Black Market Slicer Tools costs 1 to spend an action and roll a die for a 50% to deal 1 damage to a stressed ship in exchange for removing that stress. Range is 1-2.

Feedback Array costs 2 to spend an attack to deal 100% damage to any ship (stressed or not) in exchange for suffering 1 damage and receiving 1 ion token. The range is 1.

My armchair-analyst, knee-jerk reaction is that Feedback Array is overcosted, but I'm not sure that's the case.

Range: BMST completely wins by having 1-2 instead of just 1.

Target: BMST only targets enemies with stress, so it's not necessarily going to be usable as often as FA.

Point cost: BMST is 50% cheaper than FA. If FA were 1, maybe it would be too powerful? Maybe it's really worth 1.5 or something? At 1, you could do 8x FA Binayre Pirates, so there is that.

Damage: FA wins by dealing damage 100% of the time compared to BMST's 50%. EDIT: AS Warpman points out below, BMST does bypass shields. This can be great if you can stack shield-bypass to hull-kill a ship with shields still up. If not, the damage is comparable.

In-game opportunity cost: BMST costs your action while FA costs your attack. BMST will let you still attack, possibly doing damage, but it will be unmodified. You will have an action with FA, but you can't attack, so you're likely modifying defense. BUT, if you consider that these are useful against arc-dodgers, you likely didn't have a shot anyway, so losing your attack isn't really a problem compared to losing your action. EDIT: Again, Warpman points out that being an action does give you the chance of destroying a target before the combat phase.

In game costs: BMST removes the enemy's stress, which is something you generally don't want to do. This just opens up your opponent's dial for the next round. FA makes you suffer 1 damage. That's a huge negative. Furthermore, it limits your own dial by giving you an ion token, making you a prime target for the following round. This is the part where I feel that FA's point cost is too high for what it does. But maybe direct damage really is that valuable, even at such a high cost.

What are your thoughts on the cost of these two Illicit upgrades in comparison?

eh...I'd say your analysis is bunk

there are three big things

1.) 100% is ******* 100%; 50% is NOT and will screw you over when you least expect it

2.) Not costing an ACTION is vastly different than costing an ACTION (can't do another action in its place, can't bump/obstacle/be stressed etc)

3.) feedback is far less self defeating on large ships

what does this translate to in gameplay terms?

...BMST is basically a far more useful investment unless you're playing JM5ks

if you are, though, oh boy

**** BMSTs, I'm going to barrel-roll (probably with int agent) to block the **** out of that ace, give him a torp from my buddy for his trouble, and then feedback plink his last hull off!

don't give two ***** if he's stressed or not

The analysis is bunk? Or do you mean the conclusion is bunk? Because, I didn't actually draw any conclusions. All I did was lay out a comparison of different aspects of these two upgrades for better parsing of pros and cons. It seems all you are doing is weighting one part more heavily than the others. That's fine, but it doesn't make my comparison bad, does it? Unless there are pieces that are flat out incorrect, in which case I would love for those to be pointed out to me.

come on, man, I put the smilie

that's sarcasm's calling card

Sorry. I didn't realize the smiley applied to the whole thing. Also, I thought you meant playing against scouts, so I misunderstood that part.

oh no, that's feedback on scouts

large base makes the ion far less important

9 health makes the damage far less impactful

leaving your action open allows you to b-roll into useful positions (esp blocks)

making feedback, imo, the superior option

idk about other large ships. They either have no native re-positioning or are too expensive (or become too expensive after buying EU) to be able to tolerate that feedback damage

And you didn't configure the "in your face, shield hugger" effect

stripping a shield is one thing

DERPing kHorn with a card is a different one

Feedback is one of the most popular illicits on some of the most dominant scum lists. It's fine.

There's advantages and disadvantages to both, but for me slicers come out ahead for now until I actually play with them.

The 1 point difference is huge. Means you might get to take slicers when you couldn't afford feedback. Or you can take it on 2 ships instead of 1 with feedback.

The cost on yourself is big too. One costs you an action. Other costs you an attack, a damage, and an ion.

Feedback has its uses but for me I think slicers are the choice going forward.

There's advantages and disadvantages to both, but for me slicers come out ahead for now until I actually play with them.

The 1 point difference is huge. Means you might get to take slicers when you couldn't afford feedback. Or you can take it on 2 ships instead of 1 with feedback.

The cost on yourself is big too. One costs you an action. Other costs you an attack, a damage, and an ion.

Feedback has its uses but for me I think slicers are the choice going forward.

There's advantages and disadvantages to both, but for me slicers come out ahead for now until I actually play with them.

The 1 point difference is huge. Means you might get to take slicers when you couldn't afford feedback. Or you can take it on 2 ships instead of 1 with feedback.

The cost on yourself is big too. One costs you an action. Other costs you an attack, a damage, and an ion.

Feedback has its uses but for me I think slicers are the choice going forward.

And they all somehow forgot that it's an action, so it can actually DERP an ace to dust before he gets away or blows you to hell at his PS9+

Costing is fine. Feedback Array is better than BMST. Less conditional, do not use your action (which allow you to Barrel Roll in range to use Feedback Array) and even if you lose your attack, it would be an attack vs a ship that you could not hit anyway (looking at you Soontir).

BMST does not free up your opponent's dial the same way that Latts Razi (crew) does. Remember that it happens in the action phase, so take Soontir for instance and imagine that he starts the round stressed against 2 Z-95s with BMST and Zuckuss (ship) ready to deliver some pain behind.

Can Soontir risk doing a white manoeuver (or dare select a red manoeuver)? What if the Z-95s bump, hit an asteroid, decide not to use BMST or simply have crappy luck and fail to trigger it? Soontir would end up doing a white manoeuver, keep his stress and have Zuckuss chuckling in delight.

BMST might enable an opponent to shed multiple stress faster, but single stress ace pilots will probably still do green manoeuvers out of fear of any of those scenarios occuring. That's my gut feeling at any rate.

I'm also in the feedback is fine camp.If anything both of these upgrades are situationally super strong. Range 1-2 on BMST is what is potentially the most crazy about it. That's a huge anti-ace bubble if the dice roll is on your side.

I'm looking forward to BMSTs.

Two Z95s with them or a Sabine Tie...

The thing I also like about them is the that they could setup situations where Aces expect to lose their stress (2 Zs is 75% chance) and don't pull a green to clear the stress. All sorts of sneaky shenannegans are possible...

Anything that brings more uncertainty and bluff to the game are good. Personally, I don't like absolutes nor pure chance; this card gets the mix right.

If a player is feeling really sadistic, he could always put both BMST and feedback array on a Shadowport Hunter

BMST does not free up your opponent's dial the same way that Latts Razi (crew) does. Remember that it happens in the action phase, so take Soontir for instance and imagine that he starts the round stressed against 2 Z-95s with BMST and Zuckuss (ship) ready to deliver some pain behind.

Can Soontir risk doing a white manoeuver (or dare select a red manoeuver)?

it's not just the phase, though

even if you see BMSTs coming from a mile away ...well, dem dice man.

"ah-ha! I'm going to bamboozle my opponent with a white maneuver!...oh what, none of the BMSTs triggered ? Guess I get to eat ****, then"

If a player is feeling really sadistic, he could always put both BMST and feedback array on a Shadowport Hunter

I intend to do it.

Costing is fine. Feedback Array is better than BMST. Less conditional, do not use your action (which allow you to Barrel Roll in range to use Feedback Array) and even if you lose your attack, it would be an attack vs a ship that you could not hit anyway (looking at you Soontir).

You're missing the part where that doesn't matter if they activate after you and get out of range 1, while BMST can activate immediately before they have moved.

Black market tools will be the Z's time to shine, got 13 points left, then you get a blocker that can't quite get ignored, that does damage and if targeted, takes one for the team and dies as destined to do so.

Feedback is 100% guaranteed to work as long as you're within range. You could be blocked on a rock and you'll still be able to do it.

BMSTs do little if the target doesn't have PTL/stress mechanics, has PTL with Advanced Sensors, is triggering PTL off of a Coordinate action so they can still move and clear stress later, or or simply doesn't bother to use their PTL. They also won't help if you're the one who's stressed, or are otherwise prevented from taking your own actions.

The simple fact that there are so many situations where BMSTs will do little or nothing for you help justify their cost, even with the longer range.

i think the acronym BMST sounds a little sexy (as in S&M... or STD), so i like it seems like it should be fun at least.

I'm trying bmst over feeedback (gonking slaver) for practice next time I play. I think it's a nice 1 point illicit- we need more of em dammit.

I'm looking forward to BMSTs.

Two Z95s with them or a Sabine Tie...

The thing I also like about them is the that they could setup situations where Aces expect to lose their stress (2 Zs is 75% chance) and don't pull a green to clear the stress. All sorts of sneaky shenannegans are possible....

Actually, 2 z-95's have a 50% chance.

7 z-95's also have a 50% chance, as the action also removes the stress from the targeted ship, so unless the ship has Zuckuss or Hera crew on them, you're not going to have enough of their stress to burn through.

Additionally as mentioned above, if they don't have stress, which some builds don't rely on, then you are very limited in your ability to actually trigger this.

Both slicers and feedback have their uses. And their points seem fine to me.