I was pretty sure but it was called into question during the game. Thanks Alex. I successfully argued my case anyway and it was the only damage I made stick on the Inquisitor the entire game anyway...

I was pretty sure but it was called into question during the game. Thanks Alex. I successfully argued my case anyway and it was the only damage I made stick on the Inquisitor the entire game anyway...

Yeah, autothrusters uses the catch-all "firing arc" so if it's any type of firing arc (and not at R3), it's off.

I've been thinking about a list along these lines as well, but I really wanted to fit the title on Ventress. I take it you're happy without it?

Of course the title would be nice, but it would mean dropping HLC to mangler on IG, and I don't think its worth it. I don't have any math to back up my feeling, but I'm pretty sure the HLC will deal more damage than the tractor beam allows over the long run (if running Ventress in a 3 or 4 ship list, then the title would provide more value).

Instead of dropping to Mangler, I had been thinking:

Ventress + PTL + Engine + Title + Latts + BMST + Chute (51) (or Dengar and no Chute)

IG-88B + HLC + FCS + Crack Shot + BMST (49)

I really like AdvS + Predator on an IG so I was looking for a way to get Ventress down to 49. The title seems strong enough that I didn't want to drop it, but maybe it's not that important.

Instead of dropping to Mangler, I had been thinking:

Ventress + PTL + Engine + Title + Latts + BMST + Chute (51) (or Dengar and no Chute)

IG-88B + HLC + FCS + Crack Shot + BMST (49)

I really like AdvS + Predator on an IG so I was looking for a way to get Ventress down to 49. The title seems strong enough that I didn't want to drop it, but maybe it's not that important.

Well its not bad. For myself, advanced sensors is a million times more useful than FCS, so I could not think of dropping it. Others have had success with crack + FCS though, so I can't knock it.

I agree on the addition of BMST on IG. Its unlikely to get much use, but same is true for the chute...

Curious what your full list has been with Ventress?

I can't take credit for coming up with the list, but here it is:

Ventress w/ push the limit, dengar, BMST, rigged cargo shute & engine = 49

IG88 B w/ predator, HLC, advanced sensors & autothrusters = 51

100

MUCH prefer Ventress here than a 2nd IG. The aggressor has always struggled against aces, and Ventress provides just the sort of anti-ace tech an IG has always needed, so its a pretty **** good list. However, I haven't found rigged cargo shute to be useful. I have a few tweaks in mind, but they are untested as of yet...

How do you guys think this list compares to Dengaroo vs. most opposition ?

Only did play-testing in my head. I don't do Vassal and I didn't go to GenCon.

I can't wait to pick this ship up though, regardless of ANY play-testing.

I've been play testing with the following list recently:

Asajj Ventress

PTL

Tactician

Rigged cargo shoot (still playing around with taking/leaving this off for 1 point bid)

Title

Gyroscopic targeting

(48 or 47)

Syndicate Thug x2

TLT

R4 agromech

(26)

I've played about 10 games so far. It took me a while to get used to it but am having some success now. Asajj's stress ability at r1-2 is excellent, doubly so at r2 with tactician. With aces quite prevelent in the meta denying actions with a double stress and shutting down their PTL is extremely useful, defenders also struggle to clear that stress as alot of players leave off the mkii engines (Ryad notable exception).

I'm treating the title as a nice bonus when it works rather than setting up to maximise its advantage but being able to barrel roll a ship onto a rock and then drop its agility for the TLTs has comboed nicely for me a couple of times.

Regarding the gyroscopic targeting, its been noted by some here that it telegraphs your next move for you opponent, which is undoubtedly true. However, I've found two things from my games so far, firstly, when you have used PTL, its fairly obvious where you are going anyway and where its not possible for your opponent to block you, you can rotate you arc and keep your 2 actions for focus/evade/TL next turn. Secondly, it can be used as a double bluff, rotating your arc to indicate a move then dialing in a different move and using an action to move the arc. It also synergises really well with the suite of green maneuvres. Definitely worth the 2 points in my opinion, although it does take up the mod slot and I can see an argument for taking something like engine upgrade instead.

Regarding the gyroscopic targeting, its been noted by some here that it telegraphs your next move for you opponent, which is undoubtedly true. However, I've found two things from my games so far, firstly, when you have used PTL, its fairly obvious where you are going anyway and where its not possible for your opponent to block you, you can rotate you arc and keep your 2 actions for focus/evade/TL next turn. Secondly, it can be used as a double bluff, rotating your arc to indicate a move then dialing in a different move and using an action to move the arc. It also synergises really well with the suite of green maneuvres. Definitely worth the 2 points in my opinion, although it does take up the mod slot and I can see an argument for taking something like engine upgrade instead.

I think Gyroscopic Targeting is solid for 2 points. Nothing wrong with it. The fact is though, at the highest competitive levels, you are going to face Palp Aces and Dengaroo (at least given the current meta). Against both of these lists, engine gives you a huge advantage (or at least, can stop your opponent from negating Ventress' abilities).

For example, against Dengaroo, without engine, its possible for Manaroo to run away and avoid Ventress for long enough that Dengar can maybe eliminate one of your ships. With engine, Ventress has a considerably easier time catching Manaroo and inflicting the dreaded double stress on her to gimp her hubbie's power.

And against Palp Aces, without engine, its not super hard for a savvy imperial player to get his aces behind Ventress and then just stick to R3 where Ventress can't use her ability or BMST and she can't even deal damage due to autothrusters. With engine, if your opponent tries that, Ventress has the option to just zoom away, turn around and re-engage on your terms.

I'm with blade on the engine issue

Shadowcasters without re-positioning don't seem terribly impressive, and even if the mobile ARC action eats what could have been a focus you're still (hopefully) levarging your pilot ability to get into better positions for the following turns. Both manaroo and aces make very good cases for EU, especially considering what large base boost blocks can do to aces (and if you run ketsu...)

alternatively, if you can make expert handling work you can keep the scopes. they only trigger at speed 3+ anyway so you're generally clearing stress

I've been play testing with the following list recently:

Asajj Ventress

PTL

Tactician

Rigged cargo shoot (still playing around with taking/leaving this off for 1 point bid)

Title

Gyroscopic targeting

(48 or 47)

Syndicate Thug x2

TLT

R4 agromech

(26)

Saw something similar flown last night. The Shadowcaster + 2 TLT keeps you firing every turn, there's never a blind spot (if flown well).

I think I'm finally starting to see how it should be flown. Use the Mobile Arc to widen your coverage, and don't press to use the abilities off the mobile arc every turn, just as a bonus when you do. Some TLT to cover (potentially) blind spot, or deny an escape from the huge arc fits really well.

I gotta say Engine Upgrade looks much better on this thing than Gyroscope, adds some arc dodging and some blocking ability too (oh look we bumped and you're in my mobile arc? Take a stress and let me get behind you real quick). I think this ship is a great control piece, but you'll need to be careful to bring enough offense elsewhere, it can't carry a list on offense or defense like some other ships.

I've been play testing with the following list recently:

Asajj Ventress

PTL

Tactician

Rigged cargo shoot (still playing around with taking/leaving this off for 1 point bid)

Title

Gyroscopic targeting

(48 or 47)

Syndicate Thug x2

TLT

R4 agromech

(26)

I think you're onto something with Shadow Caster + 2xTLT. Tractor beam just has to be good combined with multiple TLT shots. The Shadow Caster is Scums first ship that can do damage while giving a tractor beam token. The first Shadow Caster list I'm going to try is very similar.

Sabine with Shadow Caster + 2xTLT with vectored thrusters

If I can't kill aces easy enough with Sabine, then I'll switch to Asajj like you are running. This lists weakness would definitely be jumpmasters, which is why I'll try and make Sabine work first to tank damage from the torps. You definitely don't want the Y-wings to get alpha striked off the board. Usually this should be doable with a good initial engagement.

I think you're onto something with Shadow Caster + 2xTLT. Tractor beam just has to be good combined with multiple TLT shots. The Shadow Caster is Scums first ship that can do damage while giving a tractor beam token. The first Shadow Caster list I'm going to try is very similar.

Sabine with Shadow Caster + 2xTLT with vectored thrusters

If I can't kill aces easy enough with Sabine, then I'll switch to Asajj like you are running. This lists weakness would definitely be jumpmasters, which is why I'll try and make Sabine work first to tank damage from the torps. You definitely don't want the Y-wings to get alpha striked off the board. Usually this should be doable with a good initial engagement.

100% agree that the worst match up for the lancer + 2TLT build is 3 u-boats. More so than Dengaroo because Dengar tends to hunt solo, and the two TLTs and the 180 arc have enough firepower to chip away at him while being less concerned about try to keep him in arc.

The only problem I see with Sabine against torps is that her ability is only range 1-2, so you need to get into the range 2 sweet spot to make it work. Definitely a potential candidate for an engine upgrade here as you will move after contracted scouts, although you will need to keep the y-wings out of range on the first pass as well so they don't just switch targets

Reviving the discussion because I've been flying this list with decent success:

Lancer-class Pursuit Draft: · Asajj Ventress (37)

Push The Limit (3)

Engine Upgrade (4)

Intelligence Agent (1)

Black Market Slicer Tools (1)

HWK-290: · Palob Godalhi (20)

Wired (1)

Twin Laser Turret (6)

· Zuckuss (1)

HWK-290: · Torkil Mux (19)

Twin Laser Turret (6)

· Greedo (1)

-- TOTAL ------- 100/100p. --

So many debuffs! My opponents have a very tough choice between which ship to focus on first, and the abilities synergize well to take out major threats efficiently.

I'm not completely sold on it's endurance against harder hitting lists, those poor HWKs get taken out fairly quickly, but it's certainly been a fun list to fly.

Anyone else finding good wingmates to bring with the Shadowcaster? I'm sold on Asajj with PTL/EU. She's so fast!

I didn't actually like PTL/EU on her all that much. She just felt like a weaker version of Dash with one less red dice, that has to care about asteroids, only has a partially green dial, and often has to use one of the PTL actions to set turret facing. Have much preferred the title + Ketsu crew, it's not too hard to get that initial hit in on anything but a palpace and once you do it's pretty much dead from all the stress and stacking tractor tokens.

Though I do like the Palob/Wired/Zuckuss combo let you activate wired with Zuckuss but still get focus with Palob's ability. Shame you couldn't afford the Crow title to let you stockpile some. As well as the TLT/Greedo combo to let you crit with a TLT (does the new FAQ make it work with both shots?)

As well as the TLT/Greedo combo to let you crit with a TLT (does the new FAQ make it work with both shots?)

That's the way I've been playing it, and my opponents have agreed.

Both volleys now count as one attack, and Greedo specifies "the first time you attack" so it encompasses both shots.

Same happens opposite way, if Tork gets TLTed first it will go face up on either attack. Might be worth an FAQ but haven't had any arguments yet.

This is what I have been thinking of playing Saturday. I have flown the Shadowcaster with a Protectorate and Zed. Played it well, but for almost the cost of a kitted Teroch, I can have a modified bus with more survivability. The Shadowcaster is a great ship and I have not had really any complaint on how it has performed.

Ketsu Onyo — Lancer-class Pursuit Craft 38

• Veteran Instincts 1
• Dengar 3
• Black Market Slicer Tools 1
• Gyroscopic Targeting 2
• Shadow Caster 3
• Ship Total: 48

N'Dru Suhlak — Z-95 Headhunter 17

• Fearlessness 1
• Black Market Slicer Tools 1
• Ship Total: 19

Trandoshan Slaver — YV-666 29

• Zuckuss 1
• 4-LOM 1
• Black Market Slicer Tools 1
• Ship Total: 32

I need to get over my fear of points. I hate piling so much into a single ship, which is why I fly almost nothing bit small base, but this one has just been fun to use and at mid to high 40s it seems to come to life.

Why Ketsu over Ventress? The tractor after a bump to roll them off is a cool trick but it requires you to face your turret forward and leaves you vulnerable to arc dodging. The stress from Ventress is easier to point, has a greater range, and is the last thing PTL arc dodgers want to see.

I don't feel like fearlessness really works on N'Dru. You want him to stay pretty away from your other ships but that's hard if not impossible to do while he's also at range 1 of the enemy.

Party buses need some sort of action independent reroll so they can still manage to get hits after Zuckuss piles on the stress and they can no longer focus/TL, that's usually Dengar

Why Ketsu over Ventress? The tractor after a bump to roll them off is a cool trick but it requires you to face your turret forward and leaves you vulnerable to arc dodging. The stress from Ventress is easier to point, has a greater range, and is the last thing PTL arc dodgers want to see.

I don't feel like fearlessness really works on N'Dru. You want him to stay pretty away from your other ships but that's hard if not impossible to do while he's also at range 1 of the enemy.

Party buses need some sort of action independent reroll so they can still manage to get hits after Zuckuss piles on the stress and they can no longer focus/TL, that's usually Dengar

I meant to have Bossk on there and failed to proof read my list. :-/ Take away Slicers and add Bossk for 99pts.

As for N'Dru, probably put VI on there? Not really sure what kind of EPT to include.

As far as Ketsu, I love Ketsu and have had a lot of success with the arc facing forward until I absolutely have to move it. Not really sure why to be honest, as I just started with him and have enjoyed his ability.

I meant to have Bossk on there and failed to proof read my list. :-/ Take away Slicers and add Bossk for 99pts.

As for N'Dru, probably put VI on there? Not really sure what kind of EPT to include.

As far as Ketsu, I love Ketsu and have had a lot of success with the arc facing forward until I absolutely have to move it. Not really sure why to be honest, as I just started with him and have enjoyed his ability.

He's right Party Bus should have Dengar, and though Bossk crew gets you the TL for next turn, you need to be modifying every shot (you won't be shooting very long).

Ndru is best fit as a 24 point glass cannon. Most common set up is VI, Cluster, GC and Glitterstim, but personally I've been running Deadeye, Concussion, GC, Glitterstim. A 5 die attack that gets 5 hits 90% of the time is a pretty good buy at 24 points. If he's ignored he continues to punish with the extra primary die.

Ketsu def needs Engine upgrade here instead of Gyroscope, and Dengar crew or K4 is good, but Dengar preferred.

Might be best to see what you can replace the party bus with... Palob TLT Wired Zuckuss might be calling your name instead

Z-95 Headhunter: · N'dru Suhlak (17)

Deadeye (1)

Concussion Missiles (4)

Guidance Chips (0)

Glitterstim (2)

Lancer-class Pursuit Draft: · Ketsu Onyo (38)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Engine Upgrade (4)

· Dengar (3)

Glitterstim (2)

HWK-290: · Palob Godalhi (20)

Wired (1)

Twin Laser Turret (6)

· Zuckuss (1)

Lone Wolf works on N'Dru since it has the same activation condition as his main power and increases his survivability but VI to to help him get his shot off before being vaporized or deadeye to prevent having to acquire a low PS TL if he's got range 3 ordinance are more popular as they're cheaper.

I prefer clusters to concussions since I feel like they're better at dropping things like Ghosts and J5ks, especially if you've tractored (or double tractored) them with the Lancer, since you get an extra dice for both attacks. Though you can only use the GCs once. But concussions and homing missiles have the advantage of being range 3 and that can often be the difference between getting your shot off or eat a pair of U-boat torpedoes and wasting 20 something points.

my flgs is expecting to have them sometime between this week and next week.

Where is your flgs? Crazy man, crazy...

I meant to have Bossk on there and failed to proof read my list. :-/ Take away Slicers and add Bossk for 99pts.

As for N'Dru, probably put VI on there? Not really sure what kind of EPT to include.

As far as Ketsu, I love Ketsu and have had a lot of success with the arc facing forward until I absolutely have to move it. Not really sure why to be honest, as I just started with him and have enjoyed his ability.

He's right Party Bus should have Dengar, and though Bossk crew gets you the TL for next turn, you need to be modifying every shot (you won't be shooting very long).

Ndru is best fit as a 24 point glass cannon. Most common set up is VI, Cluster, GC and Glitterstim, but personally I've been running Deadeye, Concussion, GC, Glitterstim. A 5 die attack that gets 5 hits 90% of the time is a pretty good buy at 24 points. If he's ignored he continues to punish with the extra primary die.

Ketsu def needs Engine upgrade here instead of Gyroscope, and Dengar crew or K4 is good, but Dengar preferred.

Might be best to see what you can replace the party bus with... Palob TLT Wired Zuckuss might be calling your name instead

Z-95 Headhunter: · N'dru Suhlak (17)

Deadeye (1)

Concussion Missiles (4)

Guidance Chips (0)

Glitterstim (2)

Lancer-class Pursuit Draft: · Ketsu Onyo (38)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Engine Upgrade (4)

· Dengar (3)

Glitterstim (2)

HWK-290: · Palob Godalhi (20)

Wired (1)

Twin Laser Turret (6)

· Zuckuss (1)

Oddly enough, I was really researching last night a way to get a HWK-290 in there!

Why Ketsu over Ventress? The tractor after a bump to roll them off is a cool trick but it requires you to face your turret forward and leaves you vulnerable to arc dodging. The stress from Ventress is easier to point, has a greater range, and is the last thing PTL arc dodgers want to see.

VI and an initiative bid (and engine) means you arent vulnerable to arcdodgers with ketsu. You give them initiative, then have boost if needed to get the right range. And arcdodgers absolutely do t want to see the tractor from ketsu. Especially when its combined with latts razzi so your stealth device soontir or cloaked phantom now has 2 agility. And if ketsu hits, latts is attacking against -2 agility as well

eh...between a rotating 180 coverage and TWO illicit slots, one of which can be a double-stress debris you can drop before higher PS activates , all on top of your awesome pilot ability , I'd think aces would give you the least trouble out of anything in the game

not to mention all Ketsu has to do to ruin an ace's **** is block it

that's it

block it, it's in your arcs, roll em out of base 2 base and enjoy Inqy ala carte