... are navigators allowed to have sex ? With navigator gene and all that ...

I'm asking this because Navigator in my party wants to seduce the doctor that has been healing him for some time ...

Yep. The Navigator gene only passes between Nobilitae bloodliens, breeding 'outwith' only produces mewling messes. And, if they're using contraception, simply having pleasant (if mutant) sex ought not to be a problem.

Though there's plenty of opportunity to take draconian or victorian views towards sex in the 40k universe, I find it to be amongst the more mature aspects in which a canny player can really twist a situation to their advantage; as a very basic point: commercial pillow talk? To that end: sure. Frowned on, but who's gonna know?

My Navigator is going to like this info

Xisor said:

Where was this info from? Just curious, as I've never heard it before.

The impression I got was also that the Navigator gene only passes when both parents are Navigators, but I can't recall where I read this. It's another reason why the Navigator familes are all somewhat mutated: a relatively small (initial) gene pool, leading to inbreeding.

Oh and there IS a canon source for Navigators having sex: in the short story Lacrymata, a (male) Navigator has an affair with the ship's (female) astropath. Although it all ends in tears....

From what I know of the background, a Navigator having sex with a non-Navigator wouldn't be outright forbidden. It's if this liason produces children that the real problems start.

Socially, Navigators tend to view themselves as an elite (not without justification), and would certainly look down on any coupling with a Dirt Dweller. And mainstream Imperial society might have been forced to accept the existence of Navigators, but they're still Mutants and the standard prejudices still apply. So it'll be like an inter-racial or homosexual relationship some decades back, while not outright forbidden by law there'll be strong descrimination against it.

If it's a casual fling and both are relatively discreet, there shouldn't be too many problems. PCs in Rogue Trader are high enough up the social ladder that they have some freedom to ignore a lot of social conventions. But if it becomes a serious relationship, then it's a problem. If nothing else, Navigators will doubtless practice selective breeding via arranged marriages, so at some point the PC Navigator will be expected to wed an NPC the House rulers have chosen.

Thinking about it, the arranged marriage thing is probably going to be a fun plot device to spring on a PC Navigator even if there isn't an existing relationship for it to screw up.

Silvanos said:

Short version

Sex: Yes.

Kids: No.

Longer version

I could actually see Navigator families being draconian and very controlling about the sexual lives of their members. How this would manifest in reality would probably differ from one family to next quite a lot. Some could actually be expected to refrain from any intimate contact outside Navigator "subrace" while another family might just introduce a politic of familiy-wide sterilization (after the seeds needed for the laboratory conseption would have been safely freezed into some secret genebank).

I have to say, I don't know of any sources from the background that state that Navigator/non Navigator relationships are forbidden , or that half Navigator children are forbidden, either.

With regard to relationships and sex, one would have thought that such relationships are very common. Let's say you're a male Navigator. You have a single minor mutation, and are incredibly rich. You have an arranged mariage to an incredibly ugly female Navigator (with multiple mutations) for the sole purpose of producing little navigator offspring to benefit both families. Once you've done your husbandly duties a couple of times, you're going to want to get your oats elsewhere, let's face it. And no one would blame you.

One would have thought that bonded concubines are relatively common in the retinues of Navigators of both sexes for just this reason. After all, given the vast discrepancies in the wealth of Navigators to the rest of humanity, you can bet hive worlders are queuing up to become concubines to even the freakiest Navigator.

And if children are produced from these unions, so what? Half Navigators don't carry the Navigator gene, so they'll just be "normal" humans, albeit with an increased chance of mutation. The Navigator houses aren't interested in these offspring because they haven;t got the one thing that makes them useful. I imagine they'll just be treated like illegitimate offspring have always been treated in large noble houses: packed off to the wars, the clergy or a profession. You could even represent their background as characters with the noble born background, and a 50% chance of having a Navigator mutation from the mutation chart.

(EDIT: Though I'd accept that given the Imperium's reputation for tolerance of mutation, half navigator babies born with more visible mutations might not make it out of the delivery room alive....)

If memory serves there was another Navigator/non-Navigator relationship in the Inquisition War series (although, for obvious reasons, there was no chance of offspring: it was between the male Navigator and male astropath of the Tormentum Malum ). Likewise the first book of the Daemonifuge series included a Navigator with a carnal relationship. Sadly, it was with a daemonette of Slaanesh...

As for the whole issue of children: Navigators only breed true with another Navigator, yes? That means it's a recessive gene. Siring children with a non-Navigator therefore spreads the gene around, increasing the pool of potential Navigators in the long run.
Imagine someone from House A has children with mundanes- each child is carrying one copy the Navigator gene, but none of them will be Navigators. If House B does the same, and the children of both houses are then mated, then statistically speaking 50% of their offspring will be half-Navigator (like their parents), 25% will be wholly mundane, but 25% will be Navigators . Given the amount of breeding records the various Navigator Houses have to maintain anyway, keeping track of half-breeds and various scions is probably not that much of an extra chore.

Indeed, given the decreased amount of consanguinity and greater diversity it provides to the gene-pool, I wouldn't be surprised if the breeding masters of the Navis Nobilite actually encouraged such children.

What the Imperium at large feels about such liaisons is another matter entirely. The whole "mutant bad" thing may mean official disapproval from some quarters (particularly the Ecclesiarchy), and if the offspring is visibly mutated at birth, well, I imagine Lightbringer is right that they wouldn't leave the delivery room.
That said, the amount of potential profit that could come from such a tie with a Navigator House would mean that there would probably no real shortage of people willing to play concubine for (or even marry into) the House.

Alasseo said:

Hmmm...food for thought.

Mind you, this assumes that the Navigator gene is a normal recessive gene...it could be something else more bizarre entirely. There is little knowledge about the early history of the Navigator clans, so it could be a genetically engineered unique phenomena that doesn't work like a normal recessive gene.

However, I do like your idea. It suggests that the Navigator clans would start to manipulate their own descendants, breeding them like horses or dogs for certain desirable traits. A bit like the Bene Gesserit sisterhood in Dune.

"Xenology" has a Navigator, Uncuchli Nachaas recount his encounter with the Umbra:

"During a period of tedious engagement ith some nemy vessel or another, I took the opportunity to rest. I was thus alone (but for sixty servants and twenty concubines) when I felt a peculiar presence".

So definitely, sexual relationships are permitted, though I imagine that these concubines are sterilised to prevent unwanted children.

I'm inclined to disagree with majority opinion here.

While the Navigator gene is only active in a child with double Navigator parents, the issue isn't so much the practicality as the Navigator's standing in society. Navigators are the only mutant breed in the Imperium with civil rights enshrined in Imperium-wide law. They are the only mutant breed officially tolerated, and then only because of the pure need for thier talents. A Navigator family, therefore, is probably going to indoctrinate thier children into considering relationships, let alone sex, outside the gene pool as vile. Probably more so than incest, which some families will have to to put up with if they're to continue to survive.

My point is that it's not a bastard child which is the issue, it's the interlinking of two castes that do absolutely everything they can to remain divorced from one another's power. For the sake of a momentary gain over someone a Navigator knows very vaguely, I HIGHLY doubt either party is going to be terribly interested

Make love, not war, man. And, er, hope the Xenos can be persuaded to do the same

Lightbringer said:

Clearly, she couldn't see that he was a filthy mutant ;-P

Andy

Lightbringer said:

I've cruised the fluff, and can't find ANYTHING that says this...

GM's feel free to spawn an abomination, but remember that considering how long the navigator's have been around, there are going ot be a few people carrying the recessive trait, particularly among the void born.

I'd say it depends on the navigator's house and gender.

The formula for making a new navigator is easy, but given the increased chance of mutation the chances of that child living to puberty are quite low.

Next, there are the controlled breeding programmes. While a Magesterial house might make arranged mariages, Nomadic or Shrouded houses are more likely to make temporary partnerships based on genetic compatiability, or attempting to breed in or out a particular mutation, and would try a wide variety of couplings to reduce the risk of any one gene getting too strong. Renegade houses have probably tried breeding with anything that moves, just in case.

Combined with the nature of warp-travel and the rarity of more than one navigator on a ship, a navigator in service is highly unlikely to be married. Males may be expected to 'donate' to the cause every time they run into a suitable partner. Females likely have the same orders, but given that a woman can sucessfully concieve every nine months(ish) compared to a few hours for a man they're less likely to travel. A serving female navigator is likely either sterile, or pregnant.

Now my navigator house would do away with all the messy sex and the need to have two people in the same room for a few minutes. Between puberty and active service, males donate sperm weekly and suitable females receive it surgically. Excess is frozen until someone else needs it. In vitro fertilisation is either a lost art, or a navigator baby needs a navigator womb so the women stay at home until they can't bear children any more. Babies never get to see their parents, who are busy making more.
It's not pleasant, but it is efficient. And that's the 40k way.

1)I'm not sure the fluff talks about a navigator gene, but one gene isn't going to cause you to grow a 3rd eye, have navigator powers, and be resistant to the warp. It would need to be a number of genes. As humans mix and match genes across chromosomes during egg and sperm production. It's unlikely that 2 offspring of navigators would breed a navigator.

2)It's pretty rare for a gene to be completely recessive. Given the difference between humans and navigators it's quite possible that some of the gene might be lethal.

3)It's entirely possible that a half breed could have a connection to the warp without the normal navigator protections.

In my campaign:

Navigator half breeds are very often mutated and have a higher chance of being a psyker. It's not unheard of for the Navigator houses to cross breed female psykers with Navigators to freshen up their blood lines. The offspring are generally kept under a tight veil of secrecy, and bred with Navigators. Often this takes 3 or more generations to produce a stable Navigator line. Such breeding programs done rarely, and quietly as they can produce dangerous and unpredictable psykers and mutants. Prime breeding stock of such ventures generally lives a pampered life in a hexagrammically warded cell. (To avoid the risk of daemon possesion or worse. ) Puritan Inquisitors have been known purge uncovered breeding programs, and punish Navigator houses for harboring unsanctioned psykers.

I've given this a lot of thought as I have an adventure cooked up surrounding a failed breeding project done by a renegade house.

Speaking for my campaigns...

The Navigators Gene is an entire gene sequence, and you need the whole sequence to be a Navigator. Navigator Houses are huge extended families, with a core of Navigators right at the top, but the bulk of the family taken up by the Navigators' human relations. These human relations do the gruntwork of running a House. This includes, but is not limited to, housekeeping, book keeping, contract negotiation, lore keeping, politicking (within the House and without), ship tending, and all the other day-to-day duties that Navigators cannot be bothered with because they are navigating, or training other navigators, or doing all the extra freaky things Navigators do.

These human relations have incomplete Navigator Gene sequences, and though they have a higher risk of mutation than most humans (though about the same as Void Born), they are human in every way. They are referred to as Nobilite Familia. They tend to intermarry along extended family lines (to keep the Navigator Gene in the pool, but keeping the others overall fresh) or between Houses to forge alliances and contracts. The breeding of a Nobilite Familia and a Navigator usually results in a child with a complete Navigator Gene sequence. On rare occasion, two Familias can produce viable Navigator offspring. Such omens are typically greeted with great joy. It's a good omen all round.

Lightbringer said:

I'm pretty sure Navigators have extensive harems and whatnot. However, concubines in fleet are little more than slaves and thus their offspring would be "property" of the Navigator family anyway.

Things get really interesting if male navigators wants to take a female of high social status as his partner. The thing is that while full navigator gene is rare the Navigators would not like one of their own taking the risk of spreading the gene in situation where they cannot be 100% sure that they can control the offspring... Lets play a little a game of "what-if":

What if... The male navigator got a female of influential noble house pregnant?

What if... The child would turn out to be navigator?

You just gave away the only thing that makes your family and kind rich (the navigator ability) to a group of people that not only probably hate your family to start with but also have the resources and ability to use it.... I'd say you, yoru lover and your child would probably have a very unpleasant meeting with some very unpleasant Void Born Assassins very soon.

Lightbringer said:

And indeed lore says this is the case:

Mutation or deformity is common among Navigators, although the deviations exhibited are limited to specific traits common among Navigators. Navigators tend to be tall and spindly, sometimes with pale and almost translucent skin. Other common traits include scaly skin, extremely large eyes which may lack the iris, and ill-defined facial features. Hands and feet can be ridiculously large, and are often webbed. Commonly Navigators are completely hairless. Except in the most extreme cases, a Navigator would not possess all these traits. Those born with extreme mutations might be hidden away or even killed at birth.

Polaria said:

OR you've just accidentally founded a shrouded or renegade Navigator House!

To be honest, all of this speculation is so entertaining (and potentially the basis for so many cool scenarios) that GW/FFG would be mad to clarify precisely how the Navigator gene works.

How about this for another idea: the Navigator gene is not a straightforward recessive gene, but arises from a combination of factors known only to the older and more senior Navis Nobilite houses. These ancient houses are able to control their bloodlines through meticulously kept records, interbreeding with baseline human Terran nobility (who known only to the Navigators carry the Navigator gene or some part of it) to create dynastic alliances and to guarantee pure breeding, genetically stable offspring.

Lesser houses have an incomplete understanding of the operation of the Navigator gene, thus the only way they can guarantee (or at the least increase the chances of) Navigator offspring is by breeding Navigator with Navigator. This produces navigators who are more prone to mutation, insanity etc.

This approach reconciles the different types of Navigator house in RT without creating any hard and fast rules that can create inconsistancies in the background. Plus as well it offers opportunities for all kinds of intrigue between Navigator Houses!

Dalnor Surloc said:

It should be remembered that it's highly likely that Navigators are not a natural evolution of mankind - there's a lot of evidence to suggest that they were artificially created, possibly by the Emperor during his centuries guiding mankind in secrecy. Thus, some of the assumptions about Navigator genetics should take into account that everything that makes them Navigators is probably the work of an extremely capable geneticist whose later works included the Primarchs.

Remember that the Navigators' wealth and power is based on what is essentially a monopoly, a genetic monoply in a sense. They are the only ones with the genetic potetial to be Navigators. That being the case, een if the Imperium is fine with it, individual Navigator families and even the collective of all of the families should oppose sexual relations between Navigators and normal humans, except perhaps for situations when the potential offspring are easy to control. If a Navigator can just have sex with who ever he pleases, he might be spreading his genetic material all over the galaxy. Sure, his offspring wont be Navigators, but what about their ofspring, and their offspring, and their offspring? After a few hundred years, meaning within the Navigator's lifetime, he could have thousands of descendants with varying amounts of Navigator genes, some of these descendants will breed with each other given enough time or maybe even with different Navigators if they live on planets where ships tend to dock. I time you might have Navigators popping up spontaneously all over - sure some might be killed off as mutants, but if some other powerful group in the Imperium gets their hands on even partial Navigators or those with Navigator genes, they might be able the break or threaten the Navigator's monopoly on Warp navigation.

For thise reason, Navigators are probably indoctrinated if not forced to reframe rom sex outside of specific contexts so as to prevent unwanted pregnancy. I could see the Navigators having concubines who are sterilized or perhaps, as Attila IV says, they could have tightly controlled human breeding stock. In any case, I'm sure that spreading their genetic material across the galaxy is frowned upon.

Sergeant Brother said:

Some families might even sterilze all family members after they have reached sexual maturity and deposited a sample of their genetic material, which in turn is used to create new family members through vat-insemination rather than using the grossly inaccurate and unreliable "standard way" to procreate.

That way, the matriarchs and patriarchs of these families can better insure themselves of their offspring going away and eloping with unwanted people and breeding unsanctioned hybrids.

Eugenics at it's finest.

Varnias Tybalt said:

That is a good idea. It would also allow female Navigators to actually get to the business of navigation instead of having to spend their lives as breeders. The family elders could just fertilize Navigator ova with Navigator sperm and then implant the resulting zygote into a normal human female to carry the baby Navigator, if you don't want to just use an incubator of some kind.