I feel like there are three things worth talking to. Konstantine and Interdictor being one, Slicer Teams and “new wave” being the others.

I feel that this game is like a CCG/LCG you collect cards and build you fleet on those cards. I have a friend that doesn’t quite get this and often builds lists that have a good idea but doesn’t quite get the list to be workable.

I bring this up because he also fails to see that the game changes, what you learned up to wave 3 no longer applies. Consider each wave a giant meta-snow-globe, at the start you shake it all up and slowly those grains settle and a meta develops.

Nothing that you learned in Wave 1 or 2 applies any more, at least not now. Those little grains of “snow” are now upset and moving again. So, the idea that various cards equate to a failing to command your ship is a wave 2 ethic that no longer applies. In wave 3 you are not failing to plan ahead, you are failing to recognise that you plans will get changed and if the command is important enough you’ll not get to do what you want all the time.

Slicer teams is but a small part of this, but it is quite an important part. Here we will find that the metagame will be the thing that drives it forwards or not. If people play the counters then there is a chance that Slicer Teams will not get used further and the counter cards will fade from the meta or because of the constant risk of seeing them players will take the counters.

I also think there is a strategic counter that will just see ships that can use any 4 commands be taken such that the Slicer Teams effect is diminished a little. Time will be the judge. My prediction would be that they slowly get used less and we’ll see them about as often as a Wave 2 Tractor Beam.

I also think that if you can, take the easy kill and reduce your opponents activation count as much as get a small number of VP.

Kontantine and Interdictor: I am torn here, played it last weekend and my opponent played 2 MC80’s plus Ackbar and Squadrons. Having blocked the Conga Line with the Interdictor + G-8 my opponent was going to just ram himself repeatedly. While he was frustrated at the time I am not too sure that this was anything more than the surprise of something unexpected.

That said there are a few soft and hard counters that can be used, it’s like playing 15 TIE Fighters for the first time, you just get hit by the unexpected and play it badly.

Some ideas, apart from a card based solution, you have a change of tactics. Interdictor is Speed 2 and only marginally better at turning than a VSD, there should be a variety of ways for a fleet to set up off to a flank and back foot the Imperial team.

Take a fleet that just goes head on, Nebs and Star Cruises, then just fly straight in. Red dice on ships that don’t need to change course too much will hurt.

Can I has your stuffs?

Conversely that gives 36% of obstructed deployment.

That percentage matches up with my ballpark.

Hooray for complicated maths!

Amanal you hit right on it. In my game with HERO, I had to watch what commands I gave his ships, early on was easy to give Engineering but mid game when he was hurt, I no longer could do so. Then I had to either give squadrons which would give him 3 extra dice in separate attacks before he attacked me OR I gave him 1 more die, I chose the 1 more die. You can get yourself into that trap easily enough that way. You can also trip your opponent up by not having a squadron command and using something like Leia to give it to you.

In reply to the multitudes of people asking to have my stuff, no. I'm a collector of games, or more accurately rules. I deeply enjoy analyzing game designs on all levels and complexities and comparing them to eachother and trying to dissect the thought process behind their creation. Noting how some parts of a game are made to make players make decisions, notice trends, plan ahead, be surprised, feel an emotion, adapt, and ultimately enjoy their time is a fascinating exercise for me. When I sit down to watch a game of anything, I watch the players probably more than the game. Is this a tough move to choose for the player? How will the player respond to this move? Are they able to enjoy eachother company? Can this guy think of a play to turn the tide? How excited are they to take their turn? How do these players treat precision in the game? Is communication of game effects fluid? Full of slang? Logically ordered? It's a hobby. To that end when I find games these have alot of good, or sometimes alot of bad, mechanics I stash them in my collection. I dabble in my own designs and often dip into my collection to find inspiration or borrow tools. So no, you can't have my stuff, Armada will stay on my shelf. I like to think in my retirement I'll write a book on the subject.

I think you just was unlucky and unprepared for the new rules and ships that have come to armada. But I think admiral Akbar did not give up just because he saw he was entering a trap. The rebels may loose a battle but so can the empire. Sometimes we just make a list that is so bad against our opponent ship list. But then it is just to try and save the day and use all your experience as a admiral.

Maybe after the end of the battle still be able to ride the pony around the table as Cubanboy have tough us :-)

For me the game is starting to be more interesting so I have sold my X-wing collection to buy more heavy into armada. I feel both sides are equal and live to play both.

There is a lot of options on both sides. And you may make a list that play just right into your opponents hand. But then again can he. In the end it is up to your skill as a admiral to save the day. And this is all what the game is about. You never know what you will be facing in battle....

I think you will do better in your next battle, a crushing defeat is the best way to learn of your mistakes. Keep on trying an you will se how awesome game this is :-)

Engine Techs, Madine, Ozzel.

Enough said

Slicer Tools, Tractor Beams, Konstantine

Nav Dials, Nav Tokens, Speed Control

Right back at you.

But one thing jumped out at me about slicer tools, and as someone mentioned earlier immersion, and I'm huge on that point, I want to talk about it.

Why does slicer effect the top dial?

Why does it do that only at a certain range?

If it can, why can't I use it on friendly ships to fix their top dials?

Think about this. The slicers are able to rapidly hack your system, and alter the out come of three turns, whatever amount of time that comes up to, of crew activity. How does that work exactly? I mean for that matter how does comm nose work. I drop that on dudes all the time with Dodona search. But seriously, I can't figure that one. Shouldn't it affect the bottom dial that I set the turn I got sliced? I know that that would be almost irrelevant though so there's that. Just not sure here what the concept is.

Real and sad answer: Game balance

Fluffy explanation: The changing of the dial represents the altering of orders, creating havoc or relaying misinformation. The effect is not so much that you give out specific orders but that you create a situation in which the real orders dont come to bear. Thats why you cant do it on friendly ship, you are a bit playing the random machine on the opponent. Your slicer found a strange demand for more bombs to the hangar for tomorrow? Lets make it top priority and assign more personel on it while pushing that priority demand for a repair crew to the Ax14 generator down: Sqaudron command instead of eng. command. On one of you ships you would just crate havok on it, just like you want it for the opponent.

Why a range? Did you try to reach your Wifi from work? Did you try to hack you neighbors wifi form work?

Why only the top dial? Perhaps because the hackers need a certain degree of orders to work with. The vocal demand for more engine power that finally leads to a nac token in three turns is nothing the hacker can handle, while later when someone put it in and tries to shift engine power and personal on a electorinic base in the engine room is something for that mean little fingers of the hackers.

In reply to the multitudes of people asking to have my stuff, no. I'm a collector of games, or more accurately rules. I deeply enjoy analyzing game designs on all levels and complexities and comparing them to eachother and trying to dissect the thought process behind their creation. Noting how some parts of a game are made to make players make decisions, notice trends, plan ahead, be surprised, feel an emotion, adapt, and ultimately enjoy their time is a fascinating exercise for me. When I sit down to watch a game of anything, I watch the players probably more than the game. Is this a tough move to choose for the player? How will the player respond to this move? Are they able to enjoy eachother company? Can this guy think of a play to turn the tide? How excited are they to take their turn? How do these players treat precision in the game? Is communication of game effects fluid? Full of slang? Logically ordered? It's a hobby. To that end when I find games these have alot of good, or sometimes alot of bad, mechanics I stash them in my collection. I dabble in my own designs and often dip into my collection to find inspiration or borrow tools. So no, you can't have my stuff, Armada will stay on my shelf. I like to think in my retirement I'll write a book on the subject.

I dont want to be rude, but thats sounds a bit strange, when all we hear is a complaint from a single strange game session. That sounds nothing analyzing at all.

While reviewing the game in my head I keep trying different scenarios and running then through, but a vast majority of the time I see how he could have maneuvered to stop have the edge, especially while ignoring Obstacles.

I hate to insist, but you still haven't addressed this. Why did he ignore obstacles, if he was the first player?

I mean, think of it:

Your opponent gets to go first and gets the second player's advantage of ignoring obstacles... on a ridiculously overcrowded map (twice the obstacles, 25% more ships) and with a snyergistic fleet to boot. What did you think was going to happen?

Even if you hadn't compounded the issue by flying straight into his trap, the odds were massively stacked against you due to poor scenario balancing and house rules.

I get that you don't like the "blue control" thing, it can be frustrating. But this battle was going to be frustrating for you no matter what.

Turning this interesting discussion into a question of my own (based on the fact that I faced an Interdictor fleet for the first time on Monday) would people say that the presence of a decked out Interdictor on the board should make it the primary target? In my post-game mental analysis, alongside lots of other mistakes made, I came to the conclusion that first and foremost attacking his VSDs was probably not the best approach.

Turning this interesting discussion into a question of my own (based on the fact that I faced an Interdictor fleet for the first time on Monday) would people say that the presence of a decked out Interdictor on the board should make it the primary target? In my post-game mental analysis, alongside lots of other mistakes made, I came to the conclusion that first and foremost attacking his VSDs was probably not the best approach.

You need to play more MMORPGs.

KILL THE HEALER FIRST

One of the number 1 rules. That said the healer is normally squishy.

Similar logic as killing the admiral first if they are on a weak ship.

In reply to the multitudes of people asking to have my stuff, no. I'm a collector of games, or more accurately rules. I deeply enjoy analyzing game designs on all levels and complexities and comparing them to eachother and trying to dissect the thought process behind their creation. Noting how some parts of a game are made to make players make decisions, notice trends, plan ahead, be surprised, feel an emotion, adapt, and ultimately enjoy their time is a fascinating exercise for me. When I sit down to watch a game of anything, I watch the players probably more than the game. Is this a tough move to choose for the player? How will the player respond to this move? Are they able to enjoy eachother company? Can this guy think of a play to turn the tide? How excited are they to take their turn? How do these players treat precision in the game? Is communication of game effects fluid? Full of slang? Logically ordered? It's a hobby. To that end when I find games these have alot of good, or sometimes alot of bad, mechanics I stash them in my collection. I dabble in my own designs and often dip into my collection to find inspiration or borrow tools. So no, you can't have my stuff, Armada will stay on my shelf. I like to think in my retirement I'll write a book on the subject.

I didn't ask for your rulebook or your access to after battle reports, just your ships

@diabloazul. We've been over this several times if you scroll back through the thread. He had initiative, passed it to me, objective was preset. I went first. He has free obstacle movement.

@djscipio. Yes all that would be obvious from the intent of the design, but none of that when thought of in immersion is actually relayed to the imagination, I'm still asking questions like how is it I can't hack my own ships to change their top dials, when I can do so to an enemy computer that's trying to stop me? An interesting tweak, maybe not perfect, to the design would be this: at range X, select an enemy ship and look at their top dial, (you are in their computers after all, and just the knowledge is a good gain) you may have your opponent select a new command on that dial. Chaos caused would lose me the benefit I was trying for which would still be catastrophic on occasion, but the crew would have been working on something else out the commander might have a contingency protocol. This design would give the using player an advantage that is set that they always can get return or of their investment which is game knowledge of looking at the dial. Then it gives them a decision to alter it or stick them with a potential bad plan they had anyway, which gives the opponent a decision to what his second choice would be, but he would benefit from having in game time to try to counter play it by being prepared for such an event. That hits way more major design points than the actual version in my opinion.

Understand though that I chose my words very carefully. It's time for me to think about leaving is not the same as 'I'm out yo'. If this is the direction FFG wants to take the design of the game, then I'm probably done. Which is sad for me but oh well. What intrigues me though is who the designer of these mechanics was. looking at the design credits Davy was involved in this waves design, and from my experience with the design of X-wing expansion content, I'm wondering if his common link to both is indicative of the source of the designs I dislike in both games. I'd be curious what components are his brain child and what are his co-designers. I'm trying to recall from his interviews what he has said he designed specially, and also trying remember if he ever talked about his magic experience. I seem to recall he has fairly deeply talked about it as it pertains to his design approach but I don't recall when or where. Looking through the credits it seems that he worked on developing wave two but it's design was Kniffens, who also designed the core game with Peterson. Kniffens worked development on this wave though so I don't know. Kniffens was also involved in alot of designs I really liked for X-wing. I'll have to research the credits for both games more. I could potentially just scan the credits in the future and avoid games with his name on the design line. In the mean time I look forward to the next expansion by Kniffen I geuss.

@diabloazul. We've been over this several times if you scroll back through the thread. He had initiative, passed it to me, objective was preset. I went first. He has free obstacle movement.

Fair enough, I missed that. My apologies.

No biggie. Easy confusion on that.

Additional obstacles for the second player playing a control fleet for dangerous territories will emphasize the control feeling. More obstacles meant more points in the trap forcing you to go there. Normal obstacle count would mean a smaller point incentive meaning less control. More obstacles also means more landmines reducing options around flying also multiplying the control effect.

If I had to design a scenario to benefit a control player I'd be hard pressed to find something better. You basically won being only 75 points down.

Well that's comforting in a way. But honestly I managed the obstacles really well I felt. In the whole game I only hit two debris fields and one asteroid. Of that damage only one really mattered. The first debris field I knew was going to hit so that was in the command stack for turn two to repair, so still went into combat with no damage, the second one was one of my two major mistakes. I assigned the damage like an idiot and then lost my ship because of it the following activation. That was the AF2. And then turn five the corvette hit a rock. What was the bigger problem was him not caring about them, it allowed him to concentrate his fire and deny me Dodona triggers. Though it did basically obstruct every single attack he made and shut off his AA guns.

You stacked the obstacles onto one side of the board Force. This allowed your opponent to bunch his fleet for maximum effect AND bunch your fleet in deployment. It was not a great idea I am sorry to say.

Id recommend playing a few regular games with the standard rules before making your decision. You can't decide things like this based off a jury rigged, home brew scenario.

I partly wanted them there. Like I said, it shut of his AA. I got the station in the center of the mess so I had a safe zone, and I maneuvered to take full advantage of the situation.

I partly wanted them there. Like I said, it shut of his AA. I got the station in the center of the mess so I had a safe zone, and I maneuvered to take full advantage of the situation.

Sure and in a wave 2 game that would of been enough. We now play a game with 4 waves and almost a year and a half old. Tactics of old will not work the same anymore

It's not just about avoiding obstacles. It sounds like you flew really well. It's also about those extra obstacles removing choices (or penalizing certain choices). This would add to the control magic feeling and magnify his feeling of control over your movement.

Way to go FFG, you have failed me again. We'll see what comes in the next couple weeks.

/Rant

It's not just about avoiding obstacles. It sounds like you flew really well. It's also about those extra obstacles removing choices (or penalizing certain choices). This would add to the control magic feeling and magnify his feeling of control over your movement.

It's not just about avoiding obstacles. It sounds like you flew really well. It's also about those extra obstacles removing choices (or penalizing certain choices). This would add to the control magic feeling and magnify his feeling of control over your movement.

He flew against kosantine right into the effect. It is like the time I faced Naboobo2000 at regionals. I flew my force right into his Gladiator line and got destroyed for it. I played Naboobo2000's game not my own and lost for it.