If the debri field is deployed on top of a ship, does the ship suffer stress/roll for damage immideately or only if its maneuver overlaps it next time it moves?

Current best guess is it takes the stress and rolls for damage immediately on the token hitting it, then potentially again if its template overlaps when it moves.

But there are people who will argue differently; it needs an FAQ to be sure.

Current best guess is it takes the stress and rolls for damage immediately on the token hitting it, then potentially again if its template overlaps when it moves.

But there are people who will argue differently; it needs an FAQ to be sure.

There will ALWAYS be people who will argue differently. That's just unavoidable.

But, I would agree that you would take the stress and roll for damage immediately and then again if your manoeuvre template hits it. It did say to drop the cloud like a bomb.

I'm one of those that disagrees. Debris obstacles have no effect unless you end a move on it, or your template crosses it. Neither of those effects is achieved by deploying the cloud directly onto the ship. Tractor beam was specifically clarified to trigger the obstacle effect, overriding the requirement for a maneuver (as it was illegal to BR or Boost onto an obstacle).

It does make sense that the bomb token works this way, as the token is consumed on effect (so it's immediate detonation simplifies play, in that you don't have to mark a ship, lay the debris, then somehow replace the ship on top of the debris). The debris cloud, however, is not, and remains.

The description on the debris cloud is specific that stress isn't assigned until after the check pilot stress step.

The debris cloud token card is specific, overriding the general category of "cargo token". I suspect that the cargo token is a general element that will cover many types of effects, just like bombs/mines. Maybe some day we see "bin of droid parts" or some other thing that acts like an asteroid. Or a Tibianna Gas Cloud that you roll for damage if you attack when you're on it, or gives ion effects or something.

The Using Cargo Reference Card quite clearly states that if the token is droppen on a ship, place the token under ste ship's base and apply the effects of the token immediately.

Yeah, but obstacles don't apply stress until you maneuver on/over them (excepting tractor beam effects, which were faq'd as a specific exception). The effects that obstacles have are to prevent firing in the case of asteroids, as well as roll 1 damage dice and take hits/crits rolled. The stress mechanic requires there to be a check pilot stress step (clearly indicated on the debris cloud token card). You can't apply the wording "immediately apply the effects of" on card A then ignore the specific instructions requiring the check pilot stress step on card B.

I think we have been through this a bunch of times for TB. In the rule book, the only way you can overlap an obstacle is by executing a maneuver. The obstacle rules are worded accordingly, and specify the timing of when the different effects of the obstacle happen.

The rules also state that game effects can override the rules. TB and RCC are two such effects. Both TB (via errata) and RCC (via Cargo Reference card) override the rules. This means you can overlap an obstacle in other ways that by executing a maneuver. It also overrides the maneuver related timing parts, but not the effects of the obstacle token. This means that if you overlap a cargo/debris field as a result of TB or being hit by a Cargo token, you apply all the effects (roll red die, and suffer and Crit results, and get a stress token) immediately.

You seem to think that only parts of the rules get overridden, and dismiss the rest because it is worded with a maneuver in mind.

TB overrides the need for maneuver by breaking the no boost/br rule onto obstacles first, then overriding the need for a maneuver. It also involves relocating the ship in question. Those are 3 things that aren't happening when you drop a cargo token on a ship that hasn't moved yet. Those rules exceptions are for the TB only, as the rest of the game rules remain in effect. The rules weren't changed for TB, as they still exist, TB gets to override them.

Honestly the dialogue on this is entertaining to me. It may be semantics, but cases are won and lost on semantics. I still think we'll end up seeing a FAQ that will prevent dropping a debris cloud and having the effect of dealing stress prior to activation. But I agree, it needs a FAQ, pronto.

It is true that it is without precedent.

Never in the past was it possible to give a stress to a ship during activation phase before him activating. Loosing an action because you gain a stress is possible, if you move over a debris... but gaining the stress before reveiling your maneuver is really harsh. It mean your opponent decide your maneuver. For a 1 points Upgrade this is powerful. You can't always plan your move in case it happen that between all the possible play of the opponent, he could end up dropping it under you.

I don't know if they thought about it, or as some other design, just done it without thinking...

I'd be pretty sure that they thought about it. Their intent is usually clear, and wording on cards that doesn't convey that intent clearly has been the only issue. There hasn't been a need to change the core rules, only a need to correct poorly worded card text.

And until this is officially released, it's going to be another case of "wait and see".

I hope they rewrite those stupid obstacle rules when they release cargo chutes. It's usually clear what the intent of cards are but the rules don't support that intent strongly enough when it comes to obstacles.

I hope they rewrite those stupid obstacle rules when they release cargo chutes. It's usually clear what the intent of cards are but the rules don't support that intent strongly enough when it comes to obstacles.

The rules aren't likely to get rewritten. They never have been in the past. It all depends on whether they have a clear and concise rules insert with the Shadow Caster, because that's the piece that's going to cause the headaches. None of this should need a FAQ entry if they did that properly.

Yes rules have been rewritten in the past.

Cloak rule have been.

All the combat sequence was.

Target Lock that you can now require.

They could and they should change the rule about obstacle and bomb. It should not be linked to executing a maneuver in the main rule book.