hi. I'm Nic....

I'm bad at x wing.

Been playing for something like three years. I lose a lot. But I am enjoying the hurdles and learning as I go.

Just a couple things that work for me that you might find helpful.

- fly the meta lists. It's interesting to figure them out and make them work. Then use that knowledge to craft your own lists if that's really important to you. These guys have not only already invented the wheel...they have taken the wheel and tuned it and applied it to a F1 racecar.

Don't try and reinvent a wheel....that way leads to EXPOSE...and nobody wants to see that.

Next- watch the videos,absorb what you can.

Third, play on vassal for all the reasons mentioned earlier.

The game is deep and wide. Enjoy the swim.

I really appreciate the feedback. And y'all have given me a lot to think about.

So, "jousting" is what I usually do (from what I understand), and that's a hard habit to break. As much as I would like to walk away, and I was dead set on doing that this morning, I guess I can give it a few more go's. I dunno. I'll take everything into consideration and think on it for a while.

Jousting is (at the moment) one of the harder styles of play to make work effectively.

That's not to say that it can't be done; some of my most fun games (win or lose) have involved me trying to force the opponent to joust when they don't want to. And jousting can work (but like I said, it's not the easiest).

What faction do you prefer?

Any particular ships that you gravitate towards?

What do you already own?

If you can give us somewhere to start, I'm sure we can set you on the right path, in terms of the squad you're using and how you're flying it.

This is what I've got. Both core sets, imperial aces, rebels aces, the ghost, millenium falcon, slave 1, rebel transport, lambda class shuttle, 2 a wings, 2 y wings, 2 tie interceptors, 1 e wing, 1 x wing, 1 t-70 x wing, 1 tie f/o, 1 tie advanced, 2 tie advanced prototype, 1 tie bomber, 1 tie defender, 1 tie phantom, 1 z-95 headhunter

I have tended towards Rebels, given that their ships are generally tougher and I like a lot of Rebellion characters.

I have had some success with the Falcon, Y-Wings and A-Wings. I love X-Wings and B-Wings, but haven't had much success with them. I haven't really even attempted playing Imperials a lot because I know that they rely a lot on arc-dodging and dice manipulation.

Here are some example lists I've made -

100 points Pilots ------ Han Solo (55) YT-1300 (46), Chewbacca (4), Millennium Falcon (Evade Version) (1), Engine Upgrade (4) Tycho Celchu (27) A-Wing (26), Chardaan Refit (-2), Push the Limit (3) Green Squadron Pilot (18) A-Wing (19), Chardaan Refit (-2), Veteran Instincts (1). I had one or two wins with this list and I managed to not get completely thrashed in the first few turns by being able to maneuver my way out of tight spots.

I really appreciate the feedback. And y'all have given me a lot to think about.

So, "jousting" is what I usually do (from what I understand), and that's a hard habit to break. As much as I would like to walk away, and I was dead set on doing that this morning, I guess I can give it a few more go's. I dunno. I'll take everything into consideration and think on it for a while.

Jousting is (at the moment) one of the harder styles of play to make work effectively.

That's not to say that it can't be done; some of my most fun games (win or lose) have involved me trying to force the opponent to joust when they don't want to. And jousting can work (but like I said, it's not the easiest).

What faction do you prefer?

Any particular ships that you gravitate towards?

What do you already own?

If you can give us somewhere to start, I'm sure we can set you on the right path, in terms of the squad you're using and how you're flying it.

This is what I've got. Both core sets, imperial aces, rebels aces, the ghost, millenium falcon, slave 1, rebel transport, lambda class shuttle, 2 a wings, 2 y wings, 2 tie interceptors, 1 e wing, 1 x wing, 1 t-70 x wing, 1 tie f/o, 1 tie advanced, 2 tie advanced prototype, 1 tie bomber, 1 tie defender, 1 tie phantom, 1 z-95 headhunter

I have tended towards Rebels, given that their ships are generally tougher and I like a lot of Rebellion characters.

I have had some success with the Falcon, Y-Wings and A-Wings. I love X-Wings and B-Wings, but haven't had much success with them. I haven't really even attempted playing Imperials a lot because I know that they rely a lot on arc-dodging and dice manipulation.

Here are some example lists I've made -

100 points Pilots ------ Han Solo (55) YT-1300 (46), Chewbacca (4), Millennium Falcon (Evade Version) (1), Engine Upgrade (4) Tycho Celchu (27) A-Wing (26), Chardaan Refit (-2), Push the Limit (3) Green Squadron Pilot (18) A-Wing (19), Chardaan Refit (-2), Veteran Instincts (1). I had one or two wins with this list and I managed to not get completely thrashed in the first few turns by being able to maneuver my way out of tight spots.

100 points Pilots ------ Ten Numb (38) B-Wing (31), Autoblaster (5), Flechette Torpedoes (2) “Dutch” Vander (30) Y-Wing (23), R5-K6 (2), Ion Cannon Turret (5) Tala Squadron Pilot (13) Green Squadron Pilot (19). This list had some hard fought battles, and the Dutch Vander/R5-K6 combo actually served pretty well.

================= Lords Of The Sith ================= 100 points Pilots ------ Darth Vader (40) TIE Advanced (29), Concussion Missiles (4), Marksmanship (3), Engine Upgrade (4) The Inquisitor (29) TIE Advanced Prototype (25), Outmaneuver (3), TIE/v1 (1) “Dark Curse” (16) “Winged Gundark” (15) - This list my wife played a few times and ate me alive. And I used it once in a casual game and did pretty well. But I'm a Vader fanboy.

===================== Interceptor Squad 1.5 ===================== 100 points Pilots ------ Soontir Fel (30) TIE Interceptor (27), Push the Limit (3) Carnor Jax (27) TIE Interceptor (26), Determination (1) “Fel's Wrath” (23) Avenger Squadron Pilot (20) - This list is untested. I've used Interceptors a few times and I like the ship, but on the whole I avoid Empire because TIE's just seem so fragile.

I saw the words, "Fel's Wrath", "Marksmanship", and you you put Outmaneuver on the Inquisitor instead of Push the Limit.

The reason why you're losing all the time is because none of those squads are good. The competitive players in your area are just out-power-listing you.

In my first post of this thread, I talked about 3 power lists you could run. Run those.

If someone simply has a better list than you do, equalizing for player skill, the player with the better list is going to win.

100 points Pilots ------ Han Solo (55) YT-1300 (46), Chewbacca (4), Millennium Falcon (Evade Version) (1), Engine Upgrade (4) Tycho Celchu (27) A-Wing (26), Chardaan Refit (-2), Push the Limit (3) Green Squadron Pilot (18) A-Wing (19), Chardaan Refit (-2), Veteran Instincts (1). I had one or two wins with this list and I managed to not get completely thrashed in the first few turns by being able to maneuver my way out of tight spots.

Some thoughts:

a) Han wants an EPT. Push the Limit is a good choice, but there's also been people who use Predator.

b) Being the majority of your firepower, Han needs to hit with his attacks. Gunner or Luke(crew) help a lot in the second crew slot.

c) Being the majority of your points, Han needs to live. Chewbacca helps, he's worth +2 HP. However, C-3PO crew is worth considering instead; at 3 points vs 4, if he's used twice during the game he's better value than Chewie. Alt-art C-3PO was a tournament prize not long ago; you can probably pick one up on ebay for cheap. Or a player who has many might just give you one.

d) A-Wings aren't the best support ships in the squad without some help in the form of EPTs or Proton Rockets. PtL Tycho is good; why not stick A-Wing Test Pilot on him and add in Veteran Instincts? Going from 8 to 10 is way more valuable than going from 3 to 5 on your Green Squadron.

e) Consider dropping the Green Squadron Pilot. If you drop him, you can put Proton Rockets on Tycho instead of Chardaan Refit, have points for an EPT on Han, and put a mod on (you don't have Autothrusters, so Stealth Device or Hull Upgrade on Tycho is probably the next best bet, or Guidance Chips). PS10 and Proton Rockets is probably more valuable than the Green Squadron Pilot anyways. You like jousting, so unloading a fully-modified 5 dice Proton Rocket shot ought to be right up your alley.

f) If you prefer quantity over quality in your squadmates, you could drop Tycho and put in a T-65 X-Wing with R2 Astromech + Integrated Astromech, a B-Wing (Blue Squadron Pilot) plus an A-Wing (Prototype Pilot + Chardaan Refit) or Z-95, or some combination of the above. Avoid 2 dice attacks as much as possible, because they're not worth a lot. More value comes out of a PS 1 Prototype A-Wing, because he moves first (and therefore can block) than a PS 3 Green Squadron + VI.

g) If you can handle just Millennium Falcon + 1, but want a + 1 that will hit harder than Tycho, consider Corran Horn + Fire-Control System + Veteran Instincts + R2-D2. You have to lose the Engine Upgrade and downgrade Luke to Gunner on Han for that, though, but he'll do damage and he's resilient. There's a fair amount of upgrades coming out that happen to be pretty anti-E-Wing in the new waves, though, so I wouldn't get too attached.

100 points Pilots ------ Ten Numb (38) B-Wing (31), Autoblaster (5), Flechette Torpedoes (2) “Dutch” Vander (30) Y-Wing (23), R5-K6 (2), Ion Cannon Turret (5) Tala Squadron Pilot (13) Green Squadron Pilot (19). This list had some hard fought battles, and the Dutch Vander/R5-K6 combo actually served pretty well.

b) Autoblaster Ten Numb is almost certainly not worth it. If you're set on using Ten, Mangler Cannon is 1 point cheaper and virtually guarantees 1 unblockable hit at all ranges, instead of all hit/crit results guaranteed at Range 1. Borrow it from somebody because it's not in your collection, it's a better way to use him, guarantee it.

That said, you pay a lot of points for a ship that can die quickly. He's almost never going to be alive in the last round.

c) If you've got Flechettes on Ten, no reason not to also put Guidance Chips on him, because they'll at least let you trigger his ability and put an unblockable hit in there. That said, I don't think it's a good choice. Flechettes are the best secondary weapon-based stress mechanic out there, but they're still not really good. Put those on the side until there's 2 points left over that you've got nothing better for.

d) R5-K6 is great when he triggers, but there's only a 1-in-3 chance of that happening. That's a risky proposition. You'd be much better off with R3-A2, given the Ion Turret.

e) Borrow or proxy Twin Laser Turret on Dutch until you like it so much more that you buy a K-Wing. It's the best turret in the game, bar none.

f) The Tala and the Green are 2 dice attackers which really don't have much value. I'd pick something else-- maybe VI PtL PRockets Tycho from the above list-- and just run a single ship instead of those two.

================= Lords Of The Sith ================= 100 points Pilots ------ Darth Vader (40) TIE Advanced (29), Concussion Missiles (4), Marksmanship (3), Engine Upgrade (4) The Inquisitor (29) TIE Advanced Prototype (25), Outmaneuver (3), TIE/v1 (1) “Dark Curse” (16) “Winged Gundark” (15) - This list my wife played a few times and ate me alive. And I used it once in a casual game and did pretty well. But I'm a Vader fanboy.

b) The Inquisitor will want Push the Limit instead of Outmaneuver. Outmaneuver is harder to trigger, and at times you'd be tempted to barrel roll or boost to trigger it, but then your shot is unmodified Use Push the Limit instead; more accurate red dice is worth more than reducing the number of green dice.

c) "Night Beast" is better than "Winged Gundark" at the same price point.

Crits seem great but they're really just ok. Like yeah, I'd rather have a crit than a hit, but list building specifically to trigger them is often not worth it. Marksmanship and Winged Gundark have better, equally-costed alternatives.

===================== Interceptor Squad 1.5 ===================== 100 points Pilots ------ Soontir Fel (30) TIE Interceptor (27), Push the Limit (3) Carnor Jax (27) TIE Interceptor (26), Determination (1) “Fel's Wrath” (23) Avenger Squadron Pilot (20) - This list is untested. I've used Interceptors a few times and I like the ship, but on the whole I avoid Empire because TIE's just seem so fragile.

b) Determination is inferior to Veteran Instincts on Carnor. It's less than 50% chance to discard a critical damage, which TIE Interceptors ARE susceptible to, but...less than 50% chance. Better to be PS 10 and avoid being shot at, because as you say, TIEs are fragile.

c) The Inquisitor with Push the Limit and TIE/v1 would probably be better than Fel's Wrath and the Avenger Squadron Pilot naked. Being PS 8 makes him and Carnor (with PtL instead of VI) move at the same time, so you can do shenanigans.

d) Consider Omega Leader with Juke and Comm Relay (Stealth Device optional) as a possible replacement for any of these, too.

Note that I'm advocating a lot of Stealth Device here, but you should also be aware that it's only a good upgrade in one specific role: when it's being used to bump 3 AGI to 4, and when you will have a Focus and preferable also an Evade token at your disposal.

Putting a Stealth Device on Han Solo is a bad move, for instance.

100 points Pilots ------ Han Solo (55) YT-1300 (46), Chewbacca (4), Millennium Falcon (Evade Version) (1), Engine Upgrade (4) Tycho Celchu (27) A-Wing (26), Chardaan Refit (-2), Push the Limit (3) Green Squadron Pilot (18) A-Wing (19), Chardaan Refit (-2), Veteran Instincts (1). I had one or two wins with this list and I managed to not get completely thrashed in the first few turns by being able to maneuver my way out of tight spots.

You're using a pretty good list archetype here, albeit kind of an old one, but it could be made a bit better.

Some thoughts:

a) Han wants an EPT. Push the Limit is a good choice, but there's also been people who use Predator.

b) Being the majority of your firepower, Han needs to hit with his attacks. Gunner or Luke(crew) help a lot in the second crew slot.

c) Being the majority of your points, Han needs to live. Chewbacca helps, he's worth +2 HP. However, C-3PO crew is worth considering instead; at 3 points vs 4, if he's used twice during the game he's better value than Chewie. Alt-art C-3PO was a tournament prize not long ago; you can probably pick one up on ebay for cheap. Or a player who has many might just give you one.

d) A-Wings aren't the best support ships in the squad without some help in the form of EPTs or Proton Rockets. PtL Tycho is good; why not stick A-Wing Test Pilot on him and add in Veteran Instincts? Going from 8 to 10 is way more valuable than going from 3 to 5 on your Green Squadron.

e) Consider dropping the Green Squadron Pilot. If you drop him, you can put Proton Rockets on Tycho instead of Chardaan Refit, have points for an EPT on Han, and put a mod on (you don't have Autothrusters, so Stealth Device or Hull Upgrade on Tycho is probably the next best bet, or Guidance Chips). PS10 and Proton Rockets is probably more valuable than the Green Squadron Pilot anyways. You like jousting, so unloading a fully-modified 5 dice Proton Rocket shot ought to be right up your alley.

f) If you prefer quantity over quality in your squadmates, you could drop Tycho and put in a T-65 X-Wing with R2 Astromech + Integrated Astromech, a B-Wing (Blue Squadron Pilot) plus an A-Wing (Prototype Pilot + Chardaan Refit) or Z-95, or some combination of the above. Avoid 2 dice attacks as much as possible, because they're not worth a lot. More value comes out of a PS 1 Prototype A-Wing, because he moves first (and therefore can block) than a PS 3 Green Squadron + VI.

g) If you can handle just Millennium Falcon + 1, but want a + 1 that will hit harder than Tycho, consider Corran Horn + Fire-Control System + Veteran Instincts + R2-D2. You have to lose the Engine Upgrade and downgrade Luke to Gunner on Han for that, though, but he'll do damage and he's resilient. There's a fair amount of upgrades coming out that happen to be pretty anti-E-Wing in the new waves, though, so I wouldn't get too attached.

100 points Pilots ------ Ten Numb (38) B-Wing (31), Autoblaster (5), Flechette Torpedoes (2) “Dutch” Vander (30) Y-Wing (23), R5-K6 (2), Ion Cannon Turret (5) Tala Squadron Pilot (13) Green Squadron Pilot (19). This list had some hard fought battles, and the Dutch Vander/R5-K6 combo actually served pretty well.

a) No reason not to put Chardaan Refit on an A-Wing if you're not using the Missile slot.

b) Autoblaster Ten Numb is almost certainly not worth it. If you're set on using Ten, Mangler Cannon is 1 point cheaper and virtually guarantees 1 unblockable hit at all ranges, instead of all hit/crit results guaranteed at Range 1. Borrow it from somebody because it's not in your collection, it's a better way to use him, guarantee it.

That said, you pay a lot of points for a ship that can die quickly. He's almost never going to be alive in the last round.

c) If you've got Flechettes on Ten, no reason not to also put Guidance Chips on him, because they'll at least let you trigger his ability and put an unblockable hit in there. That said, I don't think it's a good choice. Flechettes are the best secondary weapon-based stress mechanic out there, but they're still not really good. Put those on the side until there's 2 points left over that you've got nothing better for.

d) R5-K6 is great when he triggers, but there's only a 1-in-3 chance of that happening. That's a risky proposition. You'd be much better off with R3-A2, given the Ion Turret.

e) Borrow or proxy Twin Laser Turret on Dutch until you like it so much more that you buy a K-Wing. It's the best turret in the game, bar none.

f) The Tala and the Green are 2 dice attackers which really don't have much value. I'd pick something else-- maybe VI PtL PRockets Tycho from the above list-- and just run a single ship instead of those two.

================= Lords Of The Sith ================= 100 points Pilots ------ Darth Vader (40) TIE Advanced (29), Concussion Missiles (4), Marksmanship (3), Engine Upgrade (4) The Inquisitor (29) TIE Advanced Prototype (25), Outmaneuver (3), TIE/v1 (1) “Dark Curse” (16) “Winged Gundark” (15) - This list my wife played a few times and ate me alive. And I used it once in a casual game and did pretty well. But I'm a Vader fanboy.

a) Vader's a good ship but Marksmanship is not worth 3 points. Predator is better. You can Focus/Evade as his actions and still have rerolls without Target Locking. Or have a reroll for your Concussion Missiles. Engine Upgrade is, imo, mandatory on him.

b) The Inquisitor will want Push the Limit instead of Outmaneuver. Outmaneuver is harder to trigger, and at times you'd be tempted to barrel roll or boost to trigger it, but then your shot is unmodified Use Push the Limit instead; more accurate red dice is worth more than reducing the number of green dice.

c) "Night Beast" is better than "Winged Gundark" at the same price point.

Crits seem great but they're really just ok. Like yeah, I'd rather have a crit than a hit, but list building specifically to trigger them is often not worth it. Marksmanship and Winged Gundark have better, equally-costed alternatives.

===================== Interceptor Squad 1.5 ===================== 100 points Pilots ------ Soontir Fel (30) TIE Interceptor (27), Push the Limit (3) Carnor Jax (27) TIE Interceptor (26), Determination (1) “Fel's Wrath” (23) Avenger Squadron Pilot (20) - This list is untested. I've used Interceptors a few times and I like the ship, but on the whole I avoid Empire because TIE's just seem so fragile.

a) Soontir must have Modifications. Use the Royal Guard Title on him and sacrifice some points elsewhere and give him two of either Stealth Device, Hull Upgrade, or Targeting Computer, until you get your hands on Autothrusters.

b) Determination is inferior to Veteran Instincts on Carnor. It's less than 50% chance to discard a critical damage, which TIE Interceptors ARE susceptible to, but...less than 50% chance. Better to be PS 10 and avoid being shot at, because as you say, TIEs are fragile.

c) The Inquisitor with Push the Limit and TIE/v1 would probably be better than Fel's Wrath and the Avenger Squadron Pilot naked. Being PS 8 makes him and Carnor (with PtL instead of VI) move at the same time, so you can do shenanigans.

d) Consider Omega Leader with Juke and Comm Relay (Stealth Device optional) as a possible replacement for any of these, too.

Note that I'm advocating a lot of Stealth Device here, but you should also be aware that it's only a good upgrade in one specific role: when it's being used to bump 3 AGI to 4, and when you will have a Focus and preferable also an Evade token at your disposal.

Putting a Stealth Device on Han Solo is a bad move, for instance.

Alright, cool. I appreciate the advice!

Alright, cool. I appreciate the advice!

http://lists.starwarsclubhouse.com/tourneys

This is a website that collects information on tournament entries.

It can be tremendously helpful to inspire lists you want to give a go.

For you, it should give you an idea of what upgrades go well on who.

The forums here can probably explain it, but given your wealth of experience in other wargames, you can probably rationalize what people are trying to accomplish with their upgrades.

Given the lists you generated, it's clear that you understand synergies in the upgrades and abilities. It's just a lack of familiarity with the 'dud' cards and a limited collection that's holding your list-building back.

Seeing what other people are using should help clue you in a bit more.

Of course you have to take what you find with a grain of salt-- a list that tops a 3-round 10-person tournament might be gimmicky and just happened to run into the right combo of ships that night.

Yeah...I'm already placing (another) order for more X-Wing stuff, including two Starvipers (for the auto-thrusters) and a K-Wing (maybe 2, haven't decided). Now just have to convince the wife that I need to drop another $100 for more X-Wing.

You could try this list:

Corran w/ VI, FCS and R2-D2 (42pts)

Biggs w/ R4-D6 and IA (26pts)

Wes w/ VI R3-A2 and IA (32pts)

Seems to have won a few regionals here and there and seems to have potential. Only thing I can see you lacking is one Integrated Astromech card. But that is easy to proxy.

One thing I'm seeing with your lists that may already be implied in the helpful critiques above is lack of synergy and action economy, both among ships, and internal to each ship's build. Think in terms of how to give your ships as many tokens as possible, and/or as many rerolls as possible. And how to fit upgrades with pilots who have natural synergy.

Honestly, when I got into the game I didn't understand the significance of something like Predator that lets you reroll a single die. (Horton Salm is another example.) but when you realize it's a built-in mini-target lock that stacks with your Focus action, you start to get the hang of what synergy is all about.

Oh, and if you love Vader, you have to get Advanced Targeting Computer. Yes, it only comes with a $100 ship, but you can proxy it. There's no way to overstate its potent increase in damage output for the TIE Advanced. That ship was basically considered unplayable for its point cost before that card came out.

Yeah...I'm already placing (another) order for more X-Wing stuff, including two Starvipers (for the auto-thrusters) and a K-Wing (maybe 2, haven't decided). Now just have to convince the wife that I need to drop another $100 for more X-Wing.

Went from giving up to buying more plastic crack. Forumites, I think you did your job.

Yea man. It's all good. It's a fun game win or lose. Keep losing and Keep smiling. It works for me....and you get a little better all the time.

Also, one advice...try not to think of it in terms of a wargame....its a lot closer to 'Go'( from Japan) .it's about area control and less about 'spaceships'.

All the best man.

Poop.

Yea man. It's all good. It's a fun game win or lose. Keep losing and Keep smiling. It works for me....and you get a little better all the time.

Also, one advice...try not to think of it in terms of a wargame....its a lot closer to 'Go'( from Japan) .it's about area control and less about 'spaceships'.

All the best man.

That has got to be one of the best pieces of advice I've gotten. I've been treating this game in very much the wrong way then.