I think Sabine's TIE is FFG running out of ideas and I don't really appreciate that rebels will be flying TIEs. It's just against the spirit of SWs somehow. The only thing that redeems it is that it's a really cheap ship and on top of that we're unlikely to see more than 1 in any given list. As a result, it's unlikely to dominate rebel lists and will be there mostly for flavor. ARC on the other hand will take up a third or more of your budget and it will definitely be a centerpiece of your list. Such ships should be faction exclusive or else the game will become a mess.

Not Star Wars? It's unreasonable that an Empire that rules over an entire galaxy has one of its TIE Fighters captured?

Should we give Lightsaber bayonets to storm troopers because they picked up a Lightsaber?

Should the Federation side in Star Trek get a bird of prey with cloaking just because Kirk captured one?

Hyperbole. The Rebel TIE Fighter has no generics, which accurately represents the fact that there is only a handful. Way to completely miss the point.

But pick up two Rebel TIE Fighter packs and with the ones from the core set and you got all 4. So how about a hybird TIE/Headhunter Swarm? Will Rebel Swarm become the new meta?

Be happy that it's a Tie and not Lambda-Shuttle.

I think people would have accepted that more easier, but I guess FFG doesn't keep Wookies in mind when they design their game.

Imp Astromechs I think could be fun, giving the ARC something uber unique.

My main question is title. The Alliance Overhaul title doesn't make sense for an Imp ARC. What would you put in its place?

I would give it a better stat card and pilot abilities. The veteran imperial crew can just get more out of it.

Imp Astromechs I think could be fun, giving the ARC something uber unique.

My main question is title. The Alliance Overhaul title doesn't make sense for an Imp ARC. What would you put in its place?

I would give it a better stat card and pilot abilities. The veteran imperial crew can just get more out of it.

I dont see them getting more out of it. There would have to be a Clone War ARC fighter title or something....giving it something different, it would really be cool to see the 2 different tiles giving very different results to the same ship. Even if it is like a free focus or evade token or something if the ship does a green maneuver.

This whole issue could have been solved by making the Rebel Tie unique. Therefore only 1 Tie ever in a Rebel force to represent the one the Ghost crew captured.

Noooo stop diluting the factions. The Rebel Tie is an epic mistake, lets not repeat that twice.

It goes back to the oft used example: just because the Allies captured Tigers, doesn't mean they should have them in WWII games.

Depends how many tanks in the game. If there are only two or three tanks on the field then a captured Tiger could indeed harm the theme a little outside of a scenario. Twenty tanks? No issue with a captured Tiger.

So you're suggesting that for every 20 allied tanks there was a tiger? Even an arbitrary figure such as 20 tanks is completely divorced from reality. Notwithstanding training, parts and recognition issues, the figures just don't cut it.

If there were a 12 point generic then sure, I see your point, the Rebels could run a TIE swarm or a miniswarm. But they can't, they only get aces. This is not a ship where it's mechanically prudent to run a lot of them.

So how is this point valid and my point about Kirk in a Bird of Prey or Lightsaber bayonets hyperbole? The point is, aces or not, a faction is getting a ship that doesn't belong to its faction. And no mechanically it is very prudent to have TIE swarms. Impossible with this release but, as precedent shows, prudent.

Mechanically it doesn't seem to fit a spot and is unlikely to do so (as anyone who spends points in TIE/INs will tell you).

It's a very cheap illicit and crew carrier with the title and in a similar space to TIE aces without: a cheap high PS craft to round out a list.

There's cheap and then there's cheap: typically a TIE has to have an outstanding ability in order to spend the points on it and things like stealth device (howl runner). And even then, at the end of the day, it's still a tie and it will evaporate under fire.

And yes in aware of the likely BMST and Captured TIE combo. But this will likely be 14-16 points and will be spending the game not doing much. A 12 pt Z however...

I think Sabine's TIE is FFG running out of ideas and I don't really appreciate that rebels will be flying TIEs. It's just against the spirit of SWs somehow. The only thing that redeems it is that it's a really cheap ship and on top of that we're unlikely to see more than 1 in any given list. As a result, it's unlikely to dominate rebel lists and will be there mostly for flavor. ARC on the other hand will take up a third or more of your budget and it will definitely be a centerpiece of your list. Such ships should be faction exclusive or else the game will become a mess.

Not Star Wars? It's unreasonable that an Empire that rules over an entire galaxy has one of its TIE Fighters captured?

Should we give Lightsaber bayonets to storm troopers because they picked up a Lightsaber?

Should the Federation side in Star Trek get a bird of prey with cloaking just because Kirk captured one?

Yes, one bird of prey allowed and it has to take he HMS Bounty title.

And YES Stormtroopers can use lightsabers! McQuarrie had them using lightsabers and shields in his art! Why couldn't there exist specially trained saber troops?

Swtor:KOTFE has them

So if Vader in a future comic flies s captured x-wing, to get to know the enemy fighter better or something like that, should we then get Imp x-wings? No. Sabines tie is a story device but its badly represented in a game like x-wing. It would have been better suited for a mission. Now rebels can fly 4 of them in a list and its just wrong. Bad guys ties, good guys x-wing. I hope Imps in x-wing the game never get astromechs, not because they don't use them, but because from a game mechanical perspective, its nice to have something different for the factions. If Imps ever get an astromech it should be a crew card.

Hyperbole. The Rebel TIE Fighter has no generics, which accurately represents the fact that there is only a handful. Way to completely miss the point.

This whole issue could have been solved by making the Rebel Tie unique. Therefore only 1 Tie ever in a Rebel force to represent the one the Ghost crew captured.

If you squint, the ARC kind of looks like a gunboat....

So how is this point valid and my point about Kirk in a Bird of Prey or Lightsaber bayonets hyperbole? The point is, aces or not, a faction is getting a ship that doesn't belong to its faction. And no mechanically it is very prudent to have TIE swarms. Impossible with this release but, as precedent shows, prudent.

Pray, how do you plan on building a Captured TIE swarm with no generics and a maximum of four fighters?

Hyperbole. The Rebel TIE Fighter has no generics, which accurately represents the fact that there is only a handful. Way to completely miss the point.

Too bad the expansion is supposed to be representing a single specific ship, yet it still allows you to field 4 of them. So it's not accurately representing jack ****.

This whole issue could have been solved by making the Rebel Tie unique. Therefore only 1 Tie ever in a Rebel force to represent the one the Ghost crew captured.

Completely agree.

The TIE fighter is the single least unique ship in the Star Wars universe. I remember a Corran Horn quote saying it's the most common thing in the galaxy after hydrogen and stupidity.

The pack represents a captured TIE fighter. It uses the paint scheme of the most common TIE fighter in the pack, but saying that means the whole pack represents one TIE is like saying the Firespray should be unique because it was released in Slave I's paint scheme.

Yes, all the card art shows the Masterpiece, but that ship is represented by a title. Without it, the captured TIE is just a generic everyday TIE with its tracker ripped out.

And yes in aware of the likely BMST and Captured TIE combo. But this will likely be 14-16 points and will be spending the game not doing much. A 12 pt Z however...

Please direct me to the Rebel Z-95 with an illicit slot.

So you're suggesting that for every 20 allied tanks there was a tiger? Even an arbitrary figure such as 20 tanks is completely divorced from reality. Notwithstanding training, parts and recognition issues, the figures just don't cut it.

Do I actually need to participate in this conversation or are you capable of making up everything I supposedly say for me?

Since when is a single squad list representative of the exact proportions of ships in a faction's entire military? Your argument is akin to saying if you ran just T-34s in said tank game then you're claiming the Soviets had no other tanks.

This is a Wave 10 release. It's the 13th standard play ship the Rebels get. It's a drop in ocean when it comes to Rebel lists. You're not likely to see these in large numbers and when you do they're decked out in Rebel colours.

The Rebels are an insurgency, they steal Imperial stuff all the time.

So if Vader in a future comic flies s captured x-wing, to get to know the enemy fighter better or something like that, should we then get Imp x-wings?

The pack represents a captured TIE fighter. It uses the paint scheme of the most common TIE fighter in the pack, but saying that means the whole pack represents one TIE is like saying the Firespray should be unique because it was released in Slave I's paint scheme.

The difference is, the Firespray has generic pilots, because it can represent ANY Firespray.

If Sabine's TIE expansion was really intended to represent ALL captured TIE Fighters, then it would have a generic rebel pilot. It doesn't. It ONLY has unique Rebels character pilots that would ONLY ever fly Sabine's specific stolen TIE.

if you don't like your SF, how can you have any imp ARCs?

how can you have any imp ARC if you don't like your SF!?

So how is this point valid and my point about Kirk in a Bird of Prey or Lightsaber bayonets hyperbole? The point is, aces or not, a faction is getting a ship that doesn't belong to its faction. And no mechanically it is very prudent to have TIE swarms. Impossible with this release but, as precedent shows, prudent.

Pray, how do you plan on building a Captured TIE swarm with no generics and a maximum of four fighters?

Please direct me to the Rebel Z-95 with an illicit slot.

Please also direct me to the killer combos from what we've seen so far.

Do I actually need to participate in this conversation or are you capable of making up everything I supposedly say for me?

In this case you said 20. Even as far as hyperbole goes that's excessive.

Since when is a single squad list representative of the exact proportions of ships in a faction's entire military? Your argument is akin to saying if you ran just T-34s in said tank game then you're claiming the Soviets had no other tanks.

At this point you seem to be drawing at straws to justify your point.

The pack represents a captured TIE fighter. It uses the paint scheme of the most common TIE fighter in the pack, but saying that means the whole pack represents one TIE is like saying the Firespray should be unique because it was released in Slave I's paint scheme.

The difference is, the Firespray has generic pilots, because it can represent ANY Firespray.

If Sabine's TIE expansion was really intended to represent ALL captured TIE Fighters, then it would have a generic rebel pilot. It doesn't. It ONLY has unique Rebels character pilots that would ONLY ever fly Sabine's specific stolen TIE.

Counterpoint: ARC-170 and Attack Shuttle. I very much doubt the Rebels have one ARC that they all share.

No generics seems to be FFG's way of representing limited numbers. In pure rules terms it halves the maximum pilots from the cap of eight of the same ship, and on a more subtle level it discourages spam through requiring the use of the full range of named pilots.

The mechanical representation for the unique TIE is Sabine's Masterpiece. Without it, you're just flying a TIE fighter.

Yes, you could hypothetically run a list with Zeb, Ahsoka, Sabine and Rex, and if you decked out the TIEs enough you might even get to 100 points without requiring an Incom, KSE or Koensayr ship in the mix to make up the points. But it'd be a very ragtag group of captured TIEs with potentially wildly differing pilot skills, flight styles, modifications and abilities. That's far more in keeping with the Alliance's theme than the Empire's.

Furthermore, we don't have the expansion fully spoiled: the pack comes with a modification that in some manner represents the TIE's stolen nature mechanically.

Your hypocrisy is staggering. I never said that factions did not capture other vehicles. I did say that just because they did doesn't mean they should have them included.

Let's have a look, shall we?

1: "It goes back to the oft used example: just because the Allies captured Tigers, doesn't mean they should have them in WWII games." - You

2: "Depends how many tanks in the game. If there are only two or three tanks on the field then a captured Tiger could indeed harm the theme a little outside of a scenario. Twenty tanks? No issue with a captured Tiger." - Me

3: "So you're suggesting that for every 20 allied tanks there was a tiger? Even an arbitrary figure such as 20 tanks is completely divorced from reality. Notwithstanding training, parts and recognition issues, the figures just don't cut it." - You

4: "Since when is a single squad list representative of the exact proportions of ships in a faction's entire military? Your argument is akin to saying if you ran just T-34s in said tank game then you're claiming the Soviets had no other tanks." - Me

5: "Your hypocrisy is staggering. I never said that factions did not capture other vehicles. I did say that just because they did doesn't mean they should have them included." - You

Statement Two, I say that I'd have no issue with a captured Tiger tank in a game with twenty odd tanks on the field.

Statement Three you twist this into a claim that having a captured Tiger in a 20 tank Soviet squad in a wargame is claiming that the Soviets historically have a captured tank for every twenty of their own. Thus you claim that the number of each vehicle you field in a list is somehow meant to be representative of historical proportions of vehicles across the whole army.

Statement Four, I illustrate the sheer farce of this statement with a counterexample. If running one Tiger in a twenty tank Soviet list is claiming one in then Soviet tanks is a Tiger, then running twenty T-34s is claiming the Soviets had only T-34s.

Statement Five, you ignore the entirety of Statement Four save for the last seven words.

The point is, aces or not, a faction is getting a ship that doesn't belong to its faction. And no mechanically it is very prudent to have TIE swarms. Impossible with this release but, as precedent shows, prudent.

Pray, how do you plan on building a Captured TIE swarm with no generics and a maximum of four fighters?

By reading what I wrote? See bold.

What you wrote was that it was somehow a good idea to build a Captured TIE swarm with an expansion that gives no generics and a maximum of four fighters. True, you also said it was impossible, but that just contradicts yourself. How is building an impossible list a good idea?

Please direct me to the Rebel Z-95 with an illicit slot.

Please direct me to where I said that.

Sure.

"And yes in aware of the likely BMST and Captured TIE combo. But this will likely be 14-16 points and will be spending the game not doing much. A 12 pt Z however... "

How is a Z-95 meant to replace a BMST TIE without BMST?

Please also direct me to the killer combos from what we've seen so far.

I fail to see how combos for a partially spoiled ship are relevant to a discussion about how it ostensibly damages the theme of the game.

Graffitti TIE is a thing, it's happening, just accept it. Some jerks will field all four pilots in one list. That's ok, just pretend it's the early rebellion and they were running REALLY low on Pheonix Squad A-wings. Or it's a Special Mission and th rebels' cover was blown and they have to fight their way out. Justify it however you want.

I will be getting one. Just one.

Some jerks will field all four pilots in one list.

That's hardly jerk-like: the Rebels used whatever they could get their hands on.

There is only one true sin in X-Wing and that's this:

I know right? Rebels are gettin illicit slots. Lets get some love for the Imperial Astromechs!

I use 'em all the time on my wonderful trio of Decimators, and Gon-Gon-Zillahs and my one Raider... YAH!

I'm all for Imperial Astromechs if it means getting BT-1:

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/t_original/oa57meudcxwej14ics9x.png

problem with imp mechs from a design perspective is you're basically releasing another title card for the ARC as it would be the only ship that would use imp mechs

unless there's some obscure EU ship I'm not considering

problem with imp mechs from a design perspective is you're basically releasing another title card for the ARC as it would be the only ship that would use imp mechs

unless there's some obscure EU ship I'm not considering

7B and Eta-2 are more Jedi ships than straight Republic. After the formation of the Empire they started to manufacture V-wings without astromechs: the same would probably be true of ARCs if they continued to manufacture them.

The ARC doesn't necessarily need an astromech slot anyway: ships without equipped astromechs aren't flying without them any more than a YT without Gunner has nobody manning the guns: it's just not an astromech that contributes in any special way.

Noooo stop diluting the factions. The Rebel Tie is an epic mistake, lets not repeat that twice.

I agree 100%. I picked up the Ghost just to have at least one of everything, but I may not get the Rebel Tie just to prove a point that it was a mistake.

How is this a *thing*? It's just one ship - a common one at that. It's hardly going to result in a mass of ships available across the factions. #internetdrama