Multiple small unit

H9s eat the turbo slot, as has been stated.

The nice thing about using the sensor teams is that it is situational and tends to work well with red dice when you have a large pool and innevitably roll blanks.

H9s you are using up a precious hit. even in the few games I've seen this combo used I have seen several red dice pools with 2 blanks, usually thats a **** shame and with H9s you now have to compound that to trigger the QTLs, with STs you don't mind that at all as you go from 2 blanks to 2 accuracies and you leave your hits alone!

If you roll a natural accuracy you simply don't use your sensor teams. The end result is you end up with a pretty reliable token denial setup. Add intel officer and Mon Karen and your opponent may as well just throw out his defense tokens cause he won't be using them much.

I only think with flotillas and MSU play has made Home One stronger. Being able to auto-cancel a Scatter every time is kinda ridiculous.

I like H9s, but haven't taken them in a while because I don't need the accuracy as badly. We'll see how many Flotills are out there.

A better setup for say, a LIberty might be Spinal armaments (or Slaved turrets if you need the points) and Sensor teams. You buy the extra die that sensor teams will be chucking away. And with one power arc, you're not going to be needing the AA out of it, so gunnery teams aren't needed (or you slip Advanced Gunnery into your objective selection).

I like H9s, but haven't taken them in a while because I don't need the accuracy as badly. We'll see how many Flotills are out there.

A better setup for say, a LIberty might be Spinal armaments (or Slaved turrets if you need the points) and Sensor teams. You buy the extra die that sensor teams will be chucking away. And with one power arc, you're not going to be needing the AA out of it, so gunnery teams aren't needed (or you slip Advanced Gunnery into your objective selection).

Yeah, but with QLTs the natural accuracies are the business and they synergize with the Sensor teams since the die you "chuck" now becomes an accuracy as soon as you change another red to an accuracy. When dealing with MSUs you are going to be dealing quite frequently with dual evade ships and locking those down can be the difference between a raider getting an APT shot on you or going up in a puff of smoke. Against Mothma MC30's at medium/short range locking down both evades makes them much more vulnerable. I actually rolled against a raider at long range and managed a natural accuracy and sensor teamed for another accuracy (total 3) locked down all his def tokens and landed a hit and a crit, crit was structural dmg. So in summary a front arc that would have been mostly shrugged off with no accuracies nearly 1-shotted the raider.

Thanks for the input!

I got another game in, this time, I used Admonition (with ECM and Lando) in my Liberty fleet as bait. It died surprisingly quick against its exact mirror and Foresight due to APTs. However, that sacrifice did give the Liberty and Salvation a chance to kill both MC30s.

At the end of the game, with only the Liberty, some fighters, and a CR90 surviving, I realized that the MSU side made a mistake and assumed that it wouldn't need an achievable quick getaway after killing Admonition, and that really caused the downfall.

The main issue is that after trying out Madine with the Liberty and MC30s, I wanted to make a list with a beefed up Mon Karren and a "Landmonition" with Madine at the helm. However, it's looking like the MSU might be that kind of list's weakness. Based on what I've seen, and on what you all have said (not attacking you guys, I'm grateful for the help), I may have to just toss the idea and either remove much of the upgrades, the Admonition, or the Mon Karren and add stuff to make the list much more flexible.

Edit: Here's the fleets btw:

MothMSU:

MC30 torpedo, Mon Mothma, Admonition, Lando, ECM, Ordinance Experts, APT

MC30 Torpedo, Foresight, Ordinance Experts, ECM, APT

3x CR90B, SW-7

3xYT-2400

Madine Fleet:

MC80 Battle cruiser, Mon Karren, Intel Officer, Gunnery Team, Engine Techs, Leading Shots, X17

MC30 torpedo, Madine, Admonition, Lando, ECM, Ordinance Experts, APT

Neb-b Support, Salvation, Spinal Turbos

Jan Ors

3x X-Wings

After having used them for quite a while, I can highly recommend Advanced Projectors on your Mc30s. My Mon Mothma 30s each have them, one with Admonition the other with Lando. I only lose one if I fly stupid, I almost never lose them both.

Plus H9 eats the turbo slot.

Sensor Teams don't. And on your Ackbar MC30, you're not taking OE anyway.

He was talking about the Liberty, which has 2 TL slots, hence his "I've been running Spinal Armament, with QTLT & Sensor Teams."

And I said H9's cost nothing, because you do not have to spend a dice to generate it's effect, nor do you exhaust them to use them, yes you flip a dice over to an accuracy, in comparison it is an inconsequential cost.

Veteran Gunners, H9's and QTLT, is a far more efficient way of going about fishing for a red accuracy, than SA/ST/QTLT, the added benefit being if you roll 1 red accuracy initially, you can reroll any blanks with the VG's instead of them all being useless.

Who is 'he'? A specific poster?

I was talking in general terms. Sensor teams is a viable option of you expect to have blanks in a big pool, and aren't using the weapons slot.

Thanks for the input!

I got another game in, this time, I used Admonition (with ECM and Lando) in my Liberty fleet as bait. It died surprisingly quick against its exact mirror and Foresight due to APTs. However, that sacrifice did give the Liberty and Salvation a chance to kill both MC30s.

At the end of the game, with only the Liberty, some fighters, and a CR90 surviving, I realized that the MSU side made a mistake and assumed that it wouldn't need an achievable quick getaway after killing Admonition, and that really caused the downfall.

The main issue is that after trying out Madine with the Liberty and MC30s, I wanted to make a list with a beefed up Mon Karren and a "Landmonition" with Madine at the helm. However, it's looking like the MSU might be that kind of list's weakness. Based on what I've seen, and on what you all have said (not attacking you guys, I'm grateful for the help), I may have to just toss the idea and either remove much of the upgrades, the Admonition, or the Mon Karren and add stuff to make the list much more flexible.

Edit: Here's the fleets btw:

MothMSU:

MC30 torpedo, Mon Mothma, Admonition, Lando, ECM, Ordinance Experts, APT

MC30 Torpedo, Foresight, Ordinance Experts, ECM, APT

3x CR90B, SW-7

3xYT-2400

Madine Fleet:

MC80 Battle cruiser, Mon Karren, Intel Officer, Gunnery Team, Engine Techs, Leading Shots, X17

MC30 torpedo, Madine, Admonition, Lando, ECM, Ordinance Experts, APT

Neb-b Support, Salvation, Spinal Turbos

Jan Ors

3x X-Wings

In your first list you might want to consider removing the ECMs from the MC30's. So far in every game I've used MC30's, I've never felt like I needed ECMS, especially with Admonition. The second list you can probably cut the ECM's as well and maybe the Engine Techs on the MC80. Speed 4 is nice on the MC80 but not exactly needed and speed 4 on a large base is actually kind of hard to mambo correctly - you more likely to find yourself in an arc you were trying to avoid or have more of a difficult time making use of a single click speed 1 maneuver. You may also want to consider puttng Lando on the Liberty just to help survive-ability but I know how good on Admo he can be, but then again maybe Admo would be just fine being Admo?

With those points you drop you could take a transport to give you some more fighter support and help your activation count if you are really worried about MSU.

In the game I played, ECMS were very useful against the Mon Karren. Oh, you acc'ed one redirect and told me that I'll have to discard the other one if I use it? Well, I'll ECM the acc'ed one and use that instead. You are right that it might not be useful against other fleets through, as my Admonition in the Madine fleet never used it.

Engine techs is more mobility insurance at low speeds than anything else, just something to allow me to quickly escape/rush in if necessary without having to change my base speed. (Although I'm wondering if I should just be using SpamNav^TM while having Madine as my Commander).

Intel Officer versus Lando. Intel Officer on my Mon Karren is a boost to my offense. Mon Karren forces the opponent to use only one defense token, and Intel Officer ensures that if the opponent uses the most effective Defense Token for that attack, that Token gets removed from play, boosting future attacks from me. However, Lando on my Liberty means greater survivability for my Liberty (although reducing the survivability with the Admonition, no longer making it the tankiest ship in the fleet). I'm not really sure which way to go on this one because it's a direct trade off of offense versus defense.

@Matt Antilles: On the Advanced Projectors, they (and the Redirect tokens in general) are the reason I have X17 Turbolasers on my Mon Karren. No offense, but what do you do, in your games, when going up against someone with X17?

Thanks for the input!

I got another game in, this time, I used Admonition (with ECM and Lando) in my Liberty fleet as bait. It died surprisingly quick against its exact mirror and Foresight due to APTs. However, that sacrifice did give the Liberty and Salvation a chance to kill both MC30s.

At the end of the game, with only the Liberty, some fighters, and a CR90 surviving, I realized that the MSU side made a mistake and assumed that it wouldn't need an achievable quick getaway after killing Admonition, and that really caused the downfall.

The main issue is that after trying out Madine with the Liberty and MC30s, I wanted to make a list with a beefed up Mon Karren and a "Landmonition" with Madine at the helm. However, it's looking like the MSU might be that kind of list's weakness. Based on what I've seen, and on what you all have said (not attacking you guys, I'm grateful for the help), I may have to just toss the idea and either remove much of the upgrades, the Admonition, or the Mon Karren and add stuff to make the list much more flexible.

Edit: Here's the fleets btw:

MothMSU:

MC30 torpedo, Mon Mothma, Admonition, Lando, ECM, Ordinance Experts, APT

MC30 Torpedo, Foresight, Ordinance Experts, ECM, APT

3x CR90B, SW-7

3xYT-2400

Madine Fleet:

MC80 Battle cruiser, Mon Karren, Intel Officer, Gunnery Team, Engine Techs, Leading Shots, X17

MC30 torpedo, Madine, Admonition, Lando, ECM, Ordinance Experts, APT

Neb-b Support, Salvation, Spinal Turbos

Jan Ors

3x X-Wings

In your first list you might want to consider removing the ECMs from the MC30's. So far in every game I've used MC30's, I've never felt like I needed ECMS, especially with Admonition. The second list you can probably cut the ECM's as well and maybe the Engine Techs on the MC80. Speed 4 is nice on the MC80 but not exactly needed and speed 4 on a large base is actually kind of hard to mambo correctly - you more likely to find yourself in an arc you were trying to avoid or have more of a difficult time making use of a single click speed 1 maneuver. You may also want to consider puttng Lando on the Liberty just to help survive-ability but I know how good on Admo he can be, but then again maybe Admo would be just fine being Admo?

With those points you drop you could take a transport to give you some more fighter support and help your activation count if you are really worried about MSU.

In the game I played, ECMS were very useful against the Mon Karren. Oh, you acc'ed one redirect and told me that I'll have to discard the other one if I use it? Well, I'll ECM the acc'ed one and use that instead. You are right that it might not be useful against other fleets through, as my Admonition in the Madine fleet never used it.

Engine techs is more mobility insurance at low speeds than anything else, just something to allow me to quickly escape/rush in if necessary without having to change my base speed. (Although I'm wondering if I should just be using SpamNav^TM while having Madine as my Commander).

Intel Officer versus Lando. Intel Officer on my Mon Karren is a boost to my offense. Mon Karren forces the opponent to use only one defense token, and Intel Officer ensures that if the opponent uses the most effective Defense Token for that attack, that Token gets removed from play, boosting future attacks from me. However, Lando on my Liberty means greater survivability for my Liberty (although reducing the survivability with the Admonition, no longer making it the tankiest ship in the fleet). I'm not really sure which way to go on this one because it's a direct trade off of offense versus defense.

@Matt Antilles: On the Advanced Projectors, they (and the Redirect tokens in general) are the reason I have X17 Turbolasers on my Mon Karren. No offense, but what do you do, in your games, when going up against someone with X17?

Looks like you picked out the nuances and really put some thought into it. It looks like we just have a difference in style so to each their own I guess. I do suggest you try the slim downed MC30 though if you ever have the inkling. It will change how you fly them a bit but you can find some good places to spend the points you spent on insurance. Give Liberty w/Lando a try. The only reason I'm advocate for that over the MC30 in your list is because the MC80 is just more expensive so it needs to be protected and its a glass cannon. Redundant Braces w/o ECMS just aren't enough against ISDs, Demolisher, and MC80s.

For Madine, his card almost screams Nav every turn. At least the first turn, I bank a nav, then maybe CF on the next dial just for some xtra oomph on the first shot, then Nav from there on out.

Thanks for the input!

I got another game in, this time, I used Admonition (with ECM and Lando) in my Liberty fleet as bait. It died surprisingly quick against its exact mirror and Foresight due to APTs. However, that sacrifice did give the Liberty and Salvation a chance to kill both MC30s.

At the end of the game, with only the Liberty, some fighters, and a CR90 surviving, I realized that the MSU side made a mistake and assumed that it wouldn't need an achievable quick getaway after killing Admonition, and that really caused the downfall.

The main issue is that after trying out Madine with the Liberty and MC30s, I wanted to make a list with a beefed up Mon Karren and a "Landmonition" with Madine at the helm. However, it's looking like the MSU might be that kind of list's weakness. Based on what I've seen, and on what you all have said (not attacking you guys, I'm grateful for the help), I may have to just toss the idea and either remove much of the upgrades, the Admonition, or the Mon Karren and add stuff to make the list much more flexible.

Edit: Here's the fleets btw:

MothMSU:

MC30 torpedo, Mon Mothma, Admonition, Lando, ECM, Ordinance Experts, APT

MC30 Torpedo, Foresight, Ordinance Experts, ECM, APT

3x CR90B, SW-7

3xYT-2400

Madine Fleet:

MC80 Battle cruiser, Mon Karren, Intel Officer, Gunnery Team, Engine Techs, Leading Shots, X17

MC30 torpedo, Madine, Admonition, Lando, ECM, Ordinance Experts, APT

Neb-b Support, Salvation, Spinal Turbos

Jan Ors

3x X-Wings

In your first list you might want to consider removing the ECMs from the MC30's. So far in every game I've used MC30's, I've never felt like I needed ECMS, especially with Admonition. The second list you can probably cut the ECM's as well and maybe the Engine Techs on the MC80. Speed 4 is nice on the MC80 but not exactly needed and speed 4 on a large base is actually kind of hard to mambo correctly - you more likely to find yourself in an arc you were trying to avoid or have more of a difficult time making use of a single click speed 1 maneuver. You may also want to consider puttng Lando on the Liberty just to help survive-ability but I know how good on Admo he can be, but then again maybe Admo would be just fine being Admo?

With those points you drop you could take a transport to give you some more fighter support and help your activation count if you are really worried about MSU.

In the game I played, ECMS were very useful against the Mon Karren. Oh, you acc'ed one redirect and told me that I'll have to discard the other one if I use it? Well, I'll ECM the acc'ed one and use that instead. You are right that it might not be useful against other fleets through, as my Admonition in the Madine fleet never used it.

Engine techs is more mobility insurance at low speeds than anything else, just something to allow me to quickly escape/rush in if necessary without having to change my base speed. (Although I'm wondering if I should just be using SpamNav^TM while having Madine as my Commander).

Intel Officer versus Lando. Intel Officer on my Mon Karren is a boost to my offense. Mon Karren forces the opponent to use only one defense token, and Intel Officer ensures that if the opponent uses the most effective Defense Token for that attack, that Token gets removed from play, boosting future attacks from me. However, Lando on my Liberty means greater survivability for my Liberty (although reducing the survivability with the Admonition, no longer making it the tankiest ship in the fleet). I'm not really sure which way to go on this one because it's a direct trade off of offense versus defense.

@Matt Antilles: On the Advanced Projectors, they (and the Redirect tokens in general) are the reason I have X17 Turbolasers on my Mon Karren. No offense, but what do you do, in your games, when going up against someone with X17?

I don't worry about XI7s, basically. They are the obvious downsize to Adv Proj, however I only face a fleet with them like 20 to 25% of the time. It's never often enough or bad enough to deter me from using them, because they are just so awesome when XI7s are not around. After I started using them for a while, I loved them so much that the slim chance that they will be diminished by XI7s is not a big enough threat to counter the benefits of them otherwise. And, the biggest defensive boost to an Mc30 is your flying. Learn to fly them well, and getting hit even with XI7s will not be that big of a deal. Think about if they don't have XI7s. That means they have to do 15 damage to kill your Mc30. Tack Lando or Admo onto the equation and wow can they take a beating. That is far more valuable to me, basically, thank maybe they'll have something that diminishes it. Try it, you may love it