I was pondering this question during one of the many "the game is dying threads". Is there a point where you would WANT the game to die? There's only so many places and characters in Tolkien's legendarium.

Personally I don't mind some ffg characters but if the game becomes MOSTLY ffg original material the game will be done for me. I'll still play what I have but I won't buy anymore.

How about you guys?

Would you be willing to go to entire regions that are made up?

Would you play if an entire cycle had no canon characters?

Would you play if they started releasing material that directly contradicted stuff in the source material?

As long as the game still has the feel of Middle Earth, I will keep buying and playing, no matter what characters FFG makes up. One of the amazing things that Caleb and Matt have done with most of their made up characters is they give them backstories and make them feel like they belong in Middle Earth. As long as they keep doing that (and I dont see them stoping anytime soon) I'll keep playing and buying.

I've actually found my interest increasing as the more FFG-invented material comes out. For the first 3 cycles, it was fairly canonical. The most recent 3 have split off more and more, and this Harad announcement even more. But I find myself more anxious for new material. I think if they start contradicting or inventing locations, I'm out. Invented characters are totally fine by me.

As long as there are no contradictions I'll keep playing, though to be honest my Tolkien-fu is not so strong as to be able to detect any but the most egregious canonical changes.

I hope there's never a heavy departure from the original setting.

The Court of Ardor in Southern Middle-earth comes to my mind as an example.

As long as I find the material interesting and essentially consistent with the lore, I'll continue. I'm looking forward to exploring Harad despite the paucity of Lore, I enjoyed the culture imposed on the Dunlendings, and I hope we will be spending time in Rhun.

Since the next cycle is to be spent in Harad, I wouldn't be surprised to see no canon characters as part of the quests. None are known to be in Harad shortly before the war. However, I expect canon characters to be included as heroes during the cycle as they have before. There's plenty of canon characters who are not yet heroes, and no heroes (even Aragorn) who have used all spheres.

Directly contradicting stuff in the source material is the biggest thing that would bother me. We've already been there once (sort of), since it's implausible that the parties who discovered Balin's fate in Khazad Dum or the balrog in Dwarrowdelf would keep the information to themselves -- OTOH, the quest is *consistent* with Tolkien's world, you'd just have to assume that in the canonical world the quest failed.

However, if they introduced a made-up female elf who had a love affair with a canonical dwarf, I think that might send me over the edge. If this game had been based on the movies instead of the books, I never would've started it.

Directly contradicting stuff in the source material is the biggest thing that would bother me. We've already been there once (sort of), since it's implausible that the parties who discovered Balin's fate in Khazad Dum or the balrog in Dwarrowdelf would keep the information to themselves -- OTOH, the quest is *consistent* with Tolkien's world, you'd just have to assume that in the canonical world the quest failed.

This always bothers me more than anything else in the game.

I don't think there's a point that I would quit out of protest, I already don't buy the packs that don't interest me.

Although I suppose if they release 99%-fanfictiony expansions for too consistent a period I'll stop paying attention. But it wouldn't be a deliberate, toys out of pram moment.

Directly contradicting stuff in the source material is the biggest thing that would bother me. We've already been there once (sort of), since it's implausible that the parties who discovered Balin's fate in Khazad Dum or the balrog in Dwarrowdelf would keep the information to themselves -- OTOH, the quest is *consistent* with Tolkien's world, you'd just have to assume that in the canonical world the quest failed.

Didn't they do that because, at the time, they didn't know they'd be making the Saga expansions and wanted to still give players an opportunity to experience Moria? I thought that was the reason, though I could be misremembering.

Overall, I take the view I took with the Star Wars Extended Universe: if it "feels" like it fits within the storyline, I'm ok with it, even if it's not explicitly called out in the canon.

If there is ever a crossover I'm out.

Granted I haven't even made it to the Khazad-Dum expansion, but for me, I'd be disinterested if the places/regions were wholly made up and they stopped making character cards for actual characters. I like that they're adding in these made-up characters, because I see it as a more expansive look at ME, kind of like the SW expanded universe (which I was admittedly never into), it just recounts the deeds of people who may very well have existed at the same time the Fellowship was trucking along to Mordor, before, or even after.

So I guess, as long as the places remain uniquely Middle Earth, and the lore does as well, and they don't shift to all made-up characters, I'm happy. They can always print a new Leadership Aragorn with different abilities, etc.

Directly contradicting stuff in the source material is the biggest thing that would bother me. We've already been there once (sort of), since it's implausible that the parties who discovered Balin's fate in Khazad Dum or the balrog in Dwarrowdelf would keep the information to themselves -- OTOH, the quest is *consistent* with Tolkien's world, you'd just have to assume that in the canonical world the quest failed.

Didn't they do that because, at the time, they didn't know they'd be making the Saga expansions and wanted to still give players an opportunity to experience Moria? I thought that was the reason, though I could be misremembering.

Overall, I take the view I took with the Star Wars Extended Universe: if it "feels" like it fits within the storyline, I'm ok with it, even if it's not explicitly called out in the canon.

I don't know if they ever announced that was the reason, but I assume it was the reason -- KD/Dwarrowdelf came out before any of the sagas, and Moria is such an obvious place to visit.

With that said, if they had actually spread their adventures out over the whole period between Hobbit and LOTR, there'd be no reason to have such a problematic continuity. They have 2943-3017 to play in, and Balin doesn't enter Moria until 2989. You could have an adventure in Moria *before* Balin went there, as both Gandalf and Aragorn are known to have done so, and you could do it without discovering the Balrog, which neither Gandalf nor Aragorn did.

With that said, I doubt any of the adventures happened that early, even the events in Ringmaker.

I'm probably in the minority for this, but I wouldn't mind if they had a complete cycle without a printing single character I know. Or if they made up a particular city, cite of ruins, or whatever. I really enjoy the source material for the game; it's what got me interested in trying the game out. Now, I'm just in love with the game mechanically, and the source material is just a bonus.

Until they do something that doesn't even feel like it could be in Lord of the Rings, I won't even notice. And when they do that, I probably won't mind as long as it is still fun to play.

If the game only consisted of the eight saga expansions it wouldn't be as interesting. Same as any RPG based on a known setting: If you could only play the main characters doing the things seen in a book/movie it would be boring.

If it's on the official maps, it's a location FFG could make use of. If there's nothing more than a name in Tolkien's books and notes, they can pretty much make up anything they like, but I'd prefer that they make use of everything with at least a minimum of description. I think they have too - literally basing ideas on things with just one sentence in a book of random scribbles Tolkien never truly organised

There are of course crazy things they could do which would technically be entirely canon yet not suitable, like a saga expansion where you play Valar fighting Melkor, or one where you're playing Gandalf in the thousands of years he's been wandering around Middle-Earth. He's technically holding back most of the time, so player cards from that period would be ridiculous

As long as it's Lord of the Rings-y/Middle Earthy, I'm cool with it, even if it is not cannon. They did a good job on the FFG heroes.

If the game only consisted of the eight saga expansions it wouldn't be as interesting. Same as any RPG based on a known setting: If you could only play the main characters doing the things seen in a book/movie it would be boring.

If it's on the official maps, it's a location FFG could make use of. If there's nothing more than a name in Tolkien's books and notes, they can pretty much make up anything they like, but I'd prefer that they make use of everything with at least a minimum of description. I think they have too - literally basing ideas on things with just one sentence in a book of random scribbles Tolkien never truly organised

There are of course crazy things they could do which would technically be entirely canon yet not suitable, like a saga expansion where you play Valar fighting Melkor, or one where you're playing Gandalf in the thousands of years he's been wandering around Middle-Earth. He's technically holding back most of the time, so player cards from that period would be ridiculous

They actually can't do the Valar fighting Melkor. The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings are ok, but they don't have the rights to stuff from The Silmarillion or other sources.

Alright, I just need to step in here for a second.

Cannon: a big gun that goes boom

Canon: official collection of texts

Sorry if I come off as a jerk but this is one of the few language errors that really irks me.

As long as the game still has the feel of Middle Earth, I will keep buying and playing, no matter what characters FFG makes up. One of the amazing things that Caleb and Matt have done with most of their made up characters is they give them backstories and make them feel like they belong in Middle Earth. As long as they keep doing that (and I dont see them stoping anytime soon) I'll keep playing and buying.

I agree with this totally. One of the things I love about this game are the elements that Caleb and Matt make up or explore in a "non canonical" way but are sourced enough in the lore to make me go look things up and learn more about the lore.

Also, I wouldn't mind having copies of most of the main named characters across all of the spheres, with game abilities fitting to each sphere while still being rooted in the source material.

I would go to other regions that are named and do exist within the legendarium but are not fleshed out. I am in fact quite excited to do so. If they just completely create an area from scratch without any basis on the source material though I would not be happy.

If an entire cycle featured non-canon heroes I would get extremely worried and unless they fit into their respective traits really REALLY well and seemed thematic even though they are not canon it would probably begin to mark my departure from the game.

If they release stuff that directly contradicts the source material I would definitely be upset and again this would probably begin my departure from the game.

All that being said I think they do an absolutely amazing job and the only thing (other than the Balrog and Moria stuff that has been discussed) I am not a fan of and the tolkien purist in me was upset by was the POD scenario Murder at the Prancing Pony but I have somewhat changed my mind and am not really bothered by it anymore.

I am pretty welcoming to all of the creative possibilities Middle Earth has to offer, and so far the creative team has done a great job. I also encourage to explore more obscure cultures and races different from the more normal ones (awesome to see Harad allies, even though I was hoping for Dunland allies in the Ring-Maker cycle). In fact this game is quite conservative compared to its other two predecessors, so I find hard to complain about stuff like the Prancing Pony villains and seafaring as some did. In most other big LOTR games they name the ringwraiths and give them different characters, which doesn't happen here, and IMO works better since they are not actually playable. But since they've shown interest in making non-free peoples characters, some may come later, as there's so many places in Middle Earth yet to explore. Lastly, I'll reiterate that I would be really disappointed if the game ended without exploring the themes of artifacts and corruption, as well as Bombadil and Goldberry player cards of some sort. Blue Wizards is just a wishful dream, so I don't really consider it.

Hey! Don't lump in those that weren't fans of Prancing Pony with those who weren't fans of seafaring!

Seafaring is 100% thematic and fitting in that world. Cheesy murder mysteries not so much..

Lol, fair enough. In any case, I would love to see monkeys or apes in The Mumakil adventure pack, as they are mentioned as living in the forests of Harad in the books. That would be awesome.

I'm probably in the minority for this, but I wouldn't mind if they had a complete cycle without a printing single character I know. Or if they made up a particular city, cite of ruins, or whatever. I really enjoy the source material for the game; it's what got me interested in trying the game out. Now, I'm just in love with the game mechanically, and the source material is just a bonus.

Until they do something that doesn't even feel like it could be in Lord of the Rings, I won't even notice. And when they do that, I probably won't mind as long as it is still fun to play.

I'm on the same page. I really think the key for me is that being respectful of the lore/setting is more important than being accurate. If it feels like it could come from JRR (and is fun), then I'm in.

Hey! Don't lump in those that weren't fans of Prancing Pony with those who weren't fans of seafaring!

Seafaring is 100% thematic and fitting in that world. Cheesy murder mysteries not so much..

Heh, totally with you that Prancing Pony is really silly in comparison to the rest of the game.

But I love how many throw backs (for lack of a better term) to the LCG there are in that quest. Todd the Troll having the Hill Troll damage effect. Wolf-pelt Jake behaving just like one of those stupid wargs (though not as annoying as the shadow effect triggered ones). Stupid Bill Ferny, just begging to be killed with a Hail of Stones like in the saga.

Personally, I'm okay with basically whatever at this point, as long as it doesn't contradict the original stories. I'd even play a quest based on Shadow of Mordor.

I enjoy all the new stuff. I wish we could go even deeper into the roots of middle-earth to face even more primordial nameless thingies...