There's no secret that some of the earlier figures in skirmish were over costed or their abilities are underwhelming in gameplay.

Since I play at home mainly with family I've thought about adjusting some of the numbers or printing out cards for home use, so some of my nicely painted miniatures get used a bit more. I'm wondering if this has been done before, but also if you guys wouldn't mind helping me balance some of these early edition figures.

Fenn 7

Jyn 4

Gaarkhan

Han Solo 7

Chewbacca 12

IG88 9

Boba Fett 10

Dengar 5

ATST/Gen Weiss 11/12

Darth Vader 15

RGC 12-13

What do you think? Without changing the abilities or stats dramatically are those point costs fair?

You don't have a price for gaarkhan and then I have to ask what people think of diala and whether she's still a little overcosted (hp is my main concern with her because she has gained more utility with the new force user cards)

Also, I'd say chewy for more than 10 is too much because he's still a single attack in a round. Vader at 15 is hard to know. I think if he was 15 and had speed 5. Or some way to do the double move like Jedi Luke and still have brutality as his free "heroic" like Jedi Luke.

I do wish they would just errata the costs on the heroes/wave 1 guys and make them more balanced either with points/health/more attacks whatever.

Yes that's around what I'd say for most of them. If suggest Diala at 5, and IG-88 at 8. Gaarkhan maybe at 6 or so.

After that, I think it's just a matter of feeling them out with practice.

Another way to test it might be this: I think the Inquisior is probably a good indication of what a unique piece should look like at 9pts (that is, equal to the popular elite stormtroopers who are also 9), so you could try to figure out which pieces need to cost more than him and which need to cost less than him. Then go from there with specific costings.

Heres what Ive done.

Core Set:

Jyn 4

Fenn 8

Gaarkhan 6

Diala 6

Darth Vader 12

Han Solo 8

Chewbacca 11

Royal Guard Champion 11

AT-ST 10

General Weiss 12

IG-88 8

Twin Shadows:

Biv 6

Saska 4

Kayn Somos 8

Hoth:

Dengar 6

General Sorin 6

Seems to make them a bit more legit IMO.

~D

I think you're going to have problems if you put Vader at 12 points... he may not be great, but 12 points is nuts.

Vader is really tough, if he can get close with officers, he can kill two guys a turn. There's a lot of movement 4 guys, if they have to double move they're not shooting back. Movement 5 is really fast. RGC is really good as is, he just costs a bit high 1-2 pts

I like diala, her health is a liability for her cost.

HoodieDM hits most of them pretty close I think., thanks for the post. Man I love biv and saska, but what were they thinking skirmish wise for them?

I think you're going to have problems if you put Vader at 12 points... he may not be great, but 12 points is nuts.

~D

I think you're going to have problems if you put Vader at 12 points... he may not be great, but 12 points is nuts.

To be honest, why is that any different than new Luke?

~D

Vader is still more powerful than the new Luke, I think, though he is probably more difficult to use effectively. He does more damage and is much harder to kill.

While I don't think Vader should be costed as low as 12 points, I do think 18 is over-costed. I would just put him around 15 points. That might not be quite right, but I'm pretty sure 12 would be too low.

5th after Swiss (5-1) at uk nationals implies Sorin is fine now with adv comms. I don't feel he's particularly overcosted for what he can add now in a list built around him

5th after Swiss (5-1) at uk nationals implies Sorin is fine now with adv comms. I don't feel he's particularly overcosted for what he can add now in a list built around him

The list is strong now because there are several maps with Locked Doors you can shoot to Focus up round 1. He could still probably be 1 point cheaper, but will get better with new droids and vehicles in the future.

Yea agreed, I can't wait for the jet packs personally!

Going to play some fun lists now nationals is over (6 officers 2 bantha anyone?!?) Then back to Sorin once Jabba hits

I think you're going to have problems if you put Vader at 12 points... he may not be great, but 12 points is nuts.

To be honest, why is that any different than new Luke?

~D

Vader is still more powerful than the new Luke, I think, though he is probably more difficult to use effectively. He does more damage and is much harder to kill.

While I don't think Vader should be costed as low as 12 points, I do think 18 is over-costed. I would just put him around 15 points. That might not be quite right, but I'm pretty sure 12 would be too low.

Exactly, I was thinking 14 or 15. Personally I lean more toward 14, but 15 if he had an Attachment card that allowed him to clear a condition (Stun!!!) at the cost of a Strain or something.

Vader in a squad with Zillo Technique...lol...dude, that would be hilarious!

I'm not sure that General Weiss needs to cost 12. I used him in the VIASL (Vassal skirmish league) for a season and he was great. I picked up the idea from Brian Vandergalien (our Champion, btw!) and went with it for several months. This was earlier this year when the Bantha was everywhere, because Weiss eats Banthas for breakfast. He was thinking of opening his own restaurant: "Bantha Burgers & More" but he realized that he wouldn't be able to afford Obamacare for his employees so he dropped the idea.

Weiss, along with eStormtrooper x2, is a lot of survivability. He has the Endless Reserves card, which is basically an extra Reinforcements card that never runs out, which means that it's very, very difficult for your opponent to finish off your eStormtroopers, which therefore allows you to play a little bit more aggressively with them than normal. Furthermore, Weiss can move 2 of those more durable Stormtroopers for a single action on his turn (to get out of trouble or to move further forward to position for a tactical strike). Weiss also has the tremendous Blast 3 ability. Play him with Targeting Computer, just do it; you're welcome. I used an eOfficer to round out the squad for the extra big attack each round, but other players used 2x rOfficer and would probably use Zillo Technique for the last point of the squad.

However, this was before the Inquistor and Obiwan (and Davith), who are all very effective pieces with the Pierce 3 ability to cut right through his double-Black defense dice. I'm not sure he's worthwhile anymore, but he was great for me for a while there!

Yea agreed, I can't wait for the jet packs personally!

Going to play some fun lists now nationals is over (6 officers 2 bantha anyone?!?) Then back to Sorin once Jabba hits

Trying to fit a General's Ranks on a bantha and then unshakeable/zillo/and or rule by fear may be worth dropping 1-2 regular officers or one bantha and filling in with some other stuff

Yea agreed, I can't wait for the jet packs personally!

Going to play some fun lists now nationals is over (6 officers 2 bantha anyone?!?) Then back to Sorin once Jabba hits

Trying to fit a General's Ranks on a bantha and then unshakeable/zillo/and or rule by fear may be worth dropping 1-2 regular officers or one bantha and filling in with some other stuff

Just remember that general's ranks don't work with the movement from regular officers, only elite ones.

Yea agreed, I can't wait for the jet packs personally!

Going to play some fun lists now nationals is over (6 officers 2 bantha anyone?!?) Then back to Sorin once Jabba hits

Trying to fit a General's Ranks on a bantha and then unshakeable/zillo/and or rule by fear may be worth dropping 1-2 regular officers or one bantha and filling in with some other stuff

Just remember that general's ranks don't work with the movement from regular officers, only elite ones.

I see what you mean now. Never caught that...that's lame. Only gives extra two when "perform(ing) a MOVE that's not on your turn" not just getting movement points not on your turn. Well, it's still nice with the elites but may not be worth trying to pull off.

IG-88 can be very effective currently. Overcosted, yes, but I don't think that it's quite as drastic as being 4 points over. Perhaps 10 points for him. 9, if his speed was reduced to 4.

IG-88 can be very effective currently. Overcosted, yes, but I don't think that it's quite as drastic as being 4 points over. Perhaps 10 points for him. 9, if his speed was reduced to 4.

I think a good point adjustments should be made by comparing internal (vs. other units in same faction) and external (vs. other units in different faction), both aim to answer "why would I want to take X when I can take Y?" and the answer should be "it depends on the situation"

external: for final IG stat I looked at eStorm, eISB, Leia, and Wookies. For example, IG should have about the same durability as Leia, (sometimes) able to kill eISB, can outrun Wookie Warriors, have about the same killing power as Gaarkhan, but should be beaten by eStorm or Luke

internal: This one's easier due to Bossk: both got +1Block, +2Acc, Bossk got auto +2dmg and ~Pierce2, IG got ~recover3 ~+2dmg. Both can perform multiple attacks (sort of, Bossk's IF is not an attack action), and Bossk also got regen so no trouble w/ stun, but hey IG runs 5+black defense & Bossk runs 4+white defense, so that makes it "it depends"

my first wave change was mostly Imperial units since I'm always the Empire in our campaign, did some playtesting and it was mostly trial/error/tinkering (ex. tried to make Han speed 5, then discovered "Fly Solo" in campaign would be broken since you would only have like 1 round to kill him)

IG-88 can be very effective currently. Overcosted, yes, but I don't think that it's quite as drastic as being 4 points over. Perhaps 10 points for him. 9, if his speed was reduced to 4.

I think a good point adjustments should be made by comparing internal (vs. other units in same faction) and external (vs. other units in different faction), both aim to answer "why would I want to take X when I can take Y?" and the answer should be "it depends on the

my first wave change was mostly Imperial units since I'm always the Empire in our campaign, did some playtesting and it was mostly trial/error/tinkering (ex. tried to make Han speed 5, then discovered "Fly Solo" in campaign would be broken since you would only have like 1 round to kill him)

I wouldn't reduce his speed

Inherently this is the problem, the deployment cards were designed for two different games. In the beginning, I believe the skirmish side of it was the lesser of the two, almost an afterthought. Figures designed for campaign have abilities costed as such, but since there was only one deployment card, they didn't adjust the cost of those figures in skirmish. Han may very well be worth 12 pts in campaign, but in skirmish, he's really only worth 7-8. I think this probably continued up into the twin shadows campaign, finally, when new designers came on board, they started having someone do skirmish, for skirmish sake. Designs started to slowly improve.

You guys talk about figure-less updates/expansions for campaign all the time, I would be allover a 2.0 update deck for deployment cards from the first 3 waves.

IG-88 can be very effective currently. Overcosted, yes, but I don't think that it's quite as drastic as being 4 points over. Perhaps 10 points for him. 9, if his speed was reduced to 4.

I think a good point adjustments should be made by comparing internal (vs. other units in same faction) and external (vs. other units in different faction), both aim to answer "why would I want to take X when I can take Y?" and the answer should be "it depends on the situation"

external: for final IG stat I looked at eStorm, eISB, Leia, and Wookies. For example, IG should have about the same durability as Leia, (sometimes) able to kill eISB, can outrun Wookie Warriors, have about the same killing power as Gaarkhan, but should be beaten by eStorm or Luke

internal: This one's easier due to Bossk: both got +1Block, +2Acc, Bossk got auto +2dmg and ~Pierce2, IG got ~recover3 ~+2dmg. Both can perform multiple attacks (sort of, Bossk's IF is not an attack action), and Bossk also got regen so no trouble w/ stun, but hey IG runs 5+black defense & Bossk runs 4+white defense, so that makes it "it depends"

my first wave change was mostly Imperial units since I'm always the Empire in our campaign, did some playtesting and it was mostly trial/error/tinkering (ex. tried to make Han speed 5, then discovered "Fly Solo" in campaign would be broken since you would only have like 1 round to kill him)

Consider me convinced!