That's kinda nuts even by the standards of the current meta. Is it just a regional thing where less people in the UK play Rebels?

The British commonwealth playing as a faction named "Empire?"

.....nope, no connection there.

There's a difference between the "Commonwealth" and "the Empire." Like the difference between the New Republic and The Empire.

people are just not playing them because the internet says they are bad

This is exactly the problem with the current UK meta. It relies heavily on the opinions of others (namely the podcasts). It seems in the US, any time a new hot list is discovered that rocks the meta, people either play it, or figure out new and interesting ways to defeat it. Resulting in a more diverse meta (see the top lists from the US nationals the other week).

In the UK however, they read about these lists online and hear about it on the podcasts and suddenly everyone is flying it. Noone tries any experimenting in order to beat it, they just adopt the 'can't beat em, join em' mentality and you end up with Jumpmaster/Imp Aces everywhere. It's the same with what the internet/podcasts declare is a 'bad' ship, they're avoided like the plague.

hanging on in quiet desperation IS the english way

We don't despair old chap we stiffen our lips and have a brew, it's how we got through years of the blitz when it was just us vs the axis.

Better than being isolationist and xenophobic if you ask me.

I think the denigration of competitive players as lemmings living off the internet is really really off-base to me. The good lists are really good and if you're at the top level you're not going to change it up just to have some variety.

The R4 agro nerf spooked a lot of people I know out of jumpmasters but I don't think it was a huge nerf- in fact it opens up some build space to throw in feedbacks to help the end game or extra crew. But then I am in the US. I think our nationals was a weird outlier because it was played at a con with other things so you got a lot more casual players just going to play some X-wing at gencon rather than going to compete for the national champs.

Nobody has said this yet but the factions listed on the sheet are wrong.

If players didn't pre-reg properly it defaulted them to Imperial. There were a few more Rebel lists than that, and at least one Scum player was listed Imperial. Still imbalanced but not as badly.

And, yes, UK meta loves their big bases.

Well, we just a had regional this weekend in New Zealand with two rebel lists slugging it out in the final. Rebels are fine, people are just not playing them because the internet says they are bad

When 'the Internet' includes the guy that won Worlds 3 times playing Rebels, then there is probably some truth in the Internet's opinion.

Rebels have one of the strongest list of the meta, it's only that for reason that I don't understand that people don't play it and keep whining about rebels being weak right now

Top 32 for day 2 has 3 Rebels and the rest split between the Imps and the Scum with Imperials in overall control (top Rebel player was 19th)

Must have felt great to go to a big event and face absolutely no regen ships or fat turrets.

All FFG has to do now is eliminate Palp Aces and we'll have the perfect meta.

So nothing but ordnance carrying large bases is the perfect meta? What are you smoking and how do I get some?

Silly man making silly statement.

**** me this is one sh*tty meta we've gotten ourselves into.

'Be careful what you wish for' I think applies very strongly here. We just wanted Ordnance to be good. But not this!

EDIT: Also fix the T-65 FFG

If Scouts weren't a thing, you wouldn't see any ordnance. You think bombers have a chance against Palp Aces? No.

Palp Aces is worse for the game than U-Boats are.

**** me this is one sh*tty meta we've gotten ourselves into.

'Be careful what you wish for' I think applies very strongly here. We just wanted Ordnance to be good. But not this!

EDIT: Also fix the T-65 FFG

Oh BS!

If Scouts weren't a thing, you wouldn't see any ordnance. You think bombers have a chance against Palp Aces? No.

Palp Aces is worse for the game than U-Boats are.

Out of curiosity, do you think future releases have enough punch to diminsh Palp Aces' power enough that we'll see less Palp Aces lists? BMST & stress ARC are the first things that I feel should have at least some kind of impact.

**** me this is one sh*tty meta we've gotten ourselves into.

'Be careful what you wish for' I think applies very strongly here. We just wanted Ordnance to be good. But not this!

EDIT: Also fix the T-65 FFG

Oh BS!

If Scouts weren't a thing, you wouldn't see any ordnance. You think bombers have a chance against Palp Aces? No.

Palp Aces is worse for the game than U-Boats are.

Out of curiosity, do you think future releases have enough punch to diminsh Palp Aces' power enough that we'll see less Palp Aces lists? BMST & stress ARC are the first things that I feel should have at least some kind of impact.

problem with the stress ARC is, like basically everything in rebels, torp scouts

not that I don't love torp scouts, the fact that they have large base roll and freaking feedback arrays rank them among my favorite ships in the game

but that ordnance is not kind to low agility ships

against anything that isn't a JM5k (not counting manaroo), R3-a2 Stress Braylen is actually pretty boss. Would actually say he's necessary to beating palp aces with ARCs as even poor Thane with crackshot can only kill one ace.

which is sad because Thane kicks dengaroo to the curb, but what can you do?

**** me this is one sh*tty meta we've gotten ourselves into.

'Be careful what you wish for' I think applies very strongly here. We just wanted Ordnance to be good. But not this!

EDIT: Also fix the T-65 FFG

Oh BS!

If Scouts weren't a thing, you wouldn't see any ordnance. You think bombers have a chance against Palp Aces? No.

Palp Aces is worse for the game than U-Boats are.

Meta was fine for Rebels before U-Boats, they had the tools to deal with palp aces. For example, that one damage an imperial would have taken but not because of palp is the equivalent of a regen ship gaining back the damage from last turn, plus stress control, and the combos rebels can make, but when a ship with ordinance comes in and can virtually eliminate a ship from the board before it even blinks, then there's the problem. I don't think you would see a bunch of bombers but you would see list that are creative and have one or two bombers with a variety of other ships.

I made it in with mindlinked Kavil, Palob and Manaroo, so stick that in your pipe and smoke it (just like I'm about to get smoked today, most likely)

Would you mind sharing your list? It sounds interesting. How does it perform against Palpaces and U-boats?

2 Imperials and 2 Scum in the semi finals

Looks like theres a stream up, current game - Jumpmasters versus Defenders

https://www.twitch.tv/kirtongames

Mike Dennis

Colonel Vessery - Juke, Tie/x7, Twin Ion Engine MkII

Countess Ryad - Push the Limit, TIS/x7, Twin Ion Engine Mk II

Delta Squadron Pilot - Tie/X7

Duncan Callander

Contracted Scount # 1 Ion Torpedo, Extra Munitions, 4-LOM, Overclocked R4, Deadeye, Guidance Chips

Contracted Scount # 2 Plasma Torpedo, Extra Munitions, Overclocked R4, Deadeye, Guidance Chips

Contracted Scount # 3 Plasma Torpedo, Extra Munitions, Overclocked R4, Deadeye, Guidance Chips

So awesome to see trip defenders being used in competitive play.

So awesome to see trip defenders being used in competitive play.

Awesome to see ANY Imperial list being used without Palp in competitive play. Bored of seeing him in 80% of Imperial builds in tournament play.

edited: Rephrased for politness :-)

A lot comments here from people who don't understand the UK meta.

1) The bigger the event, the more likely you will see it dominated by cookie cutter lists. Oddities do well in small, local events where you know the meta very well, but they quickly get countered in larger events because you will have a greater chance of seeing your hard counter.

2) The majority of UK events are larger than, or have a wider catchment area than, all but the largest US tournaments and this is why their meta is less flexible. But "US nationals is huge", you say. Sure, but it's special. In the UK almost any random event is within 1 or 2 hours travel of 50+ million people so you are strongly encouraged to bring take-all-comers lists even in regular play.

I made it in with mindlinked Kavil, Palob and Manaroo, so stick that in your pipe and smoke it (just like I'm about to get smoked today, most likely)

Would you mind sharing your list? It sounds interesting. How does it perform against Palpaces and U-boats?

Sure

kavil, mindlink, TLT, Engine, unhinged Astromech

Palob, mindlink, autoblaster turret, Cloaking Device, stygium particle accelerator

Manaroo, mindlink, K4 droid, unhinged Astromech, plasma torps, extra munitions, chips

Its beaten boats nine times out of ten, and palp aces have a really hard time as well. it struggles vs defenders and dengaroo

A lot comments here from people who don't understand the UK meta.

1) The bigger the event, the more likely you will see it dominated by cookie cutter lists. Oddities do well in small, local events where you know the meta very well, but they quickly get countered in larger events because you will have a greater chance of seeing your hard counter.

2) The majority of UK events are larger than, or have a wider catchment area than, all but the largest US tournaments and this is why their meta is less flexible. But "US nationals is huge", you say. Sure, but it's special. In the UK almost any random event is within 1-2 hours travel of 50+ million people so you are strongly encouraged to bring take-all-comers lists even in regular play.

Many plus ones to this comment!

We absolutely do have a big copycat meta in the UK - it's a symptom of the local environment. I don't think that makes it any better/worse as a representative slice of the current lists being flown. (And what is a meta if not that). I do take issue with any claims that the UK is any less relevant as a result.

Think of it this way - if there is a local event on, it's hard for players to justify taking kooky "experimental" lists when they know that there will likely be a good turnout of quality players running strong "meta" lists.

It's also worth noting that the UK is also not without it's own meta lists - Push the Limit IGs were not part of any meta until they won UK nationals last year. Since then I've seen them at competitions all over Europe.

As for 2016 UK nationals - I saw a lot more Defenders than I was expecting, and they came out of a meta I think everyone had almost considered solved.

people are just not playing them because the internet says they are bad

This is exactly the problem with the current UK meta. It relies heavily on the opinions of others (namely the podcasts). It seems in the US, any time a new hot list is discovered that rocks the meta, people either play it, or figure out new and interesting ways to defeat it. Resulting in a more diverse meta (see the top lists from the US nationals the other week).

In the UK however, they read about these lists online and hear about it on the podcasts and suddenly everyone is flying it. Noone tries any experimenting in order to beat it, they just adopt the 'can't beat em, join em' mentality and you end up with Jumpmaster/Imp Aces everywhere. It's the same with what the internet/podcasts declare is a 'bad' ship, they're avoided like the plague.

Which is super ironic as the T-65 is one of those ships and the counter to many things right now is to use those T-65 (Wes and Biggs)

Well, we just a had regional this weekend in New Zealand with two rebel lists slugging it out in the final. Rebels are fine, people are just not playing them because the internet says they are bad

When 'the Internet' includes the guy that won Worlds 3 times playing Rebels, then there is probably some truth in the Internet's opinion.

Heaver was at GenCon. He was flying a rebel lists and got kicked out of the tournament in a mirror match against another rebel who made it to top 4 of the NA Championships. So much for your internet wisdom.

Well, we just a had regional this weekend in New Zealand with two rebel lists slugging it out in the final. Rebels are fine, people are just not playing them because the internet says they are bad

When 'the Internet' includes the guy that won Worlds 3 times playing Rebels, then there is probably some truth in the Internet's opinion.

Heaver was at GenCon. He was flying a rebel lists and got kicked out of the tournament in a mirror match against another rebel who made it to top 4 of the NA Championships. So much for your internet wisdom.

He dropped after qualifying for Day 2, he wasn't eliminated. He wanted to play in IA.

Well, we just a had regional this weekend in New Zealand with two rebel lists slugging it out in the final. Rebels are fine, people are just not playing them because the internet says they are bad

When 'the Internet' includes the guy that won Worlds 3 times playing Rebels, then there is probably some truth in the Internet's opinion.

Heaver was at GenCon. He was flying a rebel lists and got kicked out of the tournament in a mirror match against another rebel who made it to top 4 of the NA Championships. So much for your internet wisdom.

Heaver has a habit of happily being defeated/dropping out of regionals and nationals.

It's almost as if he's in for the practice and the meta-read, but wants to go do other things at a con... and saves his A-game for worlds.

Better than being isolationist and xenophobic if you ask me.

Which is why Brexit was overwhelmingly defeated...

>Takes kooky list.

>Finishes 4-2, missing the cut by 14 MoV (when you count the drops).

I'd say I did alright.

Soontir with PTL, Autothrusters, Title, Targeting Computer.

Tomax Bren with Crack Shot, Proton Torps, Extra Munitions, Guidance Chips.

Major Rhymer with VI, Homing Missiles, Extra Munitions, Guidance Chips.

Better than being isolationist and xenophobic if you ask me.

Which is why Brexit was overwhelmingly defeated...

That was about neither, we are a member but our opinion means nothing we used our veto 23 times and it was ignored, we abstained 18 times and it was ignored.

We had frak all influence but had to obey every EU dictate.

That is why alot of us wanted out, border control is an important issue but it wasn't the only one.

But of course they tried to demonize anyone that wanted out so we were all obviously racists.