While I love the cartoon, it's been 8 months, and I can only tilt at a windmill so many times.

I'm going back to historicals and more traditional minis games. WarmaHordes is looking good, and I've been getting people interested in Saga again. Facesmashing with over-sized weapons (or beasties) and shields is more my thing I guess...

You are playing for ******* 8 months and still have no idea what palp aces, wolfpacks, Brobots or chihuahuas means? Yeah, you suck. And you should go back to your non-competitive "traditional" mini games which hand out tournament point and stars based on how pretty you painted your minis.

X-Wing in a competitive environment is not for you and I actually understand everyone in your store who does not want to play with the middle aged "forever noob" guy. And I am saying this in your best interest, because your attitude is simply not fitting for a game which requires a significant amount of thought in the list building stage and on the table as well. It is just not for you.

Bye.

PS. You are not tilting a windmill, that would suggest efford. You are sitting on your thumbs for 8 months and are not really invested into anything

Son, the adults are talking. I'm glad you've got nothing better to do for 8 months then to play a game. But some of us have lives, responsibilities, etc. When you grow up, you'll understand.

While I love the cartoon, it's been 8 months, and I can only tilt at a windmill so many times.

I'm going back to historicals and more traditional minis games. WarmaHordes is looking good, and I've been getting people interested in Saga again. Facesmashing with over-sized weapons (or beasties) and shields is more my thing I guess...

You are playing for ******* 8 months and still have no idea what palp aces, wolfpacks, Brobots or chihuahuas means? Yeah, you suck. And you should go back to your non-competitive "traditional" mini games which hand out tournament point and stars based on how pretty you painted your minis.

X-Wing in a competitive environment is not for you and I actually understand everyone in your store who does not want to play with the middle aged "forever noob" guy. And I am saying this in your best interest, because your attitude is simply not fitting for a game which requires a significant amount of thought in the list building stage and on the table as well. It is just not for you.

Bye.

PS. You are not tilting a windmill, that would suggest efford. You are sitting on your thumbs for 8 months and are not really invested into anything

Son, the adults are talking. I'm glad you've got nothing better to do for 8 months then to play a game. But some of us have lives, responsibilities, etc. When you grow up, you'll understand.

I think I kinda understand where you're coming from. Not so much in terms of your local "community" (fortunately, the players at the local store are a great bunch of people and are in general keen to offer advice, play, point out what you're doing right, wrong, etc.), but in terms of finding the time to figure everything out or, just plain and simply, fitting a game one evening. I have the exact same problem, and I get lucky if I manage to squeeze the odd game once every other week.

Having said that and considering that you don't have that large of a collection (as far as I could understand it), why not follow on with some of the advice from the other users, before giving up entirely? Maybe have a go with the benchmarking tool someone put up there, research some of the podcasts and hear what people have to say, familiarize with the various "meta" lists or just browse through what you might want to fly in the future, go on youtube and watch a couple of games, that sort of thing. At least for me that keeps my interest in the game and still makes me think about it, theorycraft squads and lists and then, eventually, get to try that out every now and then.

Anyway, just my two cents.

Take care, mate.

For me at least it is finding a group of people that simply want to play casually. Work on your skills then go back to head to head with them.

A lot of war games are won or lost in your OB (Order of Battle, squad make up) and deployment. X-Wing isn't any different and many don't realize this thinking that is is just fighters in space. X-Wing lets you build your squad and knowing how ships and upgrades work together are very important. Even a world class war gamer will often have zero chance against even an average X-Wing player unless they know the synergies. This fact is exaggerated in X-Wing, and similar war games, because it is played at the squad level and doesn't have 20 plus units. Coordinating 30 generics units is far different than having 3 aces that have abilities that benefit each other. There is no recon, there is no artillery, there are fighters and fighters that support fighters. Side note with shuttles and crew we do see more support).

The second similarity is in deployment. X-Wing not only allows you to deploy your ships, as most war games, but it also allows you to deploy the terrain you're engaging the enemy in. You must know how you wish to engage, which gets back to your OB, to know how to place your asteroids.

Like you I work 40+ hours a week. I'm happy to get a game in once every few weeks and X-Wing isn't the only game I play. I don't have the time to learn all of the build synergies. Even if I build my list from the net, coordinating a small squad the unique abilities is something that simply may not simply be 'oh yeah that's how they work'. Soontir Fel is a good example for me. I thought the ability 'Push the Limit' was terrible. Why would you want to stress your best Ace. Later I saw how people stressed and cleared stress every turn. So my simple build was laughable. Now Soontir's standard load out includes: Royal Guard; Autothrusters; Stealth; Push the Limit. There is simply no way a new player would know that. Additionally against an equal point build of anything else without similar synergies then there is no way that player could ever win.

So in summary OB (Order of Battle; Squad Building) and Deployment (Setup) are more important in a war game that uses a small squad size of which X-Wing is one. Sometimes they, OB and Deployment, can be more important than years of war game experience.

Of course another option, and my personal favorite, is to play casual, play epic and play with generics. The game has a completely different feel if you do that and can be extremely fun.

While I love the cartoon, it's been 8 months, and I can only tilt at a windmill so many times. I'm going back to historicals and more traditional minis games. WarmaHordes is looking good, and I've been getting people interested in Saga again. Facesmashing with over-sized weapons (or beasties) and shields is more my thing I guess...

You are playing for ******* 8 months and still have no idea what palp aces, wolfpacks, Brobots or chihuahuas means? Yeah, you suck. And you should go back to your non-competitive "traditional" mini games which hand out tournament point and stars based on how pretty you painted your minis.X-Wing in a competitive environment is not for you and I actually understand everyone in your store who does not want to play with the middle aged "forever noob" guy. And I am saying this in your best interest, because your attitude is simply not fitting for a game which requires a significant amount of thought in the list building stage and on the table as well. It is just not for you.Bye.PS. You are not tilting a windmill, that would suggest efford. You are sitting on your thumbs for 8 months and are not really invested into anything.

Not cool. Where's JBR7 when we need a "BAD POST" gif most?

I hate this aspect of the forum.

While I love the cartoon, it's been 8 months, and I can only tilt at a windmill so many times.

I'm going back to historicals and more traditional minis games. WarmaHordes is looking good, and I've been getting people interested in Saga again. Facesmashing with over-sized weapons (or beasties) and shields is more my thing I guess...

You are playing for ******* 8 months and still have no idea what palp aces, wolfpacks, Brobots or chihuahuas means? Yeah, you suck. And you should go back to your non-competitive "traditional" mini games which hand out tournament point and stars based on how pretty you painted your minis.

X-Wing in a competitive environment is not for you and I actually understand everyone in your store who does not want to play with the middle aged "forever noob" guy. And I am saying this in your best interest, because your attitude is simply not fitting for a game which requires a significant amount of thought in the list building stage and on the table as well. It is just not for you.

Bye.

PS. You are not tilting a windmill, that would suggest efford. You are sitting on your thumbs for 8 months and are not really invested into anything

Son, the adults are talking. I'm glad you've got nothing better to do for 8 months then to play a game. But some of us have lives, responsibilities, etc. When you grow up, you'll understand.

The prototype answer for lazy people without any dedication. Makes me wonder why you complain about losing, you do not have time to do your 1 hour homework to get an idea about the meta and how it works, so you do not have time to win or lose anyway as you simply don't play.

Sarcasm aside: My wife is pulling up currently an insane 100-hour week and still found time for few hours of x-wing per week and knows the meta. And we play for like 4 months, so I really can not stand such lame excuses. Especially when it is totally fine to just say that you don't feel like putting effort into it. That is fine. It is just a hobby, it supposed to be leisure time and enjoyable. So back to the games which are more enjoyable for you.

I'm an old school ancients/medieval wargamer, and in this game, it is to my detriment. I know that I lack a lot of experience with a lot of the ships, but I simply don't have enough down time to explore ALL of the ships available and don't have the spare cash to buy more ships frequently.

WfB player here: the game is actually CLOSER to the FB "boxes" than you possibly imagine. It's just a game of constant motion "boxes" game

The main thing is to understand the speed and vector of engagement.

Nobody needs "all" the ships. And nobody surely cares about proxying a card or two outside regional and higher levels.

There have been reports of XXE rosters winning.

Game surely has no "self-sufficient" expansions, that's the business model.

But you might need just 2-3 expansions and you're good to go. You just need to break the apathy and accept the challenge.

Alright. Hammer and anvil. Here is a list for you. (It has Corran. Cause I love him)

Biggs R4D6 IA

Y-wing BTLA4 TLT R3A2

Corran VI FCS R2-D2 Flechettes Torpedo Hull Upgrade

Biggs and stress hog setup in middle and slow roll. Corran is you medium cavalry and troublshoots. Flank against some enemies, but with Biggs can stay in the center and fly a block formation into the middle. Goal is to get Corran to endgame. Doublestress helps against aces. You have okay capes against torpedoes scouts becauseof R4D6 Biggs. Flechettes can help against aces. Biggest weakness is against swarms with crackshot and double VCX with abt

While I love the cartoon, it's been 8 months, and I can only tilt at a windmill so many times. I'm going back to historicals and more traditional minis games. WarmaHordes is looking good, and I've been getting people interested in Saga again. Facesmashing with over-sized weapons (or beasties) and shields is more my thing I guess...

You are playing for ******* 8 months and still have no idea what palp aces, wolfpacks, Brobots or chihuahuas means? Yeah, you suck. And you should go back to your non-competitive "traditional" mini games which hand out tournament point and stars based on how pretty you painted your minis.X-Wing in a competitive environment is not for you and I actually understand everyone in your store who does not want to play with the middle aged "forever noob" guy. And I am saying this in your best interest, because your attitude is simply not fitting for a game which requires a significant amount of thought in the list building stage and on the table as well. It is just not for you.Bye.PS. You are not tilting a windmill, that would suggest efford. You are sitting on your thumbs for 8 months and are not really invested into anything.

Not cool. Where's JBR7 when we need a "BAD POST" gif most?

I hate this aspect of the forum.

You mean that honest parts? It not like being good or sucking at X-Wing makes you a better or worse human being. He does not have time to spend on the meta, list building nor really playing either. The game is has complexity creep and demands understanding the meta on competitive level. He is not willing to spend a small amount of dollars into those minis to have a collection big enough for epic either, which is a more casual friendly format. In the end the game is just not for him. Should I tell him to keep trying when this is not enjoyable for him? Or do you want me to sugar coat it for him, but still tell him to play something else again? He wants to win, but does not know the game. Either he needs to invest more into the game or he needs to accept that he ain't good and never will be good at it. The meta evolves faster than he could ever hope to keep up. There was zero hostility in my post. I just said it how I see it.

If that is a bad post for you? *shrugs* Ok.

This topic is a HeyChadwick special, lol.

Ha! This is EXACTLY what I thought when I read the OP. Man......so many things to say.....I might take it to PM for the most part, but I think there is a lot to talk about overall.

The game wasn't always like this. It used to actually have ships that flew at each other and shot at each other. It's called jousting in this game and the archetype of jouster is utterly useless in the latest game meta. If you look at Wave 9 then you see that FFG understands that PTL Arc Dodgers are too powerful and need to be taken down a notch. The game needs to turn back to jousting. In fact, the ultra competitive Mynock Squadron was just talking about how they missed this aspect of the game. The whole feeling of the game is different than it used to be.

As the competitive game stands now, you have to build a hard list to even compete. Most ships and upgrades are utterly terrible and you can only fly a set standard of a few lists if you want to be competitive. You end up playing the same 3-5 lists in tournaments in all day long events. Overall, I find it tedious and non-fulfilling. There are other ways to play the game. The majority of people that you meet in game stores are all tournament players. I've known a lot of people that aren't that have gotten turned off from the game for many of the same reasons you mention here. I have talked to a lot of these people. There are other ways to play the game. My advice is to find other ways to play. Maybe you can "get gud" and "fly better", but you won't really be satisfied with the game overall.

I'll send a PM.

While I love the cartoon, it's been 8 months, and I can only tilt at a windmill so many times.

I'm going back to historicals and more traditional minis games. WarmaHordes is looking good, and I've been getting people interested in Saga again. Facesmashing with over-sized weapons (or beasties) and shields is more my thing I guess...

You are playing for ******* 8 months and still have no idea what palp aces, wolfpacks, Brobots or chihuahuas means? Yeah, you suck. And you should go back to your non-competitive "traditional" mini games which hand out tournament point and stars based on how pretty you painted your minis.

X-Wing in a competitive environment is not for you and I actually understand everyone in your store who does not want to play with the middle aged "forever noob" guy. And I am saying this in your best interest, because your attitude is simply not fitting for a game which requires a significant amount of thought in the list building stage and on the table as well. It is just not for you.

Bye.

PS. You are not tilting a windmill, that would suggest efford. You are sitting on your thumbs for 8 months and are not really invested into anything

Son, the adults are talking. I'm glad you've got nothing better to do for 8 months then to play a game. But some of us have lives, responsibilities, etc. When you grow up, you'll understand.

The prototype answer for lazy people without any dedication. Makes me wonder why you complain about losing, you do not have time to do your 1 hour homework to get an idea about the meta and how it works, so you do not have time to win or lose anyway as you simply don't play.

Sarcasm aside: My wife is pulling up currently an insane 100-hour week and still found time for few hours of x-wing per week and knows the meta. And we play for like 4 months, so I really can not stand such lame excuses. Especially when it is totally fine to just say that you don't feel like putting effort into it. That is fine. It is just a hobby, it supposed to be leisure time and enjoyable. So back to the games which are more enjoyable for you.

I hate this **** attitude. The dude is asking for some feedback and opinions. If you want to be a **** about it, dont waste your time typing a response people will not read. OP has said the place he tried to go to were a bunch of c**** and wouldnt teach anything, maybe you are from the same place? If knowing idioms about a game of plastic Starships is important to you, then bravo mate, your shiny star is in the mail. It makes me laugh when people talk about dedication to a table top game. Something so insignificant in the scheme of things it's farcical. If the OP doesnt want to play anymore, who the hell are you to say otherwise? Do I think they are giving up too early? yes I do, but I am not going to denigrate a person over a game.

i think youre just in a bad area for xwing.

Hyper competitive playstyle tends to siphon the fun out of any game, even xwing. But thats no excuse to flatout not play you because you arent someone theyve known for the past 2 years or you have a small collection. Hell, the fact that they refuse to play such a person tells me they are terrible at adapting and only face the meta lists so they dont have to adapt. Ive beaten my local "cutthroat players" with unorthodox lists purely because they didnt know how to react. Im known for doing that stuff lol.....

Im willing to bet one of your issues from bouncing from other wargames into xwing is the method xwing plays is unique and weird. It took me forever to get used to the movement templates (still get whacked by the 3bank alot...), and flying right is usually vastly more important than the list itself. The tactics in this game are unique, and a lot of the upgrades seem insane at first until you learn to fly right. Doing the head-on strat like you prefer, or Jousting as its called, is slowly coming back into the meta but this game is largely about avoiding getting shot at all rather than banking on green dice or raw bulk. My TIE Phantom has 4 green dice when cloaked and usually has a focus, i still avoid any and all arcs if i can even from a lowly awing because theyre so fragile a single bad roll can bite you in the butt hard.

For the record, flying meta vs meta is NOT MANDATORY despite what others say. Palpaces, uboats, crackswarm, dengaroo, dash + 1 are all fixated on a single strat that can be abused if you know what youre doing. First time i beat palpaces i was not using a meta list: know who i had in my list? a PUNISHER for pete's sake! Yeah the mines didnt roll solid blanks for me that game but the point is still there.

OK....PM sent. I think the best route is:

1. Identifying other ways to play the game
2. Finding other players that want to do those other ways
3. Building that group of casual players

I don't begrudge the hard core tournament types what they want, but there can be room for other types of players in X-wing.

...There was zero hostility in my post...

Which one was that? All the posts I saw were dripping with hostility.

Do your best to welcome new players, not chase them off. Help, not mock. Guide, not insult. My local group has about 8 dedicated players but we can rarely find mutual times to get games in. I would love to bring in new players, skilled or not. (Unless they are really just jerks, we've had that happen a time or two, and I can't say I'm sorry they didn't stick around.)

Just because a guy posts "do I suck?" does not give you license to say, "yeah you do, and you're lazy too."

Just because a guy posts "do I suck?" does not give you license to say, "yeah you do, and you're lazy too."

Correct. But if they suck then you should tell them. The game rewards skill, skill requires time and effort to learn. If that can not be brought in, not gonna be fun on competitive level. If you don't enjoy losing, you will not have a good time learning either. Heychadwick clearly as a point when he points out that there are other ways to play the game.

But that is kind of away from the original op.

If the OP doesnt want to play anymore, who the hell are you to say otherwise?

I actually recommended to quite X-Wing. ;-)

Speaking of quitting.

Armada might be a lot better fit, right?

While I love the cartoon, it's been 8 months, and I can only tilt at a windmill so many times.

I'm going back to historicals and more traditional minis games. WarmaHordes is looking good, and I've been getting people interested in Saga again. Facesmashing with over-sized weapons (or beasties) and shields is more my thing I guess...

You are playing for ******* 8 months and still have no idea what palp aces, wolfpacks, Brobots or chihuahuas means? Yeah, you suck. And you should go back to your non-competitive "traditional" mini games which hand out tournament point and stars based on how pretty you painted your minis.

X-Wing in a competitive environment is not for you and I actually understand everyone in your store who does not want to play with the middle aged "forever noob" guy. And I am saying this in your best interest, because your attitude is simply not fitting for a game which requires a significant amount of thought in the list building stage and on the table as well. It is just not for you.

Bye.

PS. You are not tilting a windmill, that would suggest efford. You are sitting on your thumbs for 8 months and are not really invested into anything.

I am not one to usually get in the middle of things but you stated that there was no hostility in your posts and I am not sure what it is you are trying to accomplish with this post if it is not meant in a hostile way. I have been playing for about 5 months and spend a LOT of time on this forum due to having way too much down time at work and generally being obsessed with this great game. Part of that obsession is aided by having a great group of guys at my FLGS who are very welcoming to a noob and just want to play the game win, loose, or dominate. I also have no idea what a "wolfpack" or a "chihuahuas" so I guess you would consider me a "forever noob" guy as well.

Just because a guy posts "do I suck?" does not give you license to say, "yeah you do, and you're lazy too."

Correct. But if they suck then you should tell them.

I must say that there are a lot nicer/better/less rude things to say to someone that isn't playing well. You can offer advice or you can suggest that the game might not be for them, but you can do it a heck of a lot nicer than the ways you have.

While I love the cartoon, it's been 8 months, and I can only tilt at a windmill so many times.

I'm going back to historicals and more traditional minis games. WarmaHordes is looking good, and I've been getting people interested in Saga again. Facesmashing with over-sized weapons (or beasties) and shields is more my thing I guess...

You are playing for ******* 8 months and still have no idea what palp aces, wolfpacks, Brobots or chihuahuas means? Yeah, you suck. And you should go back to your non-competitive "traditional" mini games which hand out tournament point and stars based on how pretty you painted your minis.

X-Wing in a competitive environment is not for you and I actually understand everyone in your store who does not want to play with the middle aged "forever noob" guy. And I am saying this in your best interest, because your attitude is simply not fitting for a game which requires a significant amount of thought in the list building stage and on the table as well. It is just not for you.

Bye.

PS. You are not tilting a windmill, that would suggest efford. You are sitting on your thumbs for 8 months and are not really invested into anything.

I am not one to usually get in the middle of things but you stated that there was no hostility in your posts and I am not sure what it is you are trying to accomplish with this post if it is not meant in a hostile way. I have been playing for about 5 months and spend a LOT of time on this forum due to having way too much down time at work and generally being obsessed with this great game. Part of that obsession is aided by having a great group of guys at my FLGS who are very welcoming to a noob and just want to play the game win, loose, or dominate. I also have no idea what a "wolfpack" or a "chihuahuas" so I guess you would consider me a "forever noob" guy as well.

Triple scout and a-wing crack swarm. Both literally the most obscure names for x-wing lists in the world. Scouts are torp boats, torp boats are u-boots, scouts even look like Us, so they are uboots and a swarm of uboots was Wolfpack used by germans in world war 2.

Leaves still a lot not as obscure list names open, such as Palp Aces and BroBots. And totally get that the two mentioned ones are super obscure names, but even if you don't know what lists they stand for, you do get that someone is talking about different lists.

i have literally never "ever" heard the term wolfpack or chihuahua for xwing lists. Either in person or on this forum. Dont ever give people crap because they havnt heard your local terms for specific lists, it makes you come off as a bit of an asshat. Though i think you already did that earlier anyway.

In fact, wolfpack makes me think thats a term for the 4Fang list.

i have literally never "ever" heard the term wolfpack or chihuahua for xwing lists. Either in person or on this forum. Dont ever give people crap because they havnt heard your local terms for specific lists, it makes you come off as a bit of an asshat. Though i think you already did that earlier anyway.

In fact, wolfpack makes me think thats a term for the 4Fang list.

Not local terms either, wolfpack is from this forum and chihuahua too. And I did not give him crap for not knowing one term, but all of them and not even being able to contextualize them.

Googling "wolfpack list x.wing" takes 10s flat and you already understand what the guy who tried to help you meant. To be honest, I don't even like chihuahua or wolfpack, because they are rather inefficient terms to describe tripple scout of a-wing crack swarm. ;-)

Knowing what nonsensical slangy terms internet people like to use for certain lists has nothing to do with understanding game concepts or how to play with or against those lists.

I can use a number of traditional strategies. I love cavalry in the armies that I use, because I love flanking maneuvers and the "Hammer-And-Anvil" tactic, pinning a unit down with heavy infantry in the front and then smashing it from behind with cavalry. But I do prefer a more straightforward approach, for the most part. I'm not going to waste a unit unnecessarily, but I've got no problem getting stuck in. I'm an old school ancients/medieval wargamer, and in this game, it is to my detriment.

Strategies like those apply to land based minis games. Models there move in a certain way and have certain characteristics (like being able to block each other's movement) and the well known historical wargaming strategies are emergent properties of how the game works.

X-Wing uses a very different movement model, things don't block movement of other things, who you can attack works quite different, etc... So while a few ideas may carry over to a limited extent, you pretty much need to throw out a lot of these ideas and learn what sort of maneuvering and concepts DO apply in fighter combat. Right now you may be trying to "Cross the T" with armored knights which makes no sense because it's specifically a wet naval tactic.

Second point... In ancients, medievals, etc... there really are little to no special abilities. You can go from one game system to another, one nation's troops to another, and jump a couple centuries back and forth and things are going to be very much the same. Archers act like archers, spearmen act like spearmen, nobody does anything unexpected and there is no such thing as a "combo" where using two things in conjunction with each other yields a disproportionately strong result.

That is not true in X-Wing, or really in most non-historical minis games. Whether it's starships, fantasy, etc... most games these days have special abilities all over the place whether big or small. Now in most of these games, the abilities are baked into the models and are relatively fixed. You can field different models together to form combos. Guy-who-buffs-shooting + guy-who-shoots = profit!

In X-Wing though, you can modify your models a LOT with different upgrade cards in addition to inter-model synergy. This means that you can have two spaceships that use the same model but they behave super-differently on the table, this is quite opposite from historicals where a block of swordsmen is pretty much a block of swordsmen. It's more like if you could imagine a one-on-one swordsman game where the base model was "Swordsman" but you could customize them into Miyamoto Musashi, Sir Lancelot, a Renaissance duelist, or a giant Scotsman with a claymore. Start out the same, but end up drastically different. And without understanding those differences, you cannot hope to know how to fight them effectively because moves that will help you triumph over one will get your ass kicked against another.

So what I would suggest is that you:

1. Work on your list making. Try to understand why people put certain upgrades on certain models and how they interact with each other, the pilot's ability, and the dial of that ship. Try to improve the synergy of your lists.

2. Work on understanding actions and PS. What's better about high PS? What's better about low PS? How do you use each one to your advantage? What actions go up or down in value depending on PS? How does this relate to more flexible actions like Focus that can be used for attack or defense?

3. Look at lists online. For each ship in the list, work out why it's build like that, what was the designer trying to maximize about it? Once you do that for each ship, how do the individual ships fit together into one harmonious whole? Or if they don't fit, why not? Until you have found at least a couple lists that make you say "THAT's dumb, it would be better like THIS", then you still have work to do.

4. Then work on designing your own squadron yourself. Make a first draft, then look for similar lists and see what they did differently. Try to work out what the plusses and minuses are of your approach compared to theirs. Feel free to use ships you like, just try to make sure the list "makes sense" overall. It's better to fly similar ships all the time and know how to fly them well than to buy a ton of stuff you don't know how to use. You're not trying to win Nationals so don't worry about being super-competitive. At a local level, you can do well with a wide variety of well made lists that you're familiar with.

So now we arrive at by far the most important point of all. After reading the above you're going to either be thinking: "That's awesome, now I have a clear path and I know what I need to do! I can't wait to start improving!" or you're going to be thinking: "Screw that rubbish, that sounds like way too much work and I just don't think I'll enjoy that kind of study in order to get good at a game. I'm going back to historicals."

And BOTH of these feelings are just fine. Not every hobby is for every person. I will never enjoy scrapbooking as much as my wife does, and she has no idea why I'd choose to spend an hour working on army list variants and be all excited to see how they do next game night. Which feeling you have will tell you which what you should do.

i have literally never "ever" heard the term wolfpack or chihuahua for xwing lists. Either in person or on this forum. Dont ever give people crap because they havnt heard your local terms for specific lists, it makes you come off as a bit of an asshat. Though i think you already did that earlier anyway.

In fact, wolfpack makes me think thats a term for the 4Fang list.

Not local terms either, wolfpack is from this forum and chihuahua too. And I did not give him crap for not knowing one term, but all of them and not even being able to contextualize them.

Googling "wolfpack list x.wing" takes 10s flat and you already understand what the guy who tried to help you meant. To be honest, I don't even like chihuahua or wolfpack, because they are rather inefficient terms to describe tripple scout of a-wing crack swarm. ;-)

I hate to weigh in on this but I think you should know that your comments were just unfriendly, unwelcoming and honestly did seem hostile. You may have had good intent and purpose in responding but it surely did not come through. Not trying to offend but you should know since it seems that you were unaware of how your comments were understood by many.

Hope this helps,

So now we arrive at by far the most important point of all. After reading the above you're going to either be thinking: "That's awesome, now I have a clear path and I know what I need to do! I can't wait to start improving!" or you're going to be thinking: "Screw that rubbish, that sounds like way too much work and I just don't think I'll enjoy that kind of study in order to get good at a game. I'm going back to historicals."

There are more ways than just accept the tournament scene or quit the game. Casual X-wing is an utterly viable alternative.

from the way he describes it though, casual play isnt a thing in his area.

Knowing what nonsensical slangy terms internet people like to use for certain lists has nothing to do with understanding game concepts or how to play with or against those lists.

I can use a number of traditional strategies. I love cavalry in the armies that I use, because I love flanking maneuvers and the "Hammer-And-Anvil" tactic, pinning a unit down with heavy infantry in the front and then smashing it from behind with cavalry. But I do prefer a more straightforward approach, for the most part. I'm not going to waste a unit unnecessarily, but I've got no problem getting stuck in. I'm an old school ancients/medieval wargamer, and in this game, it is to my detriment.

Strategies like those apply to land based minis games. Models there move in a certain way and have certain characteristics (like being able to block each other's movement) and the well known historical wargaming strategies are emergent properties of how the game works.

X-Wing uses a very different movement model, things don't block movement of other things, who you can attack works quite different, etc... So while a few ideas may carry over to a limited extent, you pretty much need to throw out a lot of these ideas and learn what sort of maneuvering and concepts DO apply in fighter combat. Right now you may be trying to "Cross the T" with armored knights which makes no sense because it's specifically a wet naval tactic.

Second point... In ancients, medievals, etc... there really are little to no special abilities. You can go from one game system to another, one nation's troops to another, and jump a couple centuries back and forth and things are going to be very much the same. Archers act like archers, spearmen act like spearmen, nobody does anything unexpected and there is no such thing as a "combo" where using two things in conjunction with each other yields a disproportionately strong result.

That is not true in X-Wing, or really in most non-historical minis games. Whether it's starships, fantasy, etc... most games these days have special abilities all over the place whether big or small. Now in most of these games, the abilities are baked into the models and are relatively fixed. You can field different models together to form combos. Guy-who-buffs-shooting + guy-who-shoots = profit!

In X-Wing though, you can modify your models a LOT with different upgrade cards in addition to inter-model synergy. This means that you can have two spaceships that use the same model but they behave super-differently on the table, this is quite opposite from historicals where a block of swordsmen is pretty much a block of swordsmen. It's more like if you could imagine a one-on-one swordsman game where the base model was "Swordsman" but you could customize them into Miyamoto Musashi, Sir Lancelot, a Renaissance duelist, or a giant Scotsman with a claymore. Start out the same, but end up drastically different. And without understanding those differences, you cannot hope to know how to fight them effectively because moves that will help you triumph over one will get your ass kicked against another.

So what I would suggest is that you:

1. Work on your list making. Try to understand why people put certain upgrades on certain models and how they interact with each other, the pilot's ability, and the dial of that ship. Try to improve the synergy of your lists.

2. Work on understanding actions and PS. What's better about high PS? What's better about low PS? How do you use each one to your advantage? What actions go up or down in value depending on PS? How does this relate to more flexible actions like Focus that can be used for attack or defense?

3. Look at lists online. For each ship in the list, work out why it's build like that, what was the designer trying to maximize about it? Once you do that for each ship, how do the individual ships fit together into one harmonious whole? Or if they don't fit, why not? Until you have found at least a couple lists that make you say "THAT's dumb, it would be better like THIS", then you still have work to do.

4. Then work on designing your own squadron yourself. Make a first draft, then look for similar lists and see what they did differently. Try to work out what the plusses and minuses are of your approach compared to theirs. Feel free to use ships you like, just try to make sure the list "makes sense" overall. It's better to fly similar ships all the time and know how to fly them well than to buy a ton of stuff you don't know how to use. You're not trying to win Nationals so don't worry about being super-competitive. At a local level, you can do well with a wide variety of well made lists that you're familiar with.

So now we arrive at by far the most important point of all. After reading the above you're going to either be thinking: "That's awesome, now I have a clear path and I know what I need to do! I can't wait to start improving!" or you're going to be thinking: "Screw that rubbish, that sounds like way too much work and I just don't think I'll enjoy that kind of study in order to get good at a game. I'm going back to historicals."

And BOTH of these feelings are just fine. Not every hobby is for every person. I will never enjoy scrapbooking as much as my wife does, and she has no idea why I'd choose to spend an hour working on army list variants and be all excited to see how they do next game night. Which feeling you have will tell you which what you should do.

Points 1, 3, and 4 can be skipped by netlisting. You'll be able to get a grasp on what upgrades combo well with certain other upgrades and pilot abilities, and you'll be able to focus on just playing the game well instead of being stuck with an awful squad for multiple rounds. I know that's going to get some flak from, "I just play for FUN because I'm awful at the game and that's my excuse for losing all the time, fly whatever you want you special snowflake!" players, but not everyone is an Aaron Bonar or Jeff Berling that can just create a new meta staple squad.

If you let new players build their own squads, you end up with Expose. Friends don't let friends use Expose.

Ben Stark, just use 2 out of those 3 lists I put in my first post and you should be set. This game will be much easier if you're already used to and well practiced with your own list and all you have to focus on is your opponent's list. Flying both will give you some variety.

from the way he describes it though, casual play isnt a thing in his area.

What I read is that current attempts have failed, yet I would suggest some others.