See what you mean. Is this the first guaranteed method of inflicting stress,rather than a crit side affect?
As far as I know. If there were a means of attacking a ship earlier than the combat phase, it would be quite possible, with Tactician or R3-A2.
This is a very bad rule.
See what you mean. Is this the first guaranteed method of inflicting stress,rather than a crit side affect?
As far as I know. If there were a means of attacking a ship earlier than the combat phase, it would be quite possible, with Tactician or R3-A2.
This is a very bad rule.
I don't see how exploring previously unexplored design space automatically makes it a bad rule. What, other than being unusual makes it so bad?
The rule can have the intended impact by inflicting the stress in the 'check pilot stress' stage.
The initiative steps are meant to represent simultaneous movement but quick thinking and anticipation from a quality pilot. Having the debris drop as an interruption affecting later pilots differently does not make sense, and is not necessary.
The general mechanic and design idea are great, it is just the timing that is questionable.
The rule can have the intended impact by inflicting the stress in the 'check pilot stress' stage.
The initiative steps are meant to represent simultaneous movement but quick thinking and anticipation from a quality pilot. Having the debris drop as an interruption affecting later pilots differently does not make sense, and is not necessary.
The general mechanic and design idea are great, it is just the timing that is questionable.
Dont dial a red maneuver if you are in the back pocket of a ship with one of these equipped that it can fart on you?
Its really not that hard to counter the dial adjustment risk.
Its perfect as is.
Do you think it is intentional to make this stronger against high PS pilots?
Do you think it is intentional to make this stronger against high PS pilots?
Yes. Or at least I hope so. Developers better understand the implications of upgrades interacting at PS.
Mines (bombs that have Action header) work better on low PS ships for the same reason as the cargo. While traditional bombs that drop before a dial reveal often work best on high PS ships because they have the most information on where everyone will be.
Hell, Conner net has 3 different interactions based on activation order:
1)If you run over it (PS doesn't matter in this scenario), then you immediately take a damage and skip your action. You get 2 ions that will affect you next turn.
2)If it gets dropped on you BEFORE you've activated (low PS hits higher PS), then you take a damage, skip your action step, and receive two ions to be resolved next turn. This is mostly the same, but it's worth noting that pre-maneuver actions like Advanced Sensors, BB-8, and Sabine are unaffected by Conner nets.
3) If it gets dropped on you AFTER you've activated (high PS hits lower PS), you take a damage, and get 2 Ion tokens to be resolved next turn. Lucky you, you already took an action, so there's no step to skip and you don't suffer that penalty.
So they've been playing with this concept for a while, this is just the first stress-inducing one. I think it's great. Stress has become so marginalized as a mechanic, and I'd like to see it be something to avoid again.
Do you think it is intentional to make this stronger against high PS pilots?
No. I think it's a brain-fart by the design team.
Do you think it is intentional to make this stronger against high PS pilots?
No. I think it's a brain-fart by the design team.
It's actually quite thematic that a surprise, "POCKET SAND!" would make a pilot have to fly erratically. I think they specifically intended for it to work this way.
Maybe you should just git gud and fly lower PS brah.
Edited by ParaGoomba Slayer
No. I think it's a brain-fart by the design team.
I don't think it is a brain fart, I think they just don't care about players that get super huffy when facing control.
I think one of us might be in a significantly better position to speculate. (Hint: It's not you.)
Having your opponent choose your manoeuvre always seemed like a style of punishment rather than a thematic mechanic of the game to me. I'd expect a FAQ on having debris land on you after it hits, like having the stress appear at the check step or something instead.
Do you think it is intentional to make this stronger against high PS pilots?
Yes. Or at least I hope so. Developers better understand the implications of upgrades interacting at PS.
Mines (bombs that have Action header) work better on low PS ships for the same reason as the cargo. While traditional bombs that drop before a dial reveal often work best on high PS ships because they have the most information on where everyone will be.
Hell, Conner net has 3 different interactions based on activation order:
1)If you run over it (PS doesn't matter in this scenario), then you immediately take a damage and skip your action. You get 2 ions that will affect you next turn.
2)If it gets dropped on you BEFORE you've activated (low PS hits higher PS), then you take a damage, skip your action step, and receive two ions to be resolved next turn. This is mostly the same, but it's worth noting that pre-maneuver actions like Advanced Sensors, BB-8, and Sabine are unaffected by Conner nets.
3) If it gets dropped on you AFTER you've activated (high PS hits lower PS), you take a damage, and get 2 Ion tokens to be resolved next turn. Lucky you, you already took an action, so there's no step to skip and you don't suffer that penalty.
So they've been playing with this concept for a while, this is just the first stress-inducing one. I think it's great. Stress has become so marginalized as a mechanic, and I'd like to see it be something to avoid again.
The interesting part for me is that the part that affects your manoeuvres in Conner Net is specifically delayed until the next turn. You get the tokens,but carry out your normal manoeuvre.
I meant to write an elegant piece and argument why this is a bad for the game development. But I am waiting for a computer to reboot with patches and so I am going to to slam this out.
For clarification, currently the rules states that the stress and the roll for crit happen immediately.
The big question is as follows;
Will this change the entire way the game behaves (as established by the standards rules)
The answer is YES and here is why and I am only going to cover 2 out of 4 reasons.
(1) Stress is used as a mechanic to punish significant maneuvers by a ship/pilot. For example, turning a ship 180 degrees requires more concentration preventing a Target Lock, Focus, or allowing a pilot to evade. There are still quite a few ships that have red maneuvers that are turns, banks, and even straights (except Scum large ships of course). For example a Y-Wing ship becomes stressed when maneuvering a 3 Turn or a 4 straight. In standard game mechanics, this results in a loss of action and to gain actions back the ship/pilot must conduct a green maneuver making them more predictable.
(2) If already stressed, if a pilot attempts a stress maneuver then a rule violation has occurred. The opponent now gets to change the dial to their own liking that has several affects to include
a-Sending them off the board and loss of a ship
b-Putting them on a rock or now even another debris field.
c-Move them to where they are vulnerable or not able to attack
d-Move them in such a way it will be several turns before they can get back into the fight.
All of these can result in a win (and should result in a win) for the opponent. It is a harsh punishment that many players resort to a version of play casual and try to not super hurt their opponent
We recently ran a Spy vs. Spy league where you could "once" change your opponents dial after everything was set. This had huge impact and drastic outcome. The player satisfaction of a match dropped considerably. This was just basically moving them out of the fight at the worst time possible, not all the implications of a dropped cargo. We will not use this rule again in our league. The impact is too huge.
NOW
With Rigged Cargo you get (1) and possibly (2). The answer of not doing a red maneuver makes players not use their dial and restricts them. This is not a valid argument as it prevents maneuvering and prevents player enjoyment.
Let's consider what happened in Team Epic. A bomber is going to K-Turn and moves after the Lancer. The Lancer drops his cargo immediately causing a stress...something that did not occur during the decision process of activation. Now the Lancer player gets to decide the move. Of course, most likely the move will go over the template again so two possible crits and two stress tokens. The Lancer player also sends the bomber towards another debris field. Now that bomber has 3 stresses and possible 3 crits.
Here is the problem. For 1 point the player with the bomber does not get to choose a maneuver. So he has no say in the game anymore. The other player gets to choose his maneuvers.
He does not get to engage. He/She may have a damaged ship and have lost cohesion with the rest of the squad.
In essence...this basically ends a game for the player with a bomber. With one point. The MOST powerful change the rules situation. All this assuming the ship is not flown off the board.
This is basically making it a one player game. You can go find that on a computer program probably.
Another note. At least the Stress Hog cost at least 26 points. Now you get something more impactful and more devastating for 1 point. Stresshog couldn't change your dial on you.
Now if the red is not dialed, still two stresses.
Still doesn't get to make decisions on actions. Still taken out of the fight. Still very boring to not be playing your ships.
Now the Cargo is HUGE, bigger than any of the obstacles....so it will be difficult for this scenario not to happen over and over.
Players will lose satisfaction with the game, will become frustrated, and may possibly be dis-enfranchised. If FFG wants this or thinks it is a good gamble...by all means. But basically this 1 point card violates/changes 3 core aspects of the game.
I will try to put more details in later. Added a picture showing all the options for dropping and the area affected. Don't forget, there will also be 6 obstacles on the board at the first drop to get around.
Edited by rilesman
Don't forget, there will also be 6 obstacles on the board at the first drop to get around.
Not necessarily...Seismic Torps
