten it down with the Shadowcaster and Upsilon Shuttle.

I will agree though that there are some upgrades which are much better on a large base ship though that should probably be costed differently according to ship size. Engine could probably cost 5 or 6 and still be used on large bases, and that cost could/should be reduced to 2 or 3 for small base. Guidance Chips and LRS I feel should cost at least a point for large base ships, just by virtue of having a larger arc and easier capability of getting off their payload.

There has to be a joke here about large bases and easy payloads.

They crushed the Rebel Scum.

HAHAHAH

Looks like Scum and Rebels have officially switched places in the meta. Wasn't too long ago that Rebels was the only faction at worlds finals.

Also, didn't they already try to nerf large ships, or was all that fuss about 1/2 MOV points just whining?

Looks like Scum and Rebels have officially switched places in the meta. Wasn't too long ago that Rebels was the only faction at worlds finals.

Also, didn't they already try to nerf large ships, or was all that fuss about 1/2 MOV points just whining?

It seemsl like TLTs were aimed at large ships, but got pushed out ironically by scouts alpha strike. Introduce something which is strong against scouts and aces and those TLTs might be back. ^-^

Is anyone else not convinced that large ships need some toning down? I've been saying that. Look at these comments from multiple other posters. Look at them I swear.

Interestingly, if we had some counter cards for large ships you could then create an anti ace rebel list (easy!) and put a few points of anti large ship in there that would allow you to have a game vs both meta lists.

Also note that the rebel lists are on the back of really strong large ships once again. Dash ghost falcon. Yuck

But being large isn't the cause. The ships aren't suddenly inherently better because they're large. They're good because they are better costed compared to other ships. And because of that, you shouldn't look to penalize ships for being large because there are examples (even if few) of large base ships which do struggle. The Firesprays, ORS, and WSF all struggle mightily, and without Palp, the Lambda seemed very fair at its price as well.

FFG seems to still be having a rough time costing large base ships correctly. We will see if they have finally gotten it down with the Shadowcaster and Upsilon Shuttle.

I will agree though that there are some upgrades which are much better on a large base ship though that should probably be costed differently according to ship size. Engine could probably cost 5 or 6 and still be used on large bases, and that cost could/should be reduced to 2 or 3 for small base. Guidance Chips and LRS I feel should cost at least a point for large base ships, just by virtue of having a larger arc and easier capability of getting off their payload.

I think you guys are saying the same thing, just that Kdubb is pinpointing the problem. It's that they haven't done a good job of costing big ships, especially those with a lot of upgrade slots, especially with such cheap crew for scum that's like adding extra pilot abilities for almost nothing.

It's the dials.

When big ships have dials like the best small ships you are in dangerous territory. You can make a cheap big ship with strong stats but it needs to have a weak dial (YV, Lambda are extreme examples).

A big ship costed like a small ship and dialled like a small ship becomes a real problem.

It's the dials.

When big ships have dials like the best small ships you are in dangerous territory. You can make a cheap big ship with strong stats but it needs to have a weak dial (YV, Lambda are extreme examples).

A big ship costed like a small ship and dialled like a small ship becomes a real problem.

But I agree that in general, most big ship dials could be toned down. I really don't understand the reason behind the Jumpmaster dial. It's probably one of the top three dials in the game.

Wow. A complete bore fest of mainly jumpmasters and imp aces. Long live Epic/HotAC.

Don't hold back.

Tell us what you really think.

It's the dials.

When big ships have dials like the best small ships you are in dangerous territory. You can make a cheap big ship with strong stats but it needs to have a weak dial (YV, Lambda are extreme examples).

A big ship costed like a small ship and dialled like a small ship becomes a real problem.

Sort of, but I'd argue a 33 point YV (party bus) is way more cost effective than any combination of small generics you could get for that point cost, with the exception of a defender.

But I agree that in general, most big ship dials could be toned down. I really don't understand the reason behind the Jumpmaster dial. It's probably one of the top three dials in the game.

Depends, because that slow-ass turning circle will see you dead against almost any small ship that can get behind you - it leaves a glaring weakness.

problem with the party bus is there's only one party bus

unique upgrade restrictions and all that

So really its the fel of yvs

Be fair, Carnor is awesome too.

It's the Inquisitor of YVs.

And that listing is... both good and bad. Good that there aren't simply half a dozen cookie cutter builds on display. Bad if you were to go and ask "How many of these lists has an Inquisitor, Fel, or Jumpmaster?". (Whisper and Vader get a free pass these days because they're comparatively rare. Funny ol' world, isn't it...)

Be fair, Carnor is awesome too.

It's the Inquisitor of YVs.

And that listing is... both good and bad. Good that there aren't simply half a dozen cookie cutter builds on display. Bad if you were to go and ask "How many of these lists has an Inquisitor, Fel, or Jumpmaster?". (Whisper and Vader get a free pass these days because they're comparatively rare. Funny ol' world, isn't it...)

6 Whisper list make the cut, out of the 16 imperial lists.

What is also extremely noticeable is that not a single Biggs shows up, it almost as no one did bring Wes and Biggs to stop imperial aces and scouts to place highly.

Or perhaps Wes and Biggs aren't as effective as people are convinced they are and those using the combo just didn't place.

Well we just need patience. It's all going to change when the T-65 comes out with Rogue One.