I think it's a neat idea to have hybrids, because it opens the way for a lot of different class flavors. A Paladin wouldn't fit into a healer or a warrior but it fits perfectly into a Warrior/Healer multi class. I think ultimately however, these expansions are for more tiles, campaigns, and new monsters, which bring huge variety to the gameplay.

I think it's a neat idea to have hybrids, because it opens the way for a lot of different class flavors. A Paladin wouldn't fit into a healer or a warrior but it fits perfectly into a Warrior/Healer multi class. I think ultimately however, these expansions are for more tiles, campaigns, and new monsters, which bring huge variety to the gameplay.

I would argue that a Paladin should be a Healer-to-Warrior hybrid, rather than Warrior-to-Healer, on the basis that Paladins are still martial warriors, whereas no healer class really is. The only issue I see is how many healer heroes would fit with Paladin. Avric Albright, Andira Runehand, Jonas the Kind, for sure, but that's about it. There's arguably more warriors that'd fit the bill, such as Lord Hawthorne, Sir Valadir, Trenloe the Strong, Reynhart the Worthy and Syndrael.

But either way, I'd argue Healer-to-Warrior for a Paladin hybrid. Would probably pair pretty nicely with Champion, Knight or Marshal. Bonus points if you can sancity your dog as a Beastmaster.

For Warrior-to-Healer? ...Warpriest? I'm thinking something that gives a lot of bonuses for adjacency or nearness, like auras. Or something.

I have a feeling we're rapidly leaving the topic.

Paladin for example could have been a healer archetype with some skills oriented into fighting.

No need to mash component as they did ... !

Thoses hybrids classes are just a lack of ideas from FFG, no more !

Augur Grissom would make a great paladin, by taking the Champion or the Knight class, maybe even the Marshall.

Augur Grissom would make a great paladin, by taking the Champion or the Knight class, maybe even the Marshall.

The Marshal will potentially present an interesting balance issue. Previously, only 1 Warrior had a Knowledge of 4 (Alys Raine, who was literally made for the class) and everyone else has 3 or lower.

There are, however, 3 mages with a Knowledge of 5, a ton of mages with a Knowledge of 4, and at least 2 healers with a Knowledge of 4.

Master Thorn, Leorik of the Book, or Highmage Quellen will all be able to be Battlemage-Marshals, using By the Book , to shut down the vast majority of overlord cards, for example. Get a +1 Knowledge from somewhere and you literally cannot fail against any basic card. Brother Gehrin (Knowledge 4) could make a very powerful Healer-to-Warrior Marshal, too. Hopefully he'll never have to pass a Strength (1) test, though.

I must say that the idea of a mage using By the book with 5 in book value will be no fun and a real threat to the OL and his gameplay.

So, as long as this card has 50% of working/loosing, it's still fun to be played, but not more.

And i'm almost sure that many of hybrids class will create many of thoses troubles.

You may be right. The introduction of the hybrid classes created a whole lot of new possibilities (a fact I really like) but there may be ways to abuse the system. A mage as a marshal might be such a thing.

Still, I want to play with and against them before I judge. Right now, I get the feeling that the new system creates more interesting possibilities than trouble. If the the troublesome parts turn out to be really minor, I wouldn't mind as they could simply be house ruled. Just as some groups don't allow Logan Lashely as a Treasure Hunter, some may choose to rule out a 5+ int mage as a marshal (or only the card by the book).

However, I am of the opinion that a well designed game system shouldn't need such tweaks and if too many are required the whole game system is in question. But I believe that the game designers of Descent know of theses issues as well and haven't overlooked them. They are obvious enough.

I'm actually looking forward to the discussions and reports by players once CtR is released and some campaigns have been played.

This is good healthy discussion.... So how about FFG release the dang game so we can play test and continue health discussing...

The big difference is that a video game can easily been udpated.

A boardgame, it's really harder, and reprinting cards needs to be bought by players ... Nothing's really free

I think FFG is aiming for the Marvel vs Capcom strategy of game balance: Everything is so chaotically broken and imba, it settles into its own kind of balance.

That's what will happen when your multi-class feature means you can combine any deck from category A with any deck from category B, each one sporting 4-5 decks for like 20-25 possible deck combinations. There is no way we won't get some power decks.

This is good healthy discussion.... So how about FFG release the dang game so we can play test and continue health discussing...

On that note and on topic, I've been in contact with a Swedish online retailer that said they'd get it in on September 1st, after making a different order that I wanted them to hold if they got Chains that Rust (and/or Guardians of Deephall, because they didn't have any copies of it in) in within the month (to save on shipping).

And if a Swedish retailer gets it in on the 1st of September (or plans to, anyway, you never know) I think it's safe to assume that most should have it by the end of August.

So set your calenders, peeps!

That's great news! Since we are closing in on the end of August I'd like to be positive and hope for a release in the states sometime next week!

The big difference is that a video game can easily been udpated.

A boardgame, it's really harder, and reprinting cards needs to be bought by players ... Nothing's really free

uuhhh.. Errata?

The big difference is that a video game can easily been udpated.

A boardgame, it's really harder, and reprinting cards needs to be bought by players ... Nothing's really free

uuhhh.. Errata?

Errata can only really do so much.

Errata isn't easily distributed to the mass of players that don't frequent the forums or company website. Not to mention that you then have to print it off and read the rule book and then contradict the rule book with an Errata page, which in and of itself is a pain in the ass. I understand it can be done, but it is not the same nor as easy to push a patch for a video game and simply overwrite the old version and force everyone onto the same page with a new version.

In case anyone didn't notice, last week they changed the status of the expansion to shipping now. which usually for me anyhow means it takes 7-10 days to hit my FLGS.

Errata isn't easily distributed to the mass of players that don't frequent the forums or company website. Not to mention that you then have to print it off and read the rule book and then contradict the rule book with an Errata page, which in and of itself is a pain in the ass. I understand it can be done, but it is not the same nor as easy to push a patch for a video game and simply overwrite the old version and force everyone onto the same page with a new version.

For Arkam Horror, there is a very nice App which provides sheets for heroes, guardians etc and the Ancient Ones. This way, you can get rid of the token-mess. And the main thing: this app contains also the rules and you can add/remove rules which have been added by a certain expansion by clicking on a button. Also, the rules which have been added by a certain expansion are colored differently for each expansion. A similar App could be written for Descent as well. This would solve the distribution problem for the new rules/errata and would be very handy. Also, they could add a button to set the version of the rules. I would love to see something like that for Descent as well.

Oh I would love to be able to track damage to each monster mini via app, rather than mess around trying to stack little hearts somewhere next to each mini on a crowded tile!

True, but an App-update would come automatically. Just more convenient and with an electronic version, you can replace reworked/clarified rules.

True, but an App-update would come automatically. Just more convenient and with an electronic version, you can replace reworked/clarified rules.

True.But that you also need to check an app periodically. It could give you a push notification, but that could also be an email alert.

Errata isn't easily distributed to the mass of players that don't frequent the forums or company website. Not to mention that you then have to print it off and read the rule book and then contradict the rule book with an Errata page, which in and of itself is a pain in the ass. I understand it can be done, but it is not the same nor as easy to push a patch for a video game and simply overwrite the old version and force everyone onto the same page with a new version.

For Arkam Horror, there is a very nice App which provides sheets for heroes, guardians etc and the Ancient Ones. This way, you can get rid of the token-mess. And the main thing: this app contains also the rules and you can add/remove rules which have been added by a certain expansion by clicking on a button. Also, the rules which have been added by a certain expansion are colored differently for each expansion. A similar App could be written for Descent as well. This would solve the distribution problem for the new rules/errata and would be very handy. Also, they could add a button to set the version of the rules. I would love to see something like that for Descent as well.

This is the kind of stuff I'd like for Mansions of Madness and Descent. Not replacing a player with an automated app. Man, I fear for the future of Descent at the moment, with an eventual 3rd edition.

I hope it is still some years to come before a third edition. I mean, they are still releasing new expansions. They can't make all the people buy their stuff and then release a third edition. (I know, they can )

This is good healthy discussion.... So how about FFG release the dang game so we can play test and continue health discussing...

On that note and on topic, I've been in contact with a Swedish online retailer that said they'd get it in on September 1st, after making a different order that I wanted them to hold if they got Chains that Rust (and/or Guardians of Deephall, because they didn't have any copies of it in) in within the month (to save on shipping).

And if a Swedish retailer gets it in on the 1st of September (or plans to, anyway, you never know) I think it's safe to assume that most should have it by the end of August.

So set your calenders, peeps!

Swedes are great mariners....

Maybe their boat took a shortcut, caught a fair wind, didn't get marooned in the Sargasso?