This list is more for funsies but maybe it can have a bit more of an edge with your help:

Colonel Vessery (35)

- Tie/x7 (-2)

- Veteran Instincts (1)

Echo (30)

- Veteran Instincts (1)

- Stygium Particle Accelerator (2)

- Agent Kallus (2)

- Fire Control System (2)

Omega Leader (21)

- Juke (2)

- Comm. Relay (3)

---TOTAL: 97---

Why: The target lock synergy speaks for itself. I kept them all pilots at PS 8 for synchronized dancing, and by leaving the modification slots open on Vessery and Omega Leader, got myself a pretty good initiative bid.

Strategy: Mostly have Vessery and Omega Leader tag-teaming with Echo flanking and allowing Vessery to switch targets if he so chooses (via FCS on the Phantom).

Alternatives:

Vessery - What modifications do we use on Vessery? And is it dumb to have the Tie/x7 on him rather than the Tie/D? Again, very little exposure to this pilot. I think 3-4 red dice once per turn is enough.

Echo - Would you drop Stygium (and something else) to add Advanced Cloaking Device? Is that an auto-include on her? I usually play Whisper where the answer to that is obvious.

Omega Leader - He's doing his thing. I don't think I'll willing to part with points or inititiative bid to add a modification.

The only change I would recommend is drop Stygian + Kallus in favor of ACD. Other than that, I think you will be very happy with this build.

The only change I would recommend is drop Stygian + Kallus in favor of ACD. Other than that, I think you will be very happy with this build.

I tend to agree with you.. I can arrive at the same 97 points by doing this:

Echo (30)

- Veteran Instincts (1)

- Stygium Particle Accelerator (2)

- Agent Kallus (2)

- Fire Control System (2)

- Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

OR I could still have a respectable bid at 98 if I added Intelligence Agent.

Ya, ACD is too good to pass up even if it is Echo. Swap out SPA for ACD and maybe consider switching Kallus for Rebel Captive based on your local meta.

Another option is to just go with Whisper [intel, ACD, FCS, VI] at 100 points. I used to run that with 5 Academy Pilots and won a lot. Intel makes the initiative bidding much less important. If they give you initiative, you can block them reliably and still get your 4-agi on Whisper. If they take initiative, then they're flying blind against Whisper.

My Hateful Eights list is similar to yours but I don't make a initiative bid and swap Kallus for Rec Spec and SPA for ACD on Echo and then swap Vessery out for Carnor with PTL, Title, AT, and SD It's lots of fun and frustrating to opponents. 100pts

My Hateful Eights list is similar to yours but I don't make a initiative bid and swap Kallus for Rec Spec and SPA for ACD on Echo and then swap Vessery out for Carnor with PTL, Title, AT, and SD It's lots of fun and frustrating to opponents. 100pts

That's pretty nasty. I would lose some of the synergy of Vessery without FCS on Echo, but the Rec. Spec. does wonders on both sides of combat. I could actually fit Rec Spec into this list if I give up on the initiative bid.

Colonel Vessery (35)

- Tie/x7 (-2)

- Veteran Instincts (1)

Echo (30)

- Veteran Instincts (1)

- Adv. Cloaking Device (4)

- Recon Specialist (3)

- Fire Control System (2)

Omega Leader (21)

- Juke (2)

- Comm. Relay (3)

--- TOTAL: 100 ---

My Hateful Eights list is similar to yours but I don't make a initiative bid and swap Kallus for Rec Spec and SPA for ACD on Echo and then swap Vessery out for Carnor with PTL, Title, AT, and SD It's lots of fun and frustrating to opponents. 100pts

That's pretty nasty. I would lose some of the synergy of Vessery without FCS on Echo, but the Rec. Spec. does wonders on both sides of combat. I could actually fit Rec Spec into this list if I give up on the initiative bid.

Colonel Vessery (35)

- Tie/x7 (-2)

- Veteran Instincts (1)

Echo (30)

- Veteran Instincts (1)

- Adv. Cloaking Device (4)

- Recon Specialist (3)

- Fire Control System (2)

Omega Leader (21)

- Juke (2)

- Comm. Relay (3)

--- TOTAL: 100 ---

Oh I have FCS on Echo, like I said the only things I changed on her was Kallus and SPA.

Edit - I mostly like the synergy between OL and Carnor when Carnor is close to your target and OL jukes it so the target can't use the token to change the result back to an evade.

Well, the next time I'm playing will be casual - I plan on taking the 100-point build out for a spin and see how important initiative is. Echo is a beast and I cannot wait to unleash her.

Still need to paint the Phantom in First-Order colors...

Unfortunately initiative can be important for Echo and the need for ACD to have a chance to kick in before people start shooting at her but her biggest weakness is against the PS9+ guys and initiative won't help her with them.

I started looking at my above suggestions on the benchmark, and it is pretty good and super fun. Recon Specialist does help Echo on both offense and defense. Another option is Weapons Engineer to give Vessery more targets to shoot at.

Unfortunately initiative can be important for Echo and the need for ACD to have a chance to kick in before people start shooting at her but her biggest weakness is against the PS9+ guys and initiative won't help her with them.

You're exactly right. She loses that battle 100% of the time so I might as well beef her up to fight the PS 8 and lower ships. Recon Spec. is a really nice choice.

I've never considered it on a Phantom because I usually opt for barrel-roll or evade. Focus action will replace evade, for this list.

Unfortunately initiative can be important for Echo and the need for ACD to have a chance to kick in before people start shooting at her but her biggest weakness is against the PS9+ guys and initiative won't help her with them.

You're exactly right. She loses that battle 100% of the time so I might as well beef her up to fight the PS 8 and lower ships. Recon Spec. is a really nice choice.

I've never considered it on a Phantom because I usually opt for barrel-roll or evade. Focus action will replace evade, for this list.

Rebel Captive is a better form of protection than Recon Spec. Ships with push the limit must choose between foregoing their second action or not shooting at the ship with captive. Ships that do not use push the limit tend to be less mobile, and so you can put Echo in safe positions (i.e. the only way they can get arc on Echo is by using white moves and so will be taking unmodified shots at Echo and yet another stress token).

However, putting TIE/D on vessery is another way of protecting Echo. Vessery becomes Biggs in this case, since most opponents would rather shoot a TIE/D Vessery than Echo...

You can also use Echo as a formidable blocker. Echo's decloak is excellent for getting in surprise blocks on unsuspecting opponents

Unfortunately initiative can be important for Echo and the need for ACD to have a chance to kick in before people start shooting at her but her biggest weakness is against the PS9+ guys and initiative won't help her with them.

You're exactly right. She loses that battle 100% of the time so I might as well beef her up to fight the PS 8 and lower ships. Recon Spec. is a really nice choice.

I've never considered it on a Phantom because I usually opt for barrel-roll or evade. Focus action will replace evade, for this list.

Rebel Captive is a better form of protection than Recon Spec. Ships with push the limit must choose between foregoing their second action or not shooting at the ship with captive. Ships that do not use push the limit tend to be less mobile, and so you can put Echo in safe positions (i.e. the only way they can get arc on Echo is by using white moves and so will be taking unmodified shots at Echo and yet another stress token).

However, putting TIE/D on vessery is another way of protecting Echo. Vessery becomes Biggs in this case, since most opponents would rather shoot a TIE/D Vessery than Echo...

You can also use Echo as a formidable blocker. Echo's decloak is excellent for getting in surprise blocks on unsuspecting opponents

I'm listening...

I've not used Rebel Captive save for a few times on the Decimator. Is it really that effective? Asking genuinely.

Realistically - it may stop one or two shots a game, max, right? Then you have to shoot her. And once you shoot her, it's all about what she can do to protect that 2/2 stat-line. I guess what I'm saying is, convince me, because far enough into the game, not even an already-stressed Fel can not take shots against a ship that is worth more than him.

I'm listening...

I've not used Rebel Captive save for a few times on the Decimator. Is it really that effective? Asking genuinely.

Realistically - it may stop one or two shots a game, max, right? Then you have to shoot her. And once you shoot her, it's all about what she can do to protect that 2/2 stat-line. I guess what I'm saying is, convince me, because far enough into the game, not even an already-stressed Fel can not take shots against a ship that is worth more than him.

Honestly its a meta call.

I just wanted to point out that Rebel Captive is actually better at protecting vs higher PS attackers than Rec Spec. However, Rec Spec is better at protecting against lower PS attackers. The reason is because you get to shoot first and therefore ACD triggers and you have 4 green dice (its much easier to get eyeballs on 4 dice than 2). Also, since you are shooting first, you can decide not to use focus offensively if you know you will be taking incoming fire from more than one attacker.

Alternatively, you can protect Echo by beefing up Vessery. TIE/D + tractor beam turns him into a pretty scary prospect. No one is going to shoot Echo while that monster is on the board.

So which is better? Well, I think it depends in part on your meta: expect to see a lot of high PS aces? Rebel Captive. Expect to see more low PS stuff, or a mix? Recon Spec.

Also, your playstyle can impact it: if you tend to be aggressive, then TIE/D + tractor beam is probably the right call. If you are more cautious, then maybe stick with X-7.

Of course, if you have time to practice, the best thing to do is try all of them and see what you like best

Actually, I just thought I'd add this, since it has helped me become a better player and list builder:

When building a list, its important to add upgrades that help improve your chances of winning bad matchups. Conversely, upgrades that help you win matchups that you are already strong against tend to be superfluous.

For that reason, I much prefer Rebel Captive over Recon Spec. I find its not hard for Echo to dodge lower PS arcs and avoid concentrated fire. So for that reason, I don't find Recon Spec adds a lot of value, since Echo is already strong against lower PS and it only helps in fights where Echo has the advantage.

Rebel Captive on the other hand helps protect Echo more when he is weak (against higher PS stuff that can better react to Echo's decloak shenanigans). Something that gives you shot at winning difficult matches will ultimately prove to be the more effective upgrade...

Actually, I just thought I'd add this, since it has helped me become a better player and list builder:

When building a list, its important to add upgrades that help improve your chances of winning bad matchups. Conversely, upgrades that help you win matchups that you are already strong against tend to be superfluous.

For that reason, I much prefer Rebel Captive over Recon Spec. I find its not hard for Echo to dodge lower PS arcs and avoid concentrated fire. So for that reason, I don't find Recon Spec adds a lot of value, since Echo is already strong against lower PS and it only helps in fights where Echo has the advantage.

Rebel Captive on the other hand helps protect Echo more when he is weak (against higher PS stuff that can better react to Echo's decloak shenanigans). Something that gives you shot at winning difficult matches will ultimately prove to be the more effective upgrade...

Your logic is undeniable and I agree.

For that same reason, I am going to keep the list at 100 points (with Rebel Captive). Here's my reasoning:

PS8 ships will mostly over-lap other Imperial lists (Inquisitor, mostly). The other ships in lists that have Inquisitor are going to be Shuttles (not a PS threat) and other Aces (will always beat Echo in the PS game). So the initiative bid is really about Echo firing before or after the Inquisitor and other PS8 pilots, namely:

- Poe

- Miranda

- Corran

- Inquisitor

- Rexlar

- Omega Leader

Even then, half of these ships will be put off by one (or two, depending on if they PtL) stress tokens at the start of the next round.

Rebel Captive just seems to work. And the initiative bid isn't really worth dropping anything on the list at this time. Playtesting may say otherwise, but thar she blows.

Actually, I just thought I'd add this, since it has helped me become a better player and list builder:

When building a list, its important to add upgrades that help improve your chances of winning bad matchups. Conversely, upgrades that help you win matchups that you are already strong against tend to be superfluous.

For that reason, I much prefer Rebel Captive over Recon Spec. I find its not hard for Echo to dodge lower PS arcs and avoid concentrated fire. So for that reason, I don't find Recon Spec adds a lot of value, since Echo is already strong against lower PS and it only helps in fights where Echo has the advantage.

Rebel Captive on the other hand helps protect Echo more when he is weak (against higher PS stuff that can better react to Echo's decloak shenanigans). Something that gives you shot at winning difficult matches will ultimately prove to be the more effective upgrade...

I will have to remember this when I get around to purchasing a shuttle so I can have a Rebel Captive to use, until then I will keep my Rec Spec and bask in the glory that is two focus tokens!

Quick update: Rebel Captive is the way to go.

Had a lousy showing (both strategically and with my dice), lost, but learned some lessons about the list. Echo has her moments but is no Whisper and a near naked Vessery NEEDS his ability.

Not enough control in this list. Not competitive. But it does look cool on table.