This entire thread reminds me how it feels to be a blue player in EDH

Let's hope FFG has some good long-term plans for the game that will keep fun and balance.

You only need to look forward to Wave 5 to see that.

The Interdictor is the harbinger of the Experimental Retrofit.

The Pelta will be the harbinger of the Fleet Command.

I feel it will be some time until the Rebellion gets an Experimental Retrofit slot, and the Empire gets a Fleet Command Slot...

But I feel the two of them will play around each other until the Mirror Ships come out.

This entire thread reminds me how it feels to be a blue player in EDH

You're a monster! D:

This entire thread reminds me how it feels to be a blue player in EDH

You're a monster! D:

I made a Kira deck with no counterspells and 30 creatures and people still got salty.

I can empathize with the frustration of the OP.

What I generally expect of a tactical fleet game is that I control my fleet and you control yours - and may the one with the fewest mistakes and most clever maneuvers win (plus a little dice luck for good measure).

Instead, you end up with your opponent taking your dials, changing your speed, etc. It's a violation of the initial expectation.

This is one of the things that killed Star Trek: Attack Wing - cards that let you either control an opponents movement or remove cards from their build. And at that point it feels more like your opponent is playing solitaire with your fleet than a 2-person game of tactical skill.

I'm not going to quit any time soon because I'm having fun with all of this. But I think the OP's point is valid. There are an increasing number of cards that steal agency away from an opponent. This can be a slippery slope to a 40k-like situation where you know the winner of a game as soon as you see both lists.

Let's hope FFG has some good long-term plans for the game that will keep fun and balance.

Yet here there are so many counters...and so many builds that invalidate such a control setup.

Just taking Ozzel makes you more or less immune to all these shenanigans. Tarkin too. And to an extent, Garm. Comms Net too helps a bunch. And what about the new Salvage Run objective?

Slicers are easily countered by Leia, Liaisons and the other "command" officers, or just SFOs. Plus they go only on flotillas.

This entire thread reminds me how it feels to be a blue player in EDH

HATE YOU ALL! Gods I hate that BS SHENANIGANS!

that reminds of the Blue White deck I made for EDH. I played an island....guy got pissed.

that reminds of the Blue White deck I made for EDH. I played an island....guy got pissed.

Just saying, some people are just the type of people that will scoop when they see an island (this actually happened, but it was a Tundra).

So the moral of the story is: Don't be the guy that scoops when they see the Tundra.

This entire thread reminds me how it feels to be a blue player in EDH

You're a monster! D:

I made a Kira deck with no counterspells and 30 creatures and people still got salty.

I made a Jalira polymorph shenanigans EDH deck, and it's mono blue. People kill me just for playing islands, because everyone assumes I'm going to combo win.

Or is it, "Don't scoop to the Interdictor."?

This entire thread reminds me how it feels to be a blue player in EDH

You're a monster! D:

I made a Kira deck with no counterspells and 30 creatures and people still got salty.

I made a Jalira polymorph shenanigans EDH deck, and it's mono blue. People kill me just for playing islands, because everyone assumes I'm going to combo win.

Well, I think somewhere in here with us talking about Blue/EDH, this is exactly the problem that some players will experience.

AWings brought this up before, in that this subject we're talking about is not a matter of whether one player is pissed because he lost a game, but because it's a negative player experience. He is not having fun because the game mechanics inhibits his ability to play the game the way he wants. Blue, in MTG, does the same thing. It's about control, permission, denial and stagger.

Some players, regardless of their ability to fight/prepare against the mechanic, will and can still hate the mechanic. This is perfectly fine, and something that more people in this thread needs to understand and accept.

Do I like the fact that little tiny floatillas can block a ISD-II? No, it completely breaks my immersion, but I choose to see it as a lesser priority compared to everything else that I enjoy. I think this is my biggest piece of advice from this talking subject: Find the right players with similar mindsets, and play the games that everyone enjoys. Your fun is more important for the hobby than finding out "the best counter".

Seems like there were way too many obstacles for starters. Shouldn't it only be 6?

Seems like there were way too many obstacles for starters. Shouldn't it only be 6?

It was part of the custom scenario

To give you all hope.

My Ackbar MC30s toyed with PTs Konstantine Interdictor fleet. It wasnt a fair fight. That will change I suspect, but initally MC30s are well set up for making attacking runs from outside the control range.

Can confirm, the MC30 is just fine. See my comments in the First Impressions thread.

You just need a little more patience, a little more discipline, and a little more finesse if you're facing the Interdictor. You also need to manage your expectations: if you know you're going to get double target-scrambled, plan for the extra attacks you'll need to overwhelm the TS and take down your target. If you know you're going to get tractor beamed, vault into a spot you don't mind hanging out in for a turn or two, or keep a nav token and command queued up. They've necessarily weakened their offensive position in exchange for that strong defense: take advantage of it!

I love charging in my MC30's for last/first double arc shenanigans as much as the next guy does, but that's not always going to be the right answer anymore. Which is good, because it was already getting frankly kind of boring.

This entire thread reminds me how it feels to be a blue player in EDH

You're a monster! D:

I made a Kira deck with no counterspells and 30 creatures and people still got salty.

I made a Jalira polymorph shenanigans EDH deck, and it's mono blue. People kill me just for playing islands, because everyone assumes I'm going to combo win.

Well, I think somewhere in here with us talking about Blue/EDH, this is exactly the problem that some players will experience.

AWings brought this up before, in that this subject we're talking about is not a matter of whether one player is pissed because he lost a game, but because it's a negative player experience. He is not having fun because the game mechanics inhibits his ability to play the game the way he wants. Blue, in MTG, does the same thing. It's about control, permission, denial and stagger.

Some players, regardless of their ability to fight/prepare against the mechanic, will and can still hate the mechanic. This is perfectly fine, and something that more people in this thread needs to understand and accept.

Do I like the fact that little tiny floatillas can block a ISD-II? No, it completely breaks my immersion, but I choose to see it as a lesser priority compared to everything else that I enjoy. I think this is my biggest piece of advice from this talking subject: Find the right players with similar mindsets, and play the games that everyone enjoys. Your fun is more important for the hobby than finding out "the best counter".

Well said. If the "not fun" aspects overtake the "fun," who am I to tell someone they shouldn't leave.

I played Warhammer Fantasy and had a Wood Elf list that I knew I would get bad game votes for even though every other list I took I would get good game votes. I am friendly in game, etc., so I knew it was about the list mechanics.

Oddly, the list wasn't over powered. Wood elves were awful, but I play a shoot 'n scoot list that denied other players the ability to get into combat with me. They didn't like games where they couldn't run their big block into someone else's big block.

It was a blast for me to play though because every move I made held so much importance.

Hate to get back on topic, but for me the Funniest thing about the inclusion of the Interdictor in this wave is what it's done to how I wanted to use the Liberty.

As a mainly rebel player I've been waiting for the appropriate spear head so I could pull off the Ackbar slash with Home One (you get tired of running a kiting conga line). Set up the usual conga line led by the Liberty, then at the opportune moment turn into your enemy and split their ranks, slamming them with broadsides from Home One as well as a trailer ship (probably a shrimp or guppy).

Now? With the Interdictor's Grav Well projector set up for that has become a pain, then if you manage to deliver on it, target scramblers will likely ruin the whole thing.

Oh well. Still won't stop me from giving it a go if I see an opening.

Your feelings around lack of control may have more to do with your expectations. While the interdictor introduces speed control, it does not introduce targeting or turn control (outside of going to zero speed).

I've always played not expecting to need my command dial. Therefor I'm rarely upset when I miss a command. This includes squadron play. I've never liked the mentality that even base fighters REQUIRE full squadron commands every turn. I find it far better to play more squadrons than likely commands expecting that only on rare occasions do I have more squadrons that need/want commands than available commands. (Yavaris excepted to this, there are never enough Yavaris activations). I'm thrilled for FCTs as they really help this play style. Move those landmines into position and let them fire away. Shifting as needed. You want to park my Yavaris? Okay, I'll let it blast away. I just know that to run it I either sacrifice it for that damage or bring something to hand out the nav tokens to keep the defense tokens usable. With other ship types I expect to simply spam navigate commands. You want to slicer my navigate away, I'm cool with that. You've stopped me but I have added functionality elsewhere. If I'm really worried I run large base ships. Kons can still slow it down but not by much if I'm spamming navigate.

Yes I miss the engineering if I'm always navigating but I should have superior hull and damage dealing since they had to spend a LOT of points on non damage non hull places. I like the interdictor and it should do fine. But feelings of blue control impotence is imagined. You're being slowed not stopped. If you're in a position that slicer wrecks you your plan wasn't very good.

As a Physical Demonstration:

This Token is placed so it WILL effect the small ship placed in the very corner (by touching its flank shield dial)... Which is about as far across as you can go.

The area of the deployment zone on my screen, proportionally, effected by The Grav Token is ~17487 pixels.

The area of the deployment zone NOT effected by the Grav Token is ~32799 pixels.

his includes an inherant bias towards the Grav Token, by counting the "Dead Area" between the Right Most edge of the Grav Zone and the Edge of Deployment, where you MAY be able to put a small ship, AS a Grav Shift Token Zone.... because its at the back of the deployment zone.

Its hardly a precise measure, and I didn't exactly feel like breaking out the mathematical equations to maximise the angle... But for a "here's how to apply it in a real-world measure sense", there it is... You're roughly likely to count just over 1/3rd of a deployment Zone in your Effect bubble... Maybe a little more... Perhaps as much as 40% if you're REALLY precise on it...

This got me interested so let's spit some math!

I measured to the neares 1/8th inch, and:

Distance 1-3=7 3/8" (radius)

Token = 3/4" (diameter)

Small base ship width with 1/8 overlap = 1 5/8" (bias)

Deployment length =48"

Side A will be the short side, side B will be the long side of the deployment area.

So if I set the token in a place where it will have a 1/8" overlap on a small ship to side A, then measure a distance of 3, place the token the unaffected area of side B is:

48 - (3/4 + 1 5/8 + (2(7 3/8)) = 30 7/8" to deploy free of grav well or 64% of the length. Conversely that gives 36% of obstructed deployment. This of course is a single dimension analysis which could be repeated for area. But that would give a similar answer, probably a bit less.

Back to the point, you have almost 31" of usable table length, which may not be optimal, but definitely can be played around.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. So many of you get what I'm saying and are phrasing this issue better than I can.

While reviewing the game in my head I keep trying different scenarios and running then through, but a vast majority of the time I see how he could have maneuvered to stop have the edge, especially while ignoring Obstacles. My biggest problem is in 500 points he had a wall of three ships to trigger his admiral, and still have a fighter group. That's what he really got for the extra points. Without the fighter screen or one of the Vic's, my usual 400 list would probably of had it.

But one thing jumped out at me about slicer tools, and as someone mentioned earlier immersion, and I'm huge on that point, I want to talk about it.

Why does slicer effect the top dial?

Why does it do that only at a certain range?

If it can, why can't I use it on friendly ships to fix their top dials?

Think about this. The slicers are able to rapidly hack your system, and alter the out come of three turns, whatever amount of time that comes up to, of crew activity. How does that work exactly? I mean for that matter how does comm nose work. I drop that on dudes all the time with Dodona search. But seriously, I can't figure that one. Shouldn't it affect the bottom dial that I set the turn I got sliced? I know that that would be almost irrelevant though so there's that. Just not sure here what the concept is.

Engine Techs, Madine, Ozzel.

Enough said

To be fair ForceSensitive your opponent did place one of those medium ships off to your far right and to trigger Konstatine, he needs 2 in range. You deployed right into his trap and even placed the obstacles to do so. If you had split up the obstacles across the whole board you would of been able to split him up or even force him to huddle on one side so you can use your superior red dice.

if slicer tool counters you hard because you need these squadron activations, why not take weapons liaison and some tokens on the side?? Cheap to do and counters slicer tool nicely

if slicer tool counters you hard because you need these squadron activations, why not take weapons liaison and some tokens on the side?? Cheap to do and counters slicer tool nicely