this is one I have found nothing on in the rule/FAQ, and unless I missed it somewhere can't find here.

now this could be just because its easy and I'm not seeing it.

question: does a Non-Standard Critical effects require that hull damage has been done or does it just need an non-canceled Crit symbol

The latter.

RRG, p.4, Critical Effects:

A critical effect, denoted by the “<crit icon>:” header, can resolve if
there is at least one <crit icon> icon in the attack pool.

That's it, there are no further requirements.

You can even trigger the standard critical effect even if no hull damage was dealt. It will just do nothing (note that its wording begins with "if at least one damage card was dealt face up...").

thank you thats what I thought, but a guy where I play said it had to be off a hull hit.

Upgrade cards that have a *Spend* Crit of this colour ability, only require a crit icon of that colour to be triggered.

Thus APT can cause face up damage, even if at the end of the attack, and defender still has shields on all facings.

But XX-9s, will do nothing, unless damage cards are taken.

No, you do not need to cause hull damage to be able to spend your crit icon, you might need to do hull damage to have your crit effect work.

Upgrade cards that have a *Spend* Crit of this colour ability, only require a crit icon of that colour to be triggered.

Thus APT can cause face up damage, even if at the end of the attack, and defender still has shields on all facings.

But XX-9s, will do nothing, unless damage cards are taken.

No, you do not need to cause hull damage to be able to spend your crit icon, you might need to do hull damage to have your crit effect work.

Do we have any Upgrade cards that require you to spend a Critical Symbol in order to trigger their critical effect..?

....

Because I can't think of one.

I mean, I think the rules has a separate section dealing with the, but I figured that was future-proofing as we do not actually have a spend one yet.

Upgrade cards that have a *Spend* Crit of this colour ability, only require a crit icon of that colour to be triggered.

Thus APT can cause face up damage, even if at the end of the attack, and defender still has shields on all facings.

But XX-9s, will do nothing, unless damage cards are taken.

No, you do not need to cause hull damage to be able to spend your crit icon, you might need to do hull damage to have your crit effect work.

Not that I know of.

Do we have any Upgrade cards that require you to spend a Critical Symbol in order to trigger their critical effect..?

....

Because I can't think of one.

I mean, I think the rules has a separate section dealing with the, but I figured that was future-proofing as we do not actually have a spend one yet.

Not that I can think of off the top of my head. There are a couple of upcoming upgrade cards that looks like they might, though. Flechette Ordnance might, and I think there was a squadron that might do that, too.

Not that I can think of off the top of my head. There are a couple of upcoming upgrade cards that looks like they might, though. Flechette Ordnance might, and I think there was a squadron that might do that, too.

Yeah, the Fletchette Torpedos seem to be a candidate - spending a Black Crit to Toggle an Activation Slider...

Like I figured, most probably future proofing.

Sorry just not precise with my wording, I meant spend, as you require it to trigger.

Sorry just not precise with my wording, I meant spend, as you require it to trigger.

And I apologise for seeming pedantic, but as it is the Rules Forum, (and the fact that I get lynched for loose wording ) I still need to clarify for others:

I get your intent, but we have to be very careful with that word, spend, as it is defined as a specific meaning in the rulebook...

To spend something, is to remove it.

This has some serious complications if you consider the Crit/Hit Black Die... Because spending a black Crit to trigger the critical effect would not only remove the crit symbol as counting as Damage, but also the Hit symbol as well... As the whole die is removed.

So having a Crit Symbol to Trigger, and Spending a Crit Symbol to Trigger, are two entirely different things....

Of course, i was in error and it definitely needed correcting.

Sorry just not precise with my wording, I meant spend, as you require it to trigger.

And I apologise for seeming pedantic, but as it is the Rules Forum, (and the fact that I get lynched for loose wording ) I still need to clarify for others:

I get your intent, but we have to be very careful with that word, spend, as it is defined as a specific meaning in the rulebook...

To spend something, is to remove it.

This has some serious complications if you consider the Crit/Hit Black Die... Because spending a black Crit to trigger the critical effect would not only remove the crit symbol as counting as Damage, but also the Hit symbol as well... As the whole die is removed.

So having a Crit Symbol to Trigger, and Spending a Crit Symbol to Trigger, are two entirely different things....

If it were "spend a black crit", I don't think that would be the same as spending the die. Take the "Precision Strike" objective card, which clearly states to spend an entire die with a hit icon (which to me seems to be directed at the black hit / crit face). Or is my exhausted mental state mis-reading this entirely?

"Spend" of a die, or a die face, is very well defined in the rulebook... Normally, it happens only in the Dice Modification Stage, but other timing can be specified (such as at the start of the assign damage step).

This was discussed in the past, when we had a few people on Kuat Drive Yards try to make different dice, some of which had ACC/HIT facings, and ACC/ACC Facings... Unfortunately, unless there is some other rules framework provided - spending a face and spending a dice, removes the die from the pool.

We're being hypothetical, here, but IMO, an ability that starts "Spend [crit]" wouldn't count as a critical effect. Without additional ruling, I would permit a player to spend a [crit] for an effect, then resolve a standard (or non-standard) critical effect. (provided, of course, that they had a second [crit])

The rule in question would most probably be written as:

"CRIT: Spend a 'colour' 'CRIT' Icon to 'x'..."