I would suspect that palpatine on the Upsilon is a temporary thing - I believe that the First Order, Empire, Rebel, and Resistance factions will become seperate at some point. The reason they aren't now, is because there are currently two ships. One for each faction. As we get more ships to fill out these current sub-factions, they become more likely to stand on their own.

I expect a FAQ update that states they are seperate factions in a couple years time.

Why? Because there are cards out there that don't state or have any indication what time period they are from.

Is mara Jade for example from the ot? Or is she from tfa era?

Maybe you know, that answer but believe it or not there are people out there who don't.

Maybe Disney will release something and suddenly she is no longer from the era you once knew. Mara Jade is one example, what about nein numb? He's around during the tfa era, so can he be used for both? The same can be said about different upgrade and pilots. Kyle Katarn. Again maybe not everyone knows which era he's from, and again Disney could change that with a comic/show/movie/book

There is absolutely nothing stopping players from hosting their own events and play with these restrictions, but ffg probably won't bother.

Let's not forget that when they are play testing, it's being play tested as one faction. To separate it into its own faction down the road can have balancing issues

The problem becomes, as we have seen, Kylo Ren is still "Imperial Only", not "First Order" only. Same with the Rey and Finn crew upgrades, most likely. Good luck trying to split those into separate factions again.

You'll probably need to use the PS4 Upsilon to be truly safe. Otherwise, a Black Sun Soldier with Slicer Tools could still tag Soontir after he's coordinated but before he executes his green.

Coordinate has the same issue that Squad Leader does: it allows you to transfer an action from one ship to another ship, rather than creating new actions (the way PTL does.)

That's not to say that transferring actions can't be powerful! The CR-90 does it because it gets 2 actions natively, and if it isn't Coordinating, it's TLing- and 1 TL for 4 attacks isn't doing much.

If the Upsilon is transfering it's single action to another ship, that means that it is not modifing it's 4 die attack. Whatever it's doing with Coordinate had better be worth a lot!

Quadruple action PtL Vader.

...

K.

They aren't splitting the subfactions. The existence of subfactions does two things. First, it's thematic, and second, it gives them another tool for card restrictions (which hasn't been utilized yet). If they were going to split the subfactions, they would have made BB-8 Resistance only, and Kylo Ren crew First Order only, so on and so forth.

It's also worth noting that if they did, Scum would suddenly have twice as many components as the other 4 factions. So, simply put, no, it's not going to happen.

Eesh, you're right. That is going to be scary. Those people trying to downplay the effectiveness of coordinate aren't thinking it through. The shuttle can also take Enhanced Scopes (remember that little card? If you're like me, you've probably never used it, but it lets you activate at PS0). That means that the shuttle can go first, give Soontir (or whoever) a free action, PtL blah blah blah and Soontir never has to worry about losing his actions if he gets blocked. But that's not all, if your opponent doesn't have QuickDraw, or isn't in a position to block you, then you DON'T HAVE TO coordinate. Skilled players are going to know when to coordinate and when not to.

I'm with the OP- I'm not complaining or predicting that the sky is going to fall, but still, buckle up. Coordinating Palp Aces IS going to be a thing.

EDIT: Activating at PS0 doesn't help against BMST. Fixed that.

Soontir repositioning at PS0 is not something I am worried about.

The point is not a Soontir (or whatever other ace you want to insert here) repositioning at PS0, it's having that ace generating a stack of tokens at PS0, on the turns it needs it, then clearing stress and taking yet another action before the combat phase. That's the real trick here. Most aces go down pretty fast if you can block them and focus fire them when they don't have their token stack to hide behind. With the UPS coordinating, all of a sudden blocking doesn't matter any more.

On the other hand, the 4-die primary on the Upsilon could sure do with an action.

And you're paying for that ship. I suspect it'll be more built as a hammer than a buff-craft.

Still, I do find the overall idea fascinating: Now that two factions have 4-die primary large based ships, I wonder how long it will take Scum to get one of their own? Why, there's even a ship noted for its massive firepower... who's already in Armada... heh heh heh.

Eesh, you're right. That is going to be scary. Those people trying to downplay the effectiveness of coordinate aren't thinking it through. The shuttle can also take Enhanced Scopes (remember that little card? If you're like me, you've probably never used it, but it lets you activate at PS0). That means that the shuttle can go first, give Soontir (or whoever) a free action, PtL blah blah blah and Soontir never has to worry about losing his actions if he gets blocked. But that's not all, if your opponent doesn't have QuickDraw, or isn't in a position to block you, then you DON'T HAVE TO coordinate. Skilled players are going to know when to coordinate and when not to.

I'm with the OP- I'm not complaining or predicting that the sky is going to fall, but still, buckle up. Coordinating Palp Aces IS going to be a thing.

EDIT: Activating at PS0 doesn't help against BMST. Fixed that.

Soontir repositioning at PS0 is not something I am worried about.

The point is not a Soontir (or whatever other ace you want to insert here) repositioning at PS0, it's having that ace generating a stack of tokens at PS0, on the turns it needs it, then clearing stress and taking yet another action before the combat phase. That's the real trick here. Most aces go down pretty fast if you can block them and focus fire them when they don't have their token stack to hide behind. With the UPS coordinating, all of a sudden blocking doesn't matter any more.

And thus, you are limiting his usefulness. If he is token stacking, then he isn't going to be able to full reposition. Token stacks are nice, but avoiding shots is still the best way to avoid damage.

How about some major action independance?

Kylo Ren (34)

Fire-Control System (2)

Weapons Engineer (3)

Ysanne Isard (4)

Comm Relay (3)

Total: 46

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I would suspect that palpatine on the Upsilon is a temporary thing - I believe that the First Order, Empire, Rebel, and Resistance factions will become seperate at some point.

Want some fairly compelling evidence that they won't?

No mechanism for separating upgrade cards.

Also: If you seperate Resistance and Rebels, FO and Imperials, you're going to end up with entire factions who don't have access to the Tech slot.

To say nothing of what happens to Scum: They have precisely one ship to date that counts as 'sufficiently new'. Or do they get to keep their Episode 7 tugboat, while everyone else gets split in two?

Like it or not, I think they're here to stay, mixed and mingled through three periods of history. Just treat it as a 'what if', if you must: It's little different to Han fighting Han in the finals of a tournament.

I really don't understand the want/expectation to split the subfactions into completely new factions

it's just so unnecessary and adds a rather asinine limitation on squad building for no gain

The key to this ship will be its dial. If it has a dial that's like the shuttle your paying a lot of pts for a ship that'll take two turns to turn around. A 4 primary ship needs to be shooting. The shuttle can usually sit out of the fight, and the other two aces can handle things on their own. This I think you'll want in the right

Eesh, you're right. That is going to be scary. Those people trying to downplay the effectiveness of coordinate aren't thinking it through. The shuttle can also take Enhanced Scopes (remember that little card? If you're like me, you've probably never used it, but it lets you activate at PS0). That means that the shuttle can go first, give Soontir (or whoever) a free action, PtL blah blah blah and Soontir never has to worry about losing his actions if he gets blocked. But that's not all, if your opponent doesn't have QuickDraw, or isn't in a position to block you, then you DON'T HAVE TO coordinate. Skilled players are going to know when to coordinate and when not to.

I'm with the OP- I'm not complaining or predicting that the sky is going to fall, but still, buckle up. Coordinating Palp Aces IS going to be a thing.

EDIT: Activating at PS0 doesn't help against BMST. Fixed that.

Soontir repositioning at PS0 is not something I am worried about.

The point is not a Soontir (or whatever other ace you want to insert here) repositioning at PS0, it's having that ace generating a stack of tokens at PS0, on the turns it needs it, then clearing stress and taking yet another action before the combat phase. That's the real trick here. Most aces go down pretty fast if you can block them and focus fire them when they don't have their token stack to hide behind. With the UPS coordinating, all of a sudden blocking doesn't matter any more.

And thus, you are limiting his usefulness. If he is token stacking, then he isn't going to be able to full reposition. Token stacks are nice, but avoiding shots is still the best way to avoid damage.

Why can't he fully reposition?

Coordinate an action to Soontir. He boosts.

Soontir activates and barrel rolls, and uses PtL to evade.

This gives him a stress token, which gives him a focus token.

You also realize that Soontir maintains his ability to activate normally without coordinate should that be beneficial. Or start using coordinate PtL repositioning at low PS in order to block should that be beneficial. Or to token up before bumping in order to nullify the benefits of bumping. Or just activate normally. This gives you a massive amount of flexibility.

Let's say that the cheapest Force Awakens shuttle is 28 points, so with Palp that'll be 36. Throw in the Inquisitor at 31 points and you have 33 points left for a Defender. Or you go Soontir and Omega Leader, and you have 3 points leftover for a mod on OL or something on the shuttle.

Neo-Lambda, Palpatine 36

31 point Inquisitor

Vessery with x7. Or Ryad/Glaive with a 1 point upgrade.

Or hell, why not 35 point Soontir with an x7 Delta? PS isn't very relevant for Defenders, they're always going to do a 4 K-Turn regardless of what PS they're at, there is no mystery to it.

And it's not like it's going to have a worse dial than a Lambda.

But of course, Palp Aces isn't broken and you just have to git gud and block, right?

I'm curious as to why no one is mentioning that this bad boy has a base 4 attack

I'm curious as to why no one is mentioning that this bad boy has a base 4 attack

4 attack? Ho hum. Let me know when ships get 5 attack, k?

I really don't understand the want/expectation to split the subfactions into completely new factions

it's just so unnecessary and adds a rather asinine limitation on squad building for no gain

The current three factions with their 5 subfactions are the model for the foreseeable future. Scum will likely split further into two to three more subfactions as well as the main Scum And Villiany subfaction. FO and Resistence will continue to grow but be part of Imps and Rebels just like Galactic Empire and Rebel Alliance continue to grow and remain the 'main' subfactions. I don't know if there could be further subfactions in Rebel or Imperial but I do doubt we will see another full blown faction anytime soon. The big three pretty much cover the dynamics of the SW Galaxy.

Considering FFG's unwillingness to actually fix their game and errata a card other than Tactician, I doubt they'd make subfactions an actual thing.

Eesh, you're right. That is going to be scary. Those people trying to downplay the effectiveness of coordinate aren't thinking it through. The shuttle can also take Enhanced Scopes (remember that little card? If you're like me, you've probably never used it, but it lets you activate at PS0). That means that the shuttle can go first, give Soontir (or whoever) a free action, PtL blah blah blah and Soontir never has to worry about losing his actions if he gets blocked. But that's not all, if your opponent doesn't have QuickDraw, or isn't in a position to block you, then you DON'T HAVE TO coordinate. Skilled players are going to know when to coordinate and when not to.

I'm with the OP- I'm not complaining or predicting that the sky is going to fall, but still, buckle up. Coordinating Palp Aces IS going to be a thing.

EDIT: Activating at PS0 doesn't help against BMST. Fixed that.

So what you are saying is that Quickdraw can shoot at PS0?

If Soontir is repositioning at PS0 he's losing a lot of reactive ability: his repositioning ceases to be reactive. That makes him fly like a TIE phantom: if he does most of his actions early in the phase then he can no longer fully use his high PS to fully anticipate enemy maneuvers.

Coordinate is definitely a useful ability but its many costs prevent it from being a true powerup.

the 4 attack on the upsilon doesnt really mean much. When it DOES attack its going to potentially hit hard but you just know its going to have a terrible dial like the lambda does. As bad a dial? probably not. Still pretty bloody terrible? definitely. Much like the lambda its going to actually attack 2-3 times a game lol assuming it doesnt go poof the moment people get in range on it.

If Soontir is repositioning at PS0 he's losing a lot of reactive ability: his repositioning ceases to be reactive. That makes him fly like a TIE phantom: if he does most of his actions early in the phase then he can no longer fully use his high PS to fully anticipate enemy maneuvers.

Coordinate is definitely a useful ability but its many costs prevent it from being a true powerup.

I'm curious as to why no one is mentioning that this bad boy has a base 4 attack

Which would be great if it could stay at distance, but if it wants to coordinate it has to stay in the middle of the fight. That's somewhere a shuttle doesn't really want to be. If it's acting as a combat ship it wants to shoot into the furball.

You guys seem to forget that Coordinate is optional. You can just not reposition at low PS if it would be beneficial. It is a power up, it does not have many costs. You can also just token up at low PS.

This is a huge power up. You're not tied to Coordinate, Palp Aces is still super broken without Coordinate. You can still reposition at high PS if that would benefit you. Or you could reposition at low PS if that would be beneficial. Now your Aces get an additional action and advanced sensors .

Let's assume that the generic PS 2 Upsilon is 28 points, so 36 points with Palpatine. With a 31 point Inquisitor you have 33 points left, which could be a 33 point Defender of your choice. You're not losing much by paying extra for the Upsilon.

Eesh, you're right. That is going to be scary. Those people trying to downplay the effectiveness of coordinate aren't thinking it through. The shuttle can also take Enhanced Scopes (remember that little card? If you're like me, you've probably never used it, but it lets you activate at PS0). That means that the shuttle can go first, give Soontir (or whoever) a free action, PtL blah blah blah and Soontir never has to worry about losing his actions if he gets blocked. But that's not all, if your opponent doesn't have QuickDraw, or isn't in a position to block you, then you DON'T HAVE TO coordinate. Skilled players are going to know when to coordinate and when not to.

I'm with the OP- I'm not complaining or predicting that the sky is going to fall, but still, buckle up. Coordinating Palp Aces IS going to be a thing.

EDIT: Activating at PS0 doesn't help against BMST. Fixed that.

So what you are saying is that Quickdraw can shoot at PS0?

Aheh. I have to remember this.

Albeit, if your opponent has let Quickdraw get into a useful attack range and left him there for a turn and he still has shields left... something's gone awry for him already.

Eesh, you're right. That is going to be scary. Those people trying to downplay the effectiveness of coordinate aren't thinking it through. The shuttle can also take Enhanced Scopes (remember that little card? If you're like me, you've probably never used it, but it lets you activate at PS0). That means that the shuttle can go first, give Soontir (or whoever) a free action, PtL blah blah blah and Soontir never has to worry about losing his actions if he gets blocked. But that's not all, if your opponent doesn't have QuickDraw, or isn't in a position to block you, then you DON'T HAVE TO coordinate. Skilled players are going to know when to coordinate and when not to.

I'm with the OP- I'm not complaining or predicting that the sky is going to fall, but still, buckle up. Coordinating Palp Aces IS going to be a thing.

EDIT: Activating at PS0 doesn't help against BMST. Fixed that.

Soontir repositioning at PS0 is not something I am worried about.

The point is not a Soontir (or whatever other ace you want to insert here) repositioning at PS0, it's having that ace generating a stack of tokens at PS0, on the turns it needs it, then clearing stress and taking yet another action before the combat phase. That's the real trick here. Most aces go down pretty fast if you can block them and focus fire them when they don't have their token stack to hide behind. With the UPS coordinating, all of a sudden blocking doesn't matter any more.

And thus, you are limiting his usefulness. If he is token stacking, then he isn't going to be able to full reposition. Token stacks are nice, but avoiding shots is still the best way to avoid damage.

Why can't he fully reposition?

You can't fully reposition at PS0 because you don't know where you need to go yet.

My gut feel with this is that it will work nicely with TC Soontir, to give him focus/evade/TL plus a single repositioning action or another focus after he's moved. And more to the point, it renders Soontir basically bump proof...