On the most recent episode of the 186th podcast, Alex Davy talks a lot about scouts, guidance chips and deadeye. After listening, I really think there is a good chance they might make Guidance Chips small ship only. If that happens, scouts will still be decent but the alpha will be less reliable and it would allow Rebel jousters to come back out from hiding.

gamma vets new meta

but no, that won't bring rebel jousters out of hiding

see the problem with rebel jousters (mostly the X and the naked B) just kinda suck (Though the B is FAR and away superior because yay barrel-roll!). They have unreliable attacks and defense and are hilariously predictable. Crackswarm and dengaroo will devour them while palp aces laugh at their futile attacks to either catch them in arc or try to force minimal mods through all that defensive tech

what'll most likely happen is either we get Gamma Vets new meta (not really, but they're really not bad ships. Very solid!) or TLTs again

maybe more ghosts, now that I think about it. The VCX is a really solidly built ship with a very powerful combination of 4-red offense, FCS and auto-blaster turret (+hera crew!) that really only rarely sees play because torp scouts murder it

or because it's really ******* irritating to try flying two of them on the same table space (dang things are huge!)

for torp scouts to adapt, you'd be trading OcR4 for k4 at a +1 markup (-1 for OcR4 and -1 for deadeye). You get the same mods, but the need for TLs make it a lot harder to just hang back at range and let the opponent fly into your arcs

which I'd actually approve of, because that just encourages more feedback arrays!

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Scum%20and%20Villainy&d=v4!s!174:140,136,126,122,-1,112:-1:25:;174:140,136,126,122,-1,112:-1:25:;126:135,178,-1:-1:-1:&sn=in%20case%20of%20deadeye%20nerf%20break%20glass

Attack Jumpmaster with Plasma Torpedoes or Squad of Z-95 and Jumpmadter will die instantlly.

Yes, Jumpmaster is a pain. But remember: "To defeat a enemy you need know them" like general Thrawn said.

Try to make Jumpmaster land on asteroids by bumping on your ship. Avoid its firing arc. Use stress so you know which green maneuvers jumpmaster must take. Ionize them. Swarm them with range 1. There's tons of waves to defeat Jumpmaster. They have a lot of hulls ans shields. But you have a brain and cleverness in you. Jumpmadter are easy if you trust yourself.

No I dont think it would do much other than get rid of Extra muntions....so on the 3 scout list it'll help a bit. but not against Dengaroo.

The dial being better than many small ships, and it aving a primary weapon turret is what is the big issue.

The PS3 scout should never have had an EPT. I think that's the biggest flaw.

Furthermore, I think the dial is too capable and didn't meet the goal of having an properly balanced asymmetric dial. There's not enough consequence to using the "inefficient" direction. Every right bank and turn should have been red, with maybe an exception of the 1 speed bank. I'd give it red left T-rolls and S-loops, but remove any left versions.

Yes.

But why would you double-nerf something? Is there a new upgarde called Black Market Nerfing Tools coming out?

That's a counter against Soontir and Dengaroo, not Scouts.

And I find it funny that with the release of black market slicing tools, there are still people complaining about how Soontir, PTL, AT, SD is massively OP. If I'm flying Soontir, there's no way I'm going NEAR a ship with BLST. A 50% chance to take away 1/3rd of his HP is nothing to sneeze at.

It's basically worth 50% of 11 2/3 points each turn. Way better than Palpatine if you ask our favorite Goomba. Though as scouts take stress easily as well, it might be worth to use it against them too, at least on cheap ships which don't mind to use that action for half a point of damage per turn extra instead of dice mods. ;-)

They're fine, LTP. Now that that's out of the way. ... it's nice that ordinance is a meta list finally, and scum has a non-brobots competitive list. Once wave 9 hits and we have more tools to beat Dengaroo, I don't really see triple scouts being an issue. They kinda get put in the quad TLT category of being a pain,but able to be dealt with.

So if we're going to talk about our fantasy worlds where our impossible rebalancing demands are met via the adjustment and reprinting of old cards, we have much bigger fish to fry than this.

The PS3 scout should never have had an EPT. I think that's the biggest flaw.

Better remove both torp slots.

And nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to make sure.

FFG will never change a card's numbers, icons, etc etc. Timing yes, whats printed on the card? no

Limited Tacticians?

Removing one missile slot wouldn't have nerfed Fat Han.

Completely agree. A PS3 pilot being "Elite" is just asinine, from a lore perspective.

Green Squadron Pilot says hi.

How come most ppl weren't bothered by the lore aspect of PS3 (or 4 if we consider Black Squadron Pilots) ships with EPT before Jumpmasters ?

Completely agree. A PS3 pilot being "Elite" is just asinine, from a lore perspective.

Green Squadron Pilot says hi.

How come most ppl weren't bothered by the lore aspect of PS3 (or 4 if we consider Black Squadron Pilots) ships with EPT before Jumpmasters ?

Blacks have 3 hp's,in arc only, cost 14

Jumpmaster's have 9 hp's,and a pwt, cost 25

That's why, as others have said several times mechanics>lore, this is a prime example. The generic jumpmaster is laughably undercosted or over equiped. Like it or not in comparison it's fact.

Edit: This isn't taking upgrades into account but the real slap in the face is the dials, they are not identical but between the 3 are pretty equal. A fast interceptor, a light manueverable dog fighter, and a moon freighter should not move equally.

Completely agree. A PS3 pilot being "Elite" is just asinine, from a lore perspective.

Green Squadron Pilot says hi.

How come most ppl weren't bothered by the lore aspect of PS3 (or 4 if we consider Black Squadron Pilots) ships with EPT before Jumpmasters ?

Green squadron has 4 hp's,in arc only, cost 19

Blacks have 3 hp's,in arc only, cost 14

Jumpmaster's have 9 hp's,and a pwt, cost 25

That's why, as others have said several times mechanics>lore, this is a prime example. The generic jumpmaster is laughably undercosted or over equiped. Like it or not in comparison it's fact.

Edit: This isn't taking upgrades into account but the real slap in the face is the dials, they are not identical but between the 3 are pretty equal. A fast interceptor, a light manueverable dog fighter, and a moon freighter should not move equally.

My point had nothing to do with JM mechanics(which can and have been debated endlessly without reaching a consensus).

My point was that 'a ps 3 ship should not have EPT because it's not elite' is a complaint I've often seen against Jumpmasters, but never agains any other low PS ship with EPT, even if the fluff argument works 100% the same for both.

Some people having a difficult time with a simple question, I see.

the title is a question

the OP is a demand

anyway, idk about balance but you will basically force them to blow all their torps on Biggs and possibly get screwed in any matchup involving him

Isn't that the price of taking 3 one trick ponies?

Their problem is that they are PS3 and have an EPT and two torpedo slots and the most wonderful combination of Scum upgrade slots imaginable to go with them and cost little enough that you can buy up dream combos in under 34 points.

Would removing the second torp slot have been enough? Well, yes. So would erasing their EPT. Or raising their price by 2 points (Albeit at removing anything but torp scouts from viability). Or heck, even dropping them by 1 PS would be a significant nerf, as it would have left them unable to 'shoot first' against virtually every non-large generic in the game... and when alpha strikes are about deleting ships, that's a pretty important difference. As they stand, though? R4 has been nerfed. Alex Davy seems to talk like he wishes they'd spotted the combo in testing, so they may look to break it a little further yet.

Why do I suspect this? Because the combo is so good it means you can't balance any of the other ordinance carriers properly, and even in their current state, their ability to simply delete ships leaves even the viable Rebel jousters & regen ships whimpering, let alone the Xs & Bs. Yes, Biggs & Wes are a thing right now. But that's precisely because their pilot abilities are two of the games strongest counters to Uboats to begin with.

Funny ol' world, isn't it?

Would removing the second torp slot have been enough?

Enough to make them not worth taking in a competitive environment? That's the goal?

I feel a little misquoted there, y'know.

Enough to shift their favored build away from being meta shaping, is the key.

If I had to choose, I'd have felt better if they were PS 2. Then a large number of generics would at least have managed simultaneous fire with the things - and leaving them vulnerable to being out-aplha'd at their own game.

I feel a little misquoted there, y'know.

Enough to shift their favored build away from being meta shaping, is the key.

If I had to choose, I'd have felt better if they were PS 2. Then a large number of generics would at least have managed simultaneous fire with the things - and leaving them vulnerable to being out-aplha'd at their own game.

Sorry, was not my intention. I merely wanted to highlight the part in your post that was relevant to my reply.

My issue with most proposed JM nerfs is that nobody seems interested to discuss whether the ship would still be competituvely viable or not after their proposed nerf.

Their problem is that they are PS3 and have an EPT and two torpedo slots and the most wonderful combination of Scum upgrade slots imaginable to go with them and cost little enough that you can buy up dream combos in under 34 points.

Would removing the second torp slot have been enough? Well, yes. So would erasing their EPT. Or raising their price by 2 points (Albeit at removing anything but torp scouts from viability). Or heck, even dropping them by 1 PS would be a significant nerf, as it would have left them unable to 'shoot first' against virtually every non-large generic in the game... and when alpha strikes are about deleting ships, that's a pretty important difference. As they stand, though? R4 has been nerfed. Alex Davy seems to talk like he wishes they'd spotted the combo in testing, so they may look to break it a little further yet.

Why do I suspect this? Because the combo is so good it means you can't balance any of the other ordinance carriers properly, and even in their current state, their ability to simply delete ships leaves even the viable Rebel jousters & regen ships whimpering, let alone the Xs & Bs. Yes, Biggs & Wes are a thing right now. But that's precisely because their pilot abilities are two of the games strongest counters to Uboats to begin with.

Funny ol' world, isn't it?

Deadeye/R4 was their strongest combo, but Scouts are barely weaker now thanks to overclocked (situationally it's even stronger).

Others have mentioned that the EPT is the really bad design decision and i tend to agree. Let it have it's two torp slots, heck even crew+salvaged astro is somewhat OK, but ept+crew+salvaaged astro is a balancing nightmare for every new expansion going forward. With scum crew already being super strong and EPT being generally the best upgrade slot in the game they can never ever add another good salvaged astromech or scouts will be crazy good.

I dont think its going to happen but i would honestly just errata the EPT. It doesnt hurt the named jumpmasters (as other nerfs would) and opens up future design space for scum because it breaks up the above mentioned insane combination of upgrades available on a cheap platform.

Discuss.

No need to nerf contracted scouts. End of dispute.

Green Squadron Pilot says hi.

How come most ppl weren't bothered by the lore aspect of PS3 (or 4 if we consider Black Squadron Pilots) ships with EPT before Jumpmasters?

Their problem is that they are PS3 and have an EPT and two torpedo slots and the most wonderful combination of Scum upgrade slots imaginable to go with them and cost little enough that you can buy up dream combos in under 34 points.

Would removing the second torp slot have been enough? Well, yes. So would erasing their EPT. Or raising their price by 2 points (Albeit at removing anything but torp scouts from viability). Or heck, even dropping them by 1 PS would be a significant nerf, as it would have left them unable to 'shoot first' against virtually every non-large generic in the game... and when alpha strikes are about deleting ships, that's a pretty important difference. As they stand, though? R4 has been nerfed. Alex Davy seems to talk like he wishes they'd spotted the combo in testing, so they may look to break it a little further yet.

Why do I suspect this? Because the combo is so good it means you can't balance any of the other ordinance carriers properly, and even in their current state, their ability to simply delete ships leaves even the viable Rebel jousters & regen ships whimpering, let alone the Xs & Bs. Yes, Biggs & Wes are a thing right now. But that's precisely because their pilot abilities are two of the games strongest counters to Uboats to begin with.

Funny ol' world, isn't it?

Deadeye/R4 was their strongest combo, but Scouts are barely weaker now thanks to overclocked (situationally it's even stronger).

Others have mentioned that the EPT is the really bad design decision and i tend to agree. Let it have it's two torp slots, heck even crew+salvaged astro is somewhat OK, but ept+crew+salvaaged astro is a balancing nightmare for every new expansion going forward. With scum crew already being super strong and EPT being generally the best upgrade slot in the game they can never ever add another good salvaged astromech or scouts will be crazy good.

I dont think its going to happen but i would honestly just errata the EPT. It doesnt hurt the named jumpmasters (as other nerfs would) and opens up future design space for scum because it breaks up the above mentioned insane combination of upgrades available on a cheap platform.

I don't think they will ever errata a card like that. I mean, yes, it's the obvious thing to do, but they are so afraid of the, "ooh, I just bought this ship and just got into the game and wtf, my list is invalid at this store tourney because I didn't read the errrata!" crowd.

You know it's true.

Green Squadron Pilot says hi.

How come most ppl weren't bothered by the lore aspect of PS3 (or 4 if we consider Black Squadron Pilots) ships with EPT before Jumpmasters?

No, I think those are dumb too.

the less uniques on the table, the better

the evener the PS distribution in squads the better

to hell with acewing with one out of five pilots seeing daylight and 9\10 cases being a top-PS dude with autoinclude EPT

I haven't read the whole thread, but in response to the OP - yes, I do think that would be a good move for the game as a whole. In fact, that's the 'fix' I've had in mind for a while now too.

Of all the things wrong with the JM5K, its not the EPT(deadeye) slot, or anything else apart from the ability to load up a list with 6 super accurate torpedoes that makes these so spamtastic.

Take away the second torp slot and I think the JM5K (scout and Manaroo at least) will play more like how the developers intended.

Look at the options for illicit items, the array of fantastic crew member options, it's dial and the barrel roll is great.

Taking away the second torp slot will I think really hurt the 3x Scout list, but the JM5K (scout and Manaroo) will still be an excellent support piece in scum lists.

[Dengar and Tel are ideal P1 ships, and you don't typically see these with multiple torps]

And get another ship that has a not_in_a_lifetime_taken generic.

with everyone running around with 1-2 named pilots with 100% rigid upgrade choices?
no way.