For the Empire, it's easy due to the Interdictor.

But what if your fleet doesn't have one? Or you're playing rebels?

This is what I've been encountering while testing the Liberty (self testing due to lack of Armada players in my area). I've been doing a pitched battle between a fleet with Madine, a decked out Liberty, Salvation, and Admonition versus a Mothma MSU with Admonition, Foresight, and 3 CR90s. Guess who's dead by turn 3. EVERY. GAME.

So if I've got a fleet built around one or two beefy damage dealers, what do I do against the MSU archetype without resorting to changing the entire fleet to being a dedicated anti-MSU fleet?

Slow down. That is number 1.

Number 2 is predict where they are going to be and Ambush them.

3 is using squadrons with Bomber

4 is Tractor Beam Whales and even /gasp! Tractor Beam Flotillas.

5 is prioritize the units that need to go and take it o e activation at a time.

Very hard to self test against msu since so much of countering them is catching them... you either always know where they are going, or they always know how to get around your moves

Playing ISD's against them pre waves 3/4, you don't worry about going 10-0 and just pick targets. If player 1, you can catch enough of them to stay ahead on points if your big ships are built as shipkillers, if player2, have objectives that punish spreading out.

I've seen quite a few Flotillas w/Slicer Tools and Tractor Beams. The Slicer Tools have very good reach indeed, but won't help much if Demo has a Nav token (and when doesn't it?). Tractors are distance 1-5 when you activate, so that's only good once Demo has made the first run (or the player makes a mistake, but don't count on that).

For Rebels, maybe QS + Slicers (possibly tractors too), then also BH w/Slicers + Tractors? Suppressor and a naked Goz for the Imps? Tractors only work on small ships of course, so maybe you want them on something bigger. On the other hand, the majority of fleets now seem to be running Demo or those pesky MC30s, so my bet is the Small limit isn't too much of a worry. Even Yavaris is a small ship. And Jaina's Light. And those bloody Raiders.

Now, if you have more activation than your opponent, that's a big plus (isn't it always?). You can't actually make Demo not come shoot you, but you can keep a Slicer/tractor boat ready, then hit it after it activates. Take away the nav token and set next turn's dial of Squadron. The downside is that it doesn't stop that double or triple tap. The upside is that it won't bet getting away or getting as good a position for the next run.

The G8 is mostly to take out the ET move. It's distance 1-5, so you can't do it until Demo makes its first run. Same with Konstantine, since he is 1-5 in the Status Phase.

Good ways to mitigate Demo damage is APs (too bad they suck so bad vs XI7s). Lando is a one-hit wonder, but could be what saves you. Admonition of course (or dare I say, Landmonition?). And of course the Targeting Scrambler. That one is like Lando, only it resurrects!

Then you have the old "counters" of setting up overlapping fields of fire, deploying blockers etc. Can be done, but as most of us know, a good 1st player with Demo does have a strong advantage, especially if he outactivates you.

The old answers are still good. The new ships bring new possible answers:

1. Flotillas are big. Much of a DeMSU's power is the ability to last/first off of activation advantage. Flotillas are cheap activations. I'd guess activation counts rise very slightly. Some lists will have 4 that might have had 3, and some will have five that may have had 4. Because they add easy placement and a DeMSU thrives off early placement, they'll do well. DeMSUs are usually light squadrons, and Flotillas help by making it more efficient to activation squads from your ships. Finally, Flotillas make great blockers to keep black die units away from your ships.

2. Squadrons were a good choice previously. With more upgrades, this only gets better. The threat range is a bit large thanks to fighter coordination team and flight commander, which means more careful Demo play is required.

3. The Liberty should shred Raiders fairly well, and it can tank Demo, even moreso if you add Lando to it.

I still expect to see Demo around, I just don't expect to see DeMSUs very frequently. When they appear, they'll be built vastly differently.

Thanks for the input!

I got another game in, this time, I used Admonition (with ECM and Lando) in my Liberty fleet as bait. It died surprisingly quick against its exact mirror and Foresight due to APTs. However, that sacrifice did give the Liberty and Salvation a chance to kill both MC30s.

At the end of the game, with only the Liberty, some fighters, and a CR90 surviving, I realized that the MSU side made a mistake and assumed that it wouldn't need an achievable quick getaway after killing Admonition, and that really caused the downfall.

The main issue is that after trying out Madine with the Liberty and MC30s, I wanted to make a list with a beefed up Mon Karren and a "Landmonition" with Madine at the helm. However, it's looking like the MSU might be that kind of list's weakness. Based on what I've seen, and on what you all have said (not attacking you guys, I'm grateful for the help), I may have to just toss the idea and either remove much of the upgrades, the Admonition, or the Mon Karren and add stuff to make the list much more flexible.

Edit: Here's the fleets btw:

MothMSU:

MC30 torpedo, Mon Mothma, Admonition, Lando, ECM, Ordinance Experts, APT

MC30 Torpedo, Foresight, Ordinance Experts, ECM, APT

3x CR90B, SW-7

3xYT-2400

Madine Fleet:

MC80 Battle cruiser, Mon Karren, Intel Officer, Gunnery Team, Engine Techs, Leading Shots, X17

MC30 torpedo, Madine, Admonition, Lando, ECM, Ordinance Experts, APT

Neb-b Support, Salvation, Spinal Turbos

Jan Ors

3x X-Wings

3. The Liberty should shred Raiders fairly well, and it can tank Demo, even moreso if you add Lando to it.

.

My spaceship tis of thee,

Sweet Lando Liberty,

On thee games swing~~

Don't care bout your weak sides,

You're still my favorite ride,

Way better than Dodonna's Pride

Lets blow this thing~~~~

Flip the table and start monkey throwing poop. You'll never have to worry about MSU again.

Thanks for the input!

I got another game in, this time, I used Admonition (with ECM and Lando) in my Liberty fleet as bait. It died surprisingly quick against its exact mirror and Foresight due to APTs. However, that sacrifice did give the Liberty and Salvation a chance to kill both MC30s.

At the end of the game, with only the Liberty, some fighters, and a CR90 surviving, I realized that the MSU side made a mistake and assumed that it wouldn't need an achievable quick getaway after killing Admonition, and that really caused the downfall.

The main issue is that after trying out Madine with the Liberty and MC30s, I wanted to make a list with a beefed up Mon Karren and a "Landmonition" with Madine at the helm. However, it's looking like the MSU might be that kind of list's weakness. Based on what I've seen, and on what you all have said (not attacking you guys, I'm grateful for the help), I may have to just toss the idea and either remove much of the upgrades, the Admonition, or the Mon Karren and add stuff to make the list much more flexible.

Edit: Here's the fleets btw:

MothMSU:

MC30 torpedo, Mon Mothma, Admonition, Lando, ECM, Ordinance Experts, APT

MC30 Torpedo, Foresight, Ordinance Experts, ECM, APT

3x CR90B, SW-7

3xYT-2400

Madine Fleet:

MC80 Battle cruiser, Mon Karren, Intel Officer, Gunnery Team, Engine Techs, Leading Shots, X17

MC30 torpedo, Madine, Admonition, Lando, ECM, Ordinance Experts, APT

Neb-b Support, Salvation, Spinal Turbos

Jan Ors

3x X-Wings

In your first list you might want to consider removing the ECMs from the MC30's. So far in every game I've used MC30's, I've never felt like I needed ECMS, especially with Admonition. The second list you can probably cut the ECM's as well and maybe the Engine Techs on the MC80. Speed 4 is nice on the MC80 but not exactly needed and speed 4 on a large base is actually kind of hard to mambo correctly - you more likely to find yourself in an arc you were trying to avoid or have more of a difficult time making use of a single click speed 1 maneuver. You may also want to consider puttng Lando on the Liberty just to help survive-ability but I know how good on Admo he can be, but then again maybe Admo would be just fine being Admo?

With those points you drop you could take a transport to give you some more fighter support and help your activation count if you are really worried about MSU.

Some rebel notes for DeMSU:

• Fast ships + rogues are death for the typical DeMSU list. They don't have enough squadrons to fend off something like 8xYT-2400, and if you are all CR90s and MC30s, you can just run away while they chew Demo up.
• Ships that are resilient to a triple tap: The MC80 (all four varieties, really) and Admonition as base platforms, flotillas for their annoying scatter tokens.
• Rieekan: if they triple tap something and try to fly away, then that thing still kills them back, that's a different ball game.
• Cracken & Lando: Demo needs those dice. Both of these guys greatly reduce the threat of the triple tap by taking away significant amounts of firepower.

Some combination of all of these things is probably the best solution.

Some rebel notes for DeMSU:

• Fast ships + rogues are death for the typical DeMSU list. They don't have enough squadrons to fend off something like 8xYT-2400, and if you are all CR90s and MC30s, you can just run away while they chew Demo up.
• Ships that are resilient to a triple tap: The MC80 (all four varieties, really) and Admonition as base platforms, flotillas for their annoying scatter tokens.
• Rieekan: if they triple tap something and try to fly away, then that thing still kills them back, that's a different ball game.
• Cracken & Lando: Demo needs those dice. Both of these guys greatly reduce the threat of the triple tap by taking away significant amounts of firepower.

Some combination of all of these things is probably the best solution.

You had me up to the "8xYT-2400"....If I have to counter msu with $160 worth of squads, there is an issue with the meta. The other points make a lot of sense though.....

Some rebel notes for DeMSU:

• Fast ships + rogues are death for the typical DeMSU list. They don't have enough squadrons to fend off something like 8xYT-2400, and if you are all CR90s and MC30s, you can just run away while they chew Demo up.
• Ships that are resilient to a triple tap: The MC80 (all four varieties, really) and Admonition as base platforms, flotillas for their annoying scatter tokens.
• Rieekan: if they triple tap something and try to fly away, then that thing still kills them back, that's a different ball game.
• Cracken & Lando: Demo needs those dice. Both of these guys greatly reduce the threat of the triple tap by taking away significant amounts of firepower.

Some combination of all of these things is probably the best solution.

You had me up to the "8xYT-2400"....If I have to counter msu with $160 worth of squads, there is an issue with the meta. The other points make a lot of sense though.....

More rogue rebels incoming!

3. The Liberty should shred Raiders fairly well, and it can tank Demo, even moreso if you add Lando to it.

.

My spaceship tis of thee,

Sweet Lando Liberty,

On thee games swing~~

Don't care bout your weak sides,

You're still my favorite ride,

Way better than Dodonna's Pride

Lets blow this thing~~~~

Petition to turn this into the first verse of the Armada National Anthem.

Flotillas as a speed bump

Flotillas as a speed bump

I love sacrificing my crews for the greater good!

Just send wave after wave of your men until the killbots reach their kill limit and shut down.

In all seriousness I have been having fun with Sensor Teams and Quad Turbolaser Turrets and spinal mount on the liberty

Yeah, it's expensive but it is death to small ships giving you a lot of ability to fish for accuracies and with a little sacrifice you can guarantee 2 accuracies in every shot, which sometimes is all you need to shut down every evade and start putting the hurt on some small ships.

In all seriousness I have been having fun with Sensor Teams and Quad Turbolaser Turrets and spinal mount on the liberty

Yeah, it's expensive but it is death to small ships giving you a lot of ability to fish for accuracies and with a little sacrifice you can guarantee 2 accuracies in every shot, which sometimes is all you need to shut down every evade and start putting the hurt on some small ships.

Surely H9's and Quad Turbolaser Turrets are better?

You are adding 1 dice with SM, then spending one dice to get 1 accuracy via Sensor Teams, and Sensor Team is exhaust to use.

Where as H9's cost nothing to flip a dice to an accuracy, is not exhaust to use, and so can be used with a GT to hit two targets a round, with 2 guaranteed accuracys. And it leaves that slot open for something else...like a Gunnery Team, or Veteran Gunners.

.

My spaceship tis of thee,

Sweet Lando Liberty,

On thee games swing~~

Don't care bout your weak sides,

You're still my favorite ride,

Way better than Dodonna's Pride

Lets blow this thing~~~~

Hehe....oh god, this is awesome.

Just one question to the OP......why would I be playing Rebels?? *ducks*

In all seriousness I have been having fun with Sensor Teams and Quad Turbolaser Turrets and spinal mount on the liberty

Yeah, it's expensive but it is death to small ships giving you a lot of ability to fish for accuracies and with a little sacrifice you can guarantee 2 accuracies in every shot, which sometimes is all you need to shut down every evade and start putting the hurt on some small ships.

Surely H9's and Quad Turbolaser Turrets are better?

You are adding 1 dice with SM, then spending one dice to get 1 accuracy via Sensor Teams, and Sensor Team is exhaust to use.

Where as H9's cost nothing to flip a dice to an accuracy, is not exhaust to use, and so can be used with a GT to hit two targets a round, with 2 guaranteed accuracys. And it leaves that slot open for something else...like a Gunnery Team, or Veteran Gunners.

Keep in mind H9's don't quite cost nothing: you can only flip a die that's already a hit or crit with it. Which, whether that is too high a cost or trivial, is not no cost, exactly.

Plus H9 eats the turbo slot.

Sensor Teams don't. And on your Ackbar MC30, you're not taking OE anyway.

Wave 5 will aid the rebels with new squads. But now you're dealing with arquitens.

What does MSU stand for?

Mini skirt underoos

Macho sauce umpire