So when you move the obstacles with Grav Shift Reroute, do the tokens remain where they are on the table, or do they move with the obstacles? This isn't one I would expect to see too often, given that Dangerous Territory is pretty unpopular, but it has me wondering. I could see a solid argument for either side.

As written, I think they don't move with the obstacles.

As intended, they plainly do, otherwise every moved obstacle would by definition be unobtainable.

Exactly. The classic RAW vs. RAI abyss.

They move along.

You put the tokens on the obstacles.

Then you move the obstacles.

Doesn't say to move the tokens off the obstacles and keep them rooted to the spot.

They move along.

You put the tokens on the obstacles.

Then you move the obstacles.

Doesn't say to move the tokens off the obstacles and keep them rooted to the spot.

No, but it does say the obstacle can't overlap tokens in its final position. It also doesn't say anything about moving tokens along with the obstacles.

I agree with the above. It really doesn't say, but Ithink there's only one reasonable (and practical) interpretation.

GSR does raise another oddity: it specifies that moved obstacles cannot overlap ships, tokens or obstacles. So it can overlap squadrons - how does that work? Presumably, in practice the RAI is that the squadron overlaps the obstacle. But that's not what it says.

Come on, I'm sure you, of all people, could provide a picture of that

Clearly, they should have shrunk the already tiny text on that **** card even more to clarify it better...

Clearly, they should have shrunk the already tiny text on that **** card even more to clarify it better...

I don't have wave 3/4, how small is the text?

Clearly, they should have shrunk the already tiny text on that **** card even more to clarify it better...

I don't have wave 3/4, how small is the text?

Regular vs Grav Shift

So, its about half the normal size...

Like I said, it's pretty straightforward to handle. But it does require breaking RAW, which not everyone is comfortable with. They could've bullet-proofed it and added squadrons to the exceptions, or just said "cannot overlap any other component", or something to that effect (cue the purists in: "but the table is a component!").

Just to be clear: who overlaps whom is a pretty big deal in some circumstances. In collisions, for example, being the overlapper is clearly distinct from being the overlapee. Likewise with ships vs squadrons. But in this card they're treated interchangeably, which is a little odd even if required for brevity.

Clearly, they should have shrunk the already tiny text on that **** card even more to clarify it better...

I don't have wave 3/4, how small is the text?

Regular vs Grav Shift

Oh, for some reason I thought that there was a reference card you were talking about. Nevermind.

...... I'm still waiting for the Master of the Leaning Tower of Ships to post a **** picture of a Squadron hiding under an Asteroid Field....

...... I'm still waiting for the Master of the Leaning Tower of Ships to post a **** picture of a Squadron hiding under an Asteroid Field....

I'm out of town right now but give me a day or two

They move along.

You put the tokens on the obstacles.

Then you move the obstacles.

Doesn't say to move the tokens off the obstacles and keep them rooted to the spot.

No, but it does say the obstacle can't overlap tokens in its final position. It also doesn't say anything about moving tokens along with the obstacles.

RAW, in the case of DT, the token in placed on the obstacle. The obstacle not overlaping the token, the token is overlaping the obstacle. No rules are broken.

They move along.

You put the tokens on the obstacles.

Then you move the obstacles.

Doesn't say to move the tokens off the obstacles and keep them rooted to the spot.

No, but it does say the obstacle can't overlap tokens in its final position. It also doesn't say anything about moving tokens along with the obstacles.

RAW, in the case of DT, the token in placed on the obstacle. The obstacle not overlaping the token, the token is overlaping the obstacle. No rules are broken.

Although I agree, my point above is that this becomes a little muddled by the squadron case. Though that's a very minor issue.

I think Ard's point was more to the effect that it is nowhere stated that the token is or remains "attached" to the obstacle. Only that, when it is placed, i.e. at one particular point in time, it is placed on that obstacle. So there's nothing (except common sense?) to indicate that if the obstacle is moved, the token must be moved along with it. We're extrapolating this because the alternative (that the token remains in its original position) is somewhat harder to implement in practice and would interact poorly with some scenario rules.

Although it is not official, in the Interdictor article they state this precise case as an example of what you can do with your Interdictor. In the example case they move the tokens along with the obstacles.

Here is what it says:

Use of the Grav Shift Reroute upgrade can tremendously impact your games played with the Dangerous Territory objective, straight from setup.

After using your grav shift token to draw the obstacles and objective points toward you, you can score them in the first round by charging full speed ahead with your Interdictor and a ship like the Imperial Raider.

Your first few words, however, is entirely the point...

Its not official.

I'd LOVE to be able to trust those enough - but we've seen enough errors, even in Armada, to make judgements upon it, let alone the rules breaks in X-Wing.......

Personally, I rule it as intent.. But that ruling only goes as far as the league I run, and I can't argue it on the specific Rules Forums, as it is, as you said, not official as rules.

Come on, I'm sure you, of all people, could provide a picture of that

Hate you sometimes. . .

Although the articles are not always accurate...and although this is the rules subforum...it gets mighty pedantic at times.

Personally, I would lean toward moving the objectives with the obstacles. But I was wondering what others were thinking. I don't have a solid argument as to why, other than it's in the spirit of the mission.

Yeah, I don't think you'll find anybody who disagrees with you that that's how it's supposed to work.

They better rule that the Dangerous Territory token moves with the obstacle, or the Grav Shift is even less useful than it is now, and it's not that much movement. Unless your opponent makes a big placement mistake you will only be able to a couple of obstacles and only 2 distance. and that distance is WITHIN, so they don't move far.

Lets ask the other way around. What "would" happen when the token on the obstacles is not moved with it?

You can not collect the objective token. Because to get the objective token you have to overlab the obstacle and you get the token on this obstacle. You can not collect tokens that are lying around without an obstacle.

So you could deny the opponent all the tokens in range of the GSR, he just cannot collect them.

But as it was already said. The token is on the obstacle. So if you move the obstacle with the GSR you are not overlapping it. And GSR say move, not pick it up and place it again.

So i really don't see what should there any change or fix in the rules. It is perfect clear.