So... With the new rigged cargo coming (some lucky punks already have) is this the perfect counter to attani mindlink? It seems that if your large base can drop a debris on top of a mindlinked ship u may b able to stress them all and if they didnt plan a green move ud capitalize ... Or if k turns were planned ud send them off board potentially. Or am i missing a timing thing?

Any stress effect is a counter to Mindlink. That being said, only one ship has to acquire a focus token to refocus the whole lot, so stressing it out just reduces its double minus one action efficiency to normal.

Check your timing on things.

dropping that cargo before they move could be devastating, if you can land it on top of a guy. If you just throw it in front of a guy, they will probably move that guy last so everyone else gets their action in before being stressed. Unless those ships were doing greens anyway, in which case they don't care.

They're never going to plan more than one k-turn per turn, because they would just be hosing themselves.

I think what he is asking is if say a PS 3 Scout drops a debris token on a higher PS ship who is mindlinked and has a dial set to a K-turn, you'll get to change their dial. Since you immediately resolve the debris field token, its a way to stress ships pre-maneuver. There was another thread discussing that as well

Forget mind link.

Fart one of these out on soontir or any other ace while they are in your back pocket. They take the stress, take their roll, reveal their maneuver, which is likely going to cross the token again(because its huge), take a second stress and another dice roll, and if they revealed a red, you are going to adjust their dial.

Im not sure why so many are talking about BMST. As soon as i have two templates, this is likely replacing BMST already on my bots list, and i have only been playing BMST on my bots list since the gencon reveal.

Anybody flying Mindlink on a regular basis probably already has some kind of stress mitigation built in. And they're not likely to be planning a lot of red maneuvers in general.

Mindlink is currently my hotness. I'm not really worried about these debris things. It's a minor inconvenience for a round, but then you've spent it and I'm going to be back up to my accelerated action economy. I do have Electronic Baffle in my squad, but that's not really why I'm not scared of the debris-drops.

Also, if I see that you have those debris cargo things in your squad, I'll just play it safe with more green maneuvers until you've spent them.

Not sure that 'immediately' means you apply the stress before the 'check for pilot stress' stage. I think it just means you don't have to wait until the next activation phase for it to have an effect.

I may be wrong, but applying stress after dials are set, but before they are revealed does not feel like the intended treatment.

Why are people assuming that dropping a Debris onto a ship immediately resolves the Debris obstacle effect?

EDIT: Saw an image of the reference card. So, just to put this is perspective, Conner Net was very purposefully and deliberately worded to avoid exactly this "surprise Stress-on-red-move" effect ... and they just went ahead and did it on a 1 point permanent-effect card anyway.

Why are people assuming that dropping a Debris onto a ship immediately resolves the Debris obstacle effect?

I think the rules reference card that it comes with says that it immediately resolves.

If I still played Mindlink Brobots, it would definitely be an interesting problem. Would have to be careful with Sloops and K-Turns. You'd have to maybe just run away for a turn until they were dropped.

These would only be a problem if they were dropped before your Brobots moved. Your opponent wouldn't have perfect information and wouldn't know that you had non-reds planned, so they could be dropped and end up doing nothing. If the cargo tokens were dropped at a higher PS than your Brobots, then you will have already done your red maneuver and you won't double red and have to hand your opponent your dial.

So it's not as bad for Mindlink ships as it seems. At the very least it doesn't effect the best Mindlink list, dual Brobots.

im kinda expecting it to get faq'd to clarify "immediately" just means they resolve it even if their maneuver didnt overlap it because it tagged the rear of the ship.

Immediately holds 0 weight in this game, but somehow suddenly it does? i find that hard to believe. Plus, if it did literally stress you RIGHT THERE before you reveal your maneuver, that means you not only have a pre-maneuver guarantee stress in case someone did a red move but you also doublestress them because their maneuver touched a debris, and theres no rule saying only 1 obstacle result a turn may be resolved so...

Well, I tried mindlinked brobots as well. If it really works that way it won't just be an "interesting problem". It will basically kill that particular brobot build. It's nearly impossible not to perform reds on brobots because you want them to keep their distance from the enemy. It would be far more simple if debris was just ignored until manuever was made. After all according to the rules the original position of the ship's base IS ignored for the purpose of obstacle effects. It's only the manuever template and the final position of the base that count. They're making a deliberate exception to this rule here. I can't help but wonder if they don't realize how many times this might end up with the ship's chosen manuever becoming illegal AFTER the said manuever was set or if they just don't care and actually want this to become a part of the game. In the latter case, I think it's a horrible idea. The concept of the other player setting the ship's dial was OK as a punishment for making a serious mistake of choosing an illegal manuever (and preventing deliberate abuse of such "mistakes"). Making this an effect that can actually be triggered by the other player is plain dumb.

Well, I tried mindlinked brobots as well. If it really works that way it won't just be an "interesting problem". It will basically kill that particular brobot build. It's nearly impossible not to perform reds on brobots because you want them to keep their distance from the enemy. It would be far more simple if debris was just ignored until manuever was made. After all according to the rules the original position of the ship's base IS ignored for the purpose of obstacle effects. It's only the manuever template and the final position of the base that count. They're making a deliberate exception to this rule here. I can't help but wonder if they don't realize how many times this might end up with the ship's chosen manuever becoming illegal AFTER the said manuever was set or if they just don't care and actually want this to become a part of the game. In the latter case, I think it's a horrible idea. The concept of the other player setting the ship's dial was OK as a punishment for making a serious mistake of choosing an illegal manuever (and preventing deliberate abuse of such "mistakes"). Making this an effect that can actually be triggered by the other player is plain dumb.

It cant be an oversight if the wording on the card is accurate. If they screwed up there, than maybe. But it seems very intentional to me, as we all saw the potential effects instantly when the card was revealed. I dont think FFG is that incompetent to where they would overlook something so obvious. And i love this addition.

Personally i never understood the mindlink brobots list, just not the strongest bots list for my play style i guess, but i love this new debris option, and will be getting two templates for my brobots list ASAP.

Hell, i even have a list with ig88b and ventress that i cant wait to test.

I played against 7 Shadow Casters at GenCon during Team Epic. FFG verified the stress is immediate so

If you have a red manuever on your dial your opponent can change it.

If you have the mindlink all your mindlink ships will get the stress and if you have a red manuever your opponent can change the dial.

They are considering an errata. Considering.

I played against 7 Shadow Casters at GenCon during Team Epic. FFG verified the stress is immediate so

If you have a red manuever on your dial your opponent can change it.

If you have the mindlink all your mindlink ships will get the stress and if you have a red manuever your opponent can change the dial. GOOD!

They are considering an errata. Considering. NOT GOOD!

I love the way these things change the game. I hope they remain exactly as is.

Well, I tried mindlinked brobots as well. If it really works that way it won't just be an "interesting problem". It will basically kill that particular brobot build. It's nearly impossible not to perform reds on brobots because you want them to keep their distance from the enemy. It would be far more simple if debris was just ignored until manuever was made. After all according to the rules the original position of the ship's base IS ignored for the purpose of obstacle effects. It's only the manuever template and the final position of the base that count. They're making a deliberate exception to this rule here. I can't help but wonder if they don't realize how many times this might end up with the ship's chosen manuever becoming illegal AFTER the said manuever was set or if they just don't care and actually want this to become a part of the game. In the latter case, I think it's a horrible idea. The concept of the other player setting the ship's dial was OK as a punishment for making a serious mistake of choosing an illegal manuever (and preventing deliberate abuse of such "mistakes"). Making this an effect that can actually be triggered by the other player is plain dumb.

It cant be an oversight if the wording on the card is accurate. If they screwed up there, than maybe. But it seems very intentional to me, as we all saw the potential effects instantly when the card was revealed. I dont think FFG is that incompetent to where they would overlook something so obvious. And i love this addition.

Personally i never understood the mindlink brobots list, just not the strongest bots list for my play style i guess, but i love this new debris option, and will be getting two templates for my brobots list ASAP.

Hell, i even have a list with ig88b and ventress that i cant wait to test.

What's not to understand about it? You almost always have focus on both of your Brobots. That's very good.

Well, I tried mindlinked brobots as well. If it really works that way it won't just be an "interesting problem". It will basically kill that particular brobot build. It's nearly impossible not to perform reds on brobots because you want them to keep their distance from the enemy. It would be far more simple if debris was just ignored until manuever was made. After all according to the rules the original position of the ship's base IS ignored for the purpose of obstacle effects. It's only the manuever template and the final position of the base that count. They're making a deliberate exception to this rule here. I can't help but wonder if they don't realize how many times this might end up with the ship's chosen manuever becoming illegal AFTER the said manuever was set or if they just don't care and actually want this to become a part of the game. In the latter case, I think it's a horrible idea. The concept of the other player setting the ship's dial was OK as a punishment for making a serious mistake of choosing an illegal manuever (and preventing deliberate abuse of such "mistakes"). Making this an effect that can actually be triggered by the other player is plain dumb.

It cant be an oversight if the wording on the card is accurate. If they screwed up there, than maybe. But it seems very intentional to me, as we all saw the potential effects instantly when the card was revealed. I dont think FFG is that incompetent to where they would overlook something so obvious. And i love this addition.

Personally i never understood the mindlink brobots list, just not the strongest bots list for my play style i guess, but i love this new debris option, and will be getting two templates for my brobots list ASAP.

Hell, i even have a list with ig88b and ventress that i cant wait to test.

What's not to understand about it? You almost always have focus on both of your Brobots. That's very good.

I guess i should have worded that differently.

I understand them. It just doesn't fit my play style. Im terrified of losing actions to stress on my bots, and i personally feel its worth the bid for VI to push it to 8. Just personal preference. I know a lot of guys like the mindlinked bots.

Personally im excited to run a ketsu 88c list that does feature mindlink. I just dont personally like it on double bots.

I played against 7 Shadow Casters at GenCon during Team Epic. FFG verified the stress is immediate so

If you have a red manuever on your dial your opponent can change it.

If you have the mindlink all your mindlink ships will get the stress and if you have a red manuever your opponent can change the dial. GOOD!

They are considering an errata. Considering. NOT GOOD!

I love the way these things change the game. I hope they remain exactly as is.

Agreed. If your opponent hasn't dropped his debris yet, and is in a position to hit you before you move, DON'T PLAN A RED. Not that hard.

If you mess it up, you get got. Don't let it happen again.

I don't mind what I'm the garbage for, as long as I get to dump it successfully on somw one during a game.

I played against 7 Shadow Casters at GenCon during Team Epic. FFG verified the stress is immediate so

If you have a red manuever on your dial your opponent can change it.

If you have the mindlink all your mindlink ships will get the stress and if you have a red manuever your opponent can change the dial. GOOD!

They are considering an errata. Considering. NOT GOOD!

I love the way these things change the game. I hope they remain exactly as is.

Agreed. If your opponent hasn't dropped his debris yet, and is in a position to hit you before you move, DON'T PLAN A RED. Not that hard.

If you mess it up, you get got. Don't let it happen again.

I hope they do change it in errata. It feels far too gamey for low PS to be hit after they move, but high PS to be hit before they move. I suppose mines are similar...

I am glad they have confirmed the treatment in the interim, even if I'm not happy with it!

I'm fairly new, have there been any other ways to inflict stress on an opposing ship mid way through activation?

I played against 7 Shadow Casters at GenCon during Team Epic. FFG verified the stress is immediate so

If you have a red manuever on your dial your opponent can change it.

If you have the mindlink all your mindlink ships will get the stress and if you have a red manuever your opponent can change the dial. GOOD!

They are considering an errata. Considering. NOT GOOD!

I love the way these things change the game. I hope they remain exactly as is.

Agreed. If your opponent hasn't dropped his debris yet, and is in a position to hit you before you move, DON'T PLAN A RED. Not that hard.

If you mess it up, you get got. Don't let it happen again.

I hope they do change it in errata. It feels far too gamey for low PS to be hit after they move, but high PS to be hit before they move. I suppose mines are similar...

I am glad they have confirmed the treatment in the interim, even if I'm not happy with it!

I'm fairly new, have there been any other ways to inflict stress on an opposing ship mid way through activation?

Proximity Mines that crit.

Cluster Mines or Conner Nets hitting a ship that has the all damage cards face up crit.

That's it so far.

Saboteur has always been able to do it. (Has anybody -- literally anybody -- ever seen it happen? I have seen Saboteur in play, in an ostensibly serious list, but that's as close as I've come.)

See what you mean. Is this the first guaranteed method of inflicting stress,rather than a crit side affect?

Saboteur has always been able to do it. (Has anybody -- literally anybody -- ever seen it happen? I have seen Saboteur in play, in an ostensibly serious list, but that's as close as I've come.)

I'm considering equipping a bumpmaster with EI, BMST, and Saboteur.