In 2e, if I recall, there was a rule that a player couldn't cast both divine magic and arcane magic. 3e seems to seperate this into magic and miracles instead of two different types of magic, although the flavor text in the books discusses if they MIGHT theoretically be the same thing. But I didn't see a hard-and-fast "apprentices can't become initiates" rule, or one that would keep initiates from becoming wizards.

So in WFRP3, can an apprentice wizard go on to become an initiate and cast miracles in addition to his arcane spells, since one uses Favor and the other Power, and one uses Piety and the other Spellcraft? Since there's overlap on WP, that would seem like a scary character.

I tend to discourage these things, while possible they are typically just power gaming fetishes. And take away from the game, rather than add it.

I'm sure religous wizards are quite common. Don't make the gods angry. But really if you were a wizard odds are you are obsessed with that path, and the same with a priest. They might nod to the other way, but not ever be more than a dabbler. While warhammer has a career system, I think the mechanical aspect doesnt give justice to the concept of what you are talking about. Going from a warrior to a theif not such a big deal, learn some new skills, make some friends.. Magic and miracles... its not like working at taco bell one day, then switching to burger king because mechanically they are the same, just different flavors.

Go for it though, when its all said and done, and you play that way, ur either gonna love it or hate it most likely. Same with the other players at the table. Setting purists are gonna be upset. Unless you weave a awsome tale of course to cover up the munchin ism of it.

If I did do it, the character would be epic, the character would be as famous as sigmar, or teclis, think about it. And if that character is that special, the other players will feel crappy about it. I just think its a can of worms with little fun except for the guy who gets to play it.

I agree it would make an overly powerful character, which is why I had wondered if I just overlooked it. The fact that they designed two different mechanisms supports the idea that it's possible, and the fact that they're both academic/basic careers that are human only means it would only cost a Reiklander one advance to transition between them. The presence of the two different systems made me wonder if they were going to approach High Elvish magic as some sort of hybrid between the two. I hadn't seen a rule forbidding cross-over, and was just wondering if anyone else had, since it explicitly states other things such as that only one College can be accessed.

They probably left it as a choice for the GM. Given suitable roleplaying, I don't see why it couldn't be done. They can only advance in one career path at a time, and can't cast Wizard spells while wearing armor, etc.

Don't forget that a Wizard gives up a Talent slot and gets an Order slot in it's place. Priests give up a Talent slot for a Faith slot. If you leave either of these careers for another, there is no place to socket the Order/Faith card on any other career. so I see there being no way to leave these careers and retain the spell/blessing abilities, let alone have a Priest/Wizard uber character. In another thread it was mentioned that a Wizard who turns his back on his Order would probably be hunted down and killed, giving a fluff justification for why it isn't done. While you can make a good case for a Priest losing Faith and turning his back on his god to become something else, perhaps even a Wizard (as unlikely as that seems), he would no longer be able to invoke blessings after turning his back on his god. If players could drop into these careers and pick up a couple spells/blessings and move on without losing them, there would be a much higher temptation to do so since there would be no mechanical drawback offsetting the benefit. This however goes against the setting which would have Wizards becoming obsessed with knowledge/mastery of the Winds and never dreaming of doing something else. In short, this ain't D&D and Priests/Wizards don't exist. Once you decide to go down one of these paths you give up career flexibility for the benefits of going deeper down said path.

And I've just been overruled by the latest update to the FAQ.

Mechanically it is possible, but the FAQ further agrees with me that such a career transition (out of Wizard/Priest) is highly unusual. I'd still insist on a very good in-game rationale for the career change and make life a bit more difficult for the PC in question as a result and feel completely justified in doing so.

There is a precedent for priests of Morr becoming Amethyst Wizards; in fact, a large number of Amethyst Wizards start off as priests of Morr, according to Realms of Sorcery v2. So transitioning from priest to wizard is not that unusual.

On the other hand, the fluff says that wizards (or at least, human wizards) know too much about the gods, magic, and daemons to have the level of faith necessary to become spellcasting priests. Elves and Slann might be a different matter, since most High Elf Mages are also priests of Hoeth, and Slann Mage-priests are... well, mage-priests.

mac40k said:

I agree... The rules for Swordmaster and Ironbreaker say that the player must continue in that career until all advancements are complete. Likewise, I think it should be strongly encouraged that wizards/priests remain within their career line. But current cards only allow 1 advance for wizards or priests if such a rule is put in place, and it still makes sense for a wizard to pick up scribe or even a priest to pick up zealot... So I'm inclined to believe the main thing prohibiting it is the loss of focus - where you can do a few things acceptibly well but don't specialize at much of anything.

Vaeron said:

Urm, career advancement that is.