Ive seen a lot of fangs, shadowcastors, and arcs both on the forums and even at my flgs (one dude immediately ran a 4fang swarm and good god that is stupid strong...)

but wheres the tie/sf love? Nobody spoiled the price of Omega Specialist either.

Were they not at Gencon or something?

My brother bought 2 at gencon and destroyed people at his FLGS on Monday. They're around.

Omega is 25 points with ept.

they were at gencon

but my gencon caddie is the local "Best guy ever" and so he offered to be saddled down with everyone's Wave 9 pre-orders

I didn't have the heart to ask him for the two of everything (Sans Fang) that I would've purchased had I gone myself

so I had to "settle" for the ARCs

anyway, theory time!

Tie/SF is getting the short end of the forum stick because it's uncomfortably sandwiched between x7 Defenders and Palp Aces, two amazing archetypes that make everything else look crappy

and honestly, in the case of the SF generics, they do seem kinda crappy relative to x7 Defenders.

See, unlike the ARC, the SF doesn't really work its aux arc. It doesn't get Alliance Overhaul mods or Tailgunner or droids like r3-a2 that exploit the hell out of that arc, it's just an attack that I guess is better than nothing. In short, I think they're just jousters. They're not poor by any means (the X-wings WEEP in envy at PS 3 and native barrel-roll with collision detectors for only 1 point more than an integrated rookie) but they're not OMFG impressive like x7 defenders. If you like them, I'm sure you can make em work

obvious exception to "not working that aux arc":

"oh, you ARCs turn a focus into a crit? That's adorable."

I like both named pilots, they're just nothing like anything the empire has ever had before and they'll take getting used to

the forum seems so wrapped up in the "omg soontir/inqy never ever die!" mindset that it's difficult to appreciate the value of the suicidal, explosive QuickDraw, but that doesn't mean there is no value to be had

also, if you're a bad enough dude to save the president palpatine Snoke,

Backdraft (VI, Fire Control System, Special Ops Training ) [30]

Zeta (Collision Detector, Special Ops Training ) [23]

Zeta (Collision Detector, Special Ops Training ) [23]

Zeta (Collision Detector, Special Ops Training ) [23]

[99 points]

can slap on TIE/mk2 on Backdraft or keep fingers crossed that the tech in Hotr (allows Action Step before check pilot stress on red maneuvers) is 1 point like it should

or upgrade to Rage Baffle Quickdraw, which is less reliable in this kind of list but a lot more intimidating

aux arc is more of a backup to me. Though i did notice something i kinda wanna try even though i think the price and not certain effect might bite me in the butt.

Daredevil on Quickdraw. 1hard can easily land you in double-shot territory, since she has no boost roll 2 red die take hits/crits. Frees up Acc Corrector

i dont usually run ultra competitive lists. This could easily bite me in the butt and i'll somehow roll 2 blanks (go figure the one time you WANT damage right? lol)

Also remember all that "quad shots on the same large ship" with quickdraw crap that everyone, including me always said would never happen because its a 1/2 base movement offset to get it?

well, yesterday i had a ship land perfectly like that alongside my ghost. Sides of the bases were basically kissing but not touching and he would have had doublearc on me if he had been an SF....i was rather shocked to see that lol

I agree with fickle. I just don't think they add a lot to the Imperial playbook. Maybe when people are looking for a replacement for all the PTL Arc Dodgers, they might pick it up. Overall, though.....it's just OK.

It's not as survivable as the ARC-170, either. Maybe the System or Tech slot can help it be interesting? I'm primarily an Imp player, but I'm just not inspired by this ship.

I haven't seen any Wave 9 in person... but I did see this:

I agree with fickle. I just don't think they add a lot to the Imperial playbook. Maybe when people are looking for a replacement for all the PTL Arc Dodgers, they might pick it up. Overall, though.....it's just OK.

It's not as survivable as the ARC-170, either. Maybe the System or Tech slot can help it be interesting? I'm primarily an Imp player, but I'm just not inspired by this ship.

tbf, the ARC isn't very survivable either

Norra is the least paper-mache with her ability (used defensively) and r2-d2, but she's nowhere near the standard set by palp aces and x7 defenders

you gotta rely on their incredibly unconventional small-base aux arc and your ability to exploit it to keep them alive

Tie/SF could be the same but, apart from Backdraft, their aux arc is just a Tie Fighter

but, on the plus side,

The Tie/SF is cheaper by 2 points across the same PS

The Tie/SF dial, while limited, has SEGNORS!!!!! (which I rate so much **** higher than K-turns due to the shenanigans and the ability to choose two loops instead of 1 k)

the biggest advantage, though, is that the named Tie/SF hit an impressive PS 9 (QD is just that naturally, Backdraft gets VI with no consequences because the system slot gives you FCS for full mods anyway) for much cheaper than a fully built ARC

VI FCS Backdraft? 30 points

The Norra I run (PTL, tailgunner, r2-d2, VTs) is 40

it's really cool how the two small base aux arcs of the wave (And in the whole game) are so radically different from one another

The reason i like the SF is because in my meta/the way i fly i tend to constantly get between two enemy ships. All the people saying the article's claims of doubleshot was impracticable made me laugh because i literally get that every time i dont try to flank.

well...devil's advocate here

it's not just impracticable because of the very specific requirements but because you don't get the Spec Ops title primary benefit while using it (no additional die of damage)

which is a huge problem because spreading damage is not something you want to do in this game. You want things to die , not lose shields while they pick off your own ships

The Spec Ops double-tap is a greed y greedy play that is just begging for Karma to slap you upside the head

"oh, it's just a 1-health A-wing with no mods. No problem! I'll just two dice it so I can start working on the ghost behind me and...oh it rolled two evades/I rolled two blanks etcetcetc"

obvious exceptions:

1.) well, the ship I need to kill is in my aux arc anyway...so **** it, right?

2.) "Backdraft", because his aux arc doesn't care at all about his title so if you have it AND you have a primary shot (that's not on a target you NEED to kill), might as well double-tap!

but if you have like a nearly dead pilot in your front arc and a fresh target in your aux... don't give in to temptation! Use your primary!!!

oh not saying i'd take the doubleshot every time. Evasive ships behind me = not bothering, severe fat ship that must die infront of me = not bothering, or ship that is literally of no consequence right now for whatever reason = not bothering.

The option though is awesome, and as someone said in the ARC thread you put up, small base aux arcs are oddly difficult to dodge.

If i got an uncloaked phantom behind me and a defender infront of me, im taking the splitshot because ANY potshots on that uncloaked phantom is highly desirable.

Flipside, if its a random tie fighter, not bothering unless its about to die and it has a range1 shot on ME as well.

i'll use quickdraw as the usual gimick i tend to do alot thats not actually competitive, but quickdraw yeah hes basically solidified in a lot of lists for me.

small base aux ARCs are hard to avoid, you say?

muhahahahahahahahhahahaha~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

yeah, those are ARCs but there is literally no reason "Backdraft" couldn't have done the exact same thing with his 1-bank and b-roll

well, he couldn't have looked as **** sexy doing it, that's for sure

but for sure, the power of the small base aux arc is something you just have to appreciate for yourself on the table (general "you", stupid english language). It just completely changes the way you play the game

It's not as survivable as the ARC-170, either.

tbf, the ARC isn't very survivable either

Norra is the least paper-mache with her ability (used defensively) and r2-d2, but she's nowhere near the standard set by palp aces and x7 defenders

I guess it depends on what you are flying against and how many attack dice are coming your way.

Perhaps I'm just not giving the TIE /SF enough credit. I'll admit I didn't for the TIE FO and was quite happy by the way that ship played, even as just generics. I do like the Segnor's Loop and the dial is awesome. So....I can see that I might learn to appreciate the TIE SF one day.

There are simply too many better options in the same price bracket. Really doubting it will see a lot of competition because it's too fragile compared to other options in the Empire, but we will see if that changes in an environment where stressing upgrades are more dangerous.

Where are they: Considering they aren't as fast as the TIE/FO they behind the FOs and trying to keep up with them in the First Order battle formation.

But really, I expect to see some in a few weeks or month or so, when Imperials decide they want to try something different every now and then...by trying an aux arc. And yes they do fall in points wise where there are better or more survivable ships...so who knows overall if the SF will make a huge showing in the future.

Give it some time to hit the stores, by then the Gencon folks will have figured out good builds and uses for them and it will all trickle down.

Where are they: Considering they aren't as fast as the TIE/FO they behind the FOs and trying to keep up with them in the First Order battle formation.

eh.....

so they don't have a five-forward and their 3-turn is red

that's it

ito speed, that's really not a huge deal unless you're trying to deep flank em in from the side

and hey, if they're all SF, they'll all be just as fast

Y'know ficklegreendice, I am pretty sure it was your passion for the ARC-170 that pushed me towards such fanatical excitement about the TIE/sf. I only picked up 1 ARC-170 expansion pack, but two TIE/sf packs, as my brother mentioned upthread. They are so gorgeous! Which is really, really weird, because when TFA first came out, I wasn't sold on them at all. I liked the T-70 X-wing well enough, but the TIE/sf was meh. Now that we finally have them in this game, I am simply enamored with them.

I posted my mini battle report in the ARC thread, but it bears re-linking here. What I experienced was basically the kind of thing that people expect from the TIE/sf, especially "Quickdraw," but it was still impressive to see it played out on the table.

Oh, I am also really, unreasonably excited to make a completely First Order Epic squad. I have enough ships now to make a half-way decent Team Epic squad, more fluff than substance, but man it will be cool to see it fly.

"Zeta Squadron"

2x Zeta Specialist TIE/sf (23)

- Homing Missiles (5)

- Accuracy Corrector (3)

- Guidance Chips (0)

- Special Ops Training (0)

- Sensor Cluster (2)

4x Zeta Squaudron Pilot TIE/fo (16)

- Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

- Weapons Guidance (2)

"Zeta Ace" (18)

- Outmaneuver (3)

- Shield Upgrade (4)

- Comm Relay (3)

"Zeta Leader" (20)

- Predator (3)

- Shield Upgrade (4)

- Comm Relay (3)

TOTAL 200

Okay, so this is really bad, but when all you have is 6 TIE/fo's and 2 TIE/sf's, you make do. When Kylo Ren's shuttle comes out I will be shooting for a full 300 points. I'll probably have to pick up another TIE/sf pack and a couple more TIE/fo packs. So much awesome!

It is sad how little excitement there was for the ARC and SF

But that just goes to show how even something as simple as a wave 2 mechanic (firespray) can have game defining implications that we are simply incapable of appreciating from the preview article alone

Also, Ren and his shuttle have some sick synergy with the SF

REN --> backdraft --> consider the dark side SHOWN

Coordinate action --> QD rage --> QD baffle --> fire before basically anything activates --> green move into no stress and pick up another focus

Ive seen a lot of fangs, shadowcastors, and arcs both on the forums and even at my flgs (one dude immediately ran a 4fang swarm and good god that is stupid strong...)

but wheres the tie/sf love? Nobody spoiled the price of Omega Specialist either.

Were they not at Gencon or something?

Can't wait for the tie sf, I know the ARC has got ARCS, but I feel like the sf dial is not as restricting as it looks and can't wait to get that 1% a game chance that I will be able to hit a target from both ends in one round. Hey, if I pull it off, then hopefully I won't die from return fire.

Affer playing the ARC, yeah the SF is bad only to those utterly spoiled by aces

Then again, tailgunner aux arc is what makes the ARC so **** slippery and flexible despite slow speed. SF don't get tailgunner backdraft is the closest approximation (better, really, except when trying to match norra max damage output)

Ive seen a lot of fangs, shadowcastors, and arcs both on the forums and even at my flgs (one dude immediately ran a 4fang swarm and good god that is stupid strong...)

but wheres the tie/sf love? Nobody spoiled the price of Omega Specialist either.

Were they not at Gencon or something?

4 ships is not a swarm.

Been flying Firesprays for awhile, looking forward to flying both the arc and tie s.f ... I only have a s.f for now tho .. so either Kath, Backdraft and Dark Curse, or Backdraft, Maarek (defender) and Zeta Leader for my next builds for fun