The /sf is a very rebel type ship (and this wave sees some of the unique faction types character disappear with Scum getting a decent arc dodging ace, but that's another discussion)essentially the equivalent of a Bwing in durability (It's no T70, which has access to ATs or IA and is a bit more). It also has a back arc, which while useful, isn't going to do much against the meta as a base two attack and a double two shot attack, if you pull it off can be good but it's not great. So, I'll go back to the Bwing, which isn't seeing much play right now. That said, if the ace meta drops a bit, the ship could become more relevant.

As is, I think only Backdraft will see play and I think he can fit a nice 30-31 point niche at PS 9. A rage Baffle QuickDraw might threaten aces, but that's a lot of points to invest in a ship like that and probably racing itself for a similarly costed ship.

man people keep relating these guys and ARCs to B-wings for some reason

to note, yes, I absolutely agree 2-dice aux arcs aren't particularly great

but the aux arc benefit is so absolutely game defining that there really is no reason to compare them to B-wings outside of the superficial System slot + B-roll similarity.

I've already spammed this thread (and several others ) with pics of the glorious glorious ARCs abusing the hell out of their auxiliaries, so I'll just say again that the benefit it provides to a small base ship is absolutely immense and far more than we could ever just hand-wave away

how immense?

well, not enough to where I can disagree about 2-dice primaries leaving you wanting (without alliance overhaul and tailgunner, anyway)

but far more than enough to be able to distinguish them from far more mundane jousters

I'd personally fly a Zeta S over everything but the creme de la creme of generic jousters, which is crackswarm and x7 defenders (if you use generics that is). From what I can extrapolate vise-a-vi my experience with ARCs, they're far more than the sum of their parts but goddamn will I miss ARC mods and tailgunners

I agree with fickle. I just don't think they add a lot to the Imperial playbook. Maybe when people are looking for a replacement for all the PTL Arc Dodgers, they might pick it up. Overall, though.....it's just OK.

It's not as survivable as the ARC-170, either. Maybe the System or Tech slot can help it be interesting? I'm primarily an Imp player, but I'm just not inspired by this ship.

Well the Tech upgrade it comes with seems good... for Poe.

7pts for a rear shot is well worth it in my books.

Considering this game tends to value +1 primary attack as anywhere between 8-12pts compared between two ships, 7pts for a 2nd arc sounds cheap. Even if it is 2die (3 backdraft) its still an attack you wouldnt otherwise have.

Any idea how many times ive had Mithel approach slowly trying to not overshoot, only to have my opponent decide he wants to disengage and rockets off at 4-5speed behind me? Cant do that against an SF, i'll shoot anyway.

I agree with fickle. I just don't think they add a lot to the Imperial playbook. Maybe when people are looking for a replacement for all the PTL Arc Dodgers, they might pick it up. Overall, though.....it's just OK.

It's not as survivable as the ARC-170, either. Maybe the System or Tech slot can help it be interesting? I'm primarily an Imp player, but I'm just not inspired by this ship.

Well the Tech upgrade it comes with seems good... for Poe.

ner, Poe likes to keep his focus for focus related things

I mean, my name is Ficklegreendice and all, but Sensor Clusters just doesn't do a whole lot for 2 points. Guarantees are nice, but unless you can stack it with more stuff it just doesn't accomplish a whole lot for what it costs

apart from Comms (which the poor SF can't do diddly with), the tech slot is still waiting to be useful

either Wave 10 or Hotr will provide (provided the "Action step" before "check pilot stress" upgrade costs 1 point like it's supposed to, ffg !)

disclaimer: no I don't think Zeta will set the world on fire or that I'll even run it (not a fan of barely modified jousters)

but a proper comparison would be Zeta S versus an X7 defender, imo. The price isn't the same, but the difference in dice modification is readily apparent

not to mention that, while the aux arc is far more complex and useful than we know it to be from just the spray, the white 4-k offers a rough approximation except it's always 3 dice

Good thinking, I do like the comparison with the Defender better like you say. I forget about Defender generics because of Ryad. The white K-turn being approximately equal in value to the rear arc is true.

I still like Accuracy Corrector on a Zeta cause your action can be used purely for defense with sensor cluster. Plus for those rare times when you get the double shot

I'd like AC a whole lot more if I hadn't flown four of them (deathfire and 3 Tie/x1 tempests) and had to experience the horror of

1.) late game against Poe (I won ! but it involved 45 minutes once and 18 minutes the second time of running for my little advance life)

2.) the entire squad shooting at a scum Thug and doing 4 damage because **** green dice

I don't rate AC as an upgrade anymore just because opposing green dice will cockblock you till hell freezes over, thaws, becomes an okay place to live

also i think im the only one that actually doesnt want to do the baffles quickdraw strat.

Here's my mentality about quickdraw:

Dengar. If Dengar is looking at you and he hasnt retaliated yet, you are usually heavily deterred to NOT shoot at him unless either you are A) a lowly Academy pilot i dont care about anyway or B) have no other shot at all so might as well suck it up.

Quickdraw is similar but different. Similar because its a retaliation attack but it doesnt have to hit the person that shot her, different because its tied to shields not being attacked in front arc. The moment you use that ability, people are going to gun you down to at LEAST remove the shields asap while you cant "quickdraw" again. If you can still shoot, especially if you got range1 on someone, it can be a bit of a Tarn effect where Quickdraw basically goes where she pleases and everyone ignores her.

if you do the baffles thing i seriously doubt you'd get her ability off more than once.

if you do the baffles thing i seriously doubt you'd get her ability off more than once.

I don't believe you'll be getting it off more than once regardless if you're leaving yourself in a position to get shot (and aren't unrealistically lucky)

Quickdraw (or any of the SFs) is not a defensive powerhouse

if you threw her in an ARC (oh look, fickle's talking about ARCs again), for example, she could troll around from here to kingdom come firing out retaliations while r2-d2 keeps feeding her ammunition shields

but she's in an SF, so we must adjust expectations

the appeal of the Baffled Rage build is completely alien to anyone overly familiar with your typical "ace." It's a glass cannon , ala Wedge Antilles or Redline if Redline were a crapton cheaper, still worked with CM after the errata, and were PS 9, and it's a hell of a lot of both

specifically it's 6 to 8 red dice unloaded into your enemy's face with re-rolls on both and a focus (ie "full mods") on one, aka "better-than-cluster-missiles"

it's also something you can sometimes use to smack PS 9+ pilots before they've gotten to activate ("sometimes" will become far more often once coordinate is out)

of course, if you let her get shot in any get-up, she's just going to melt. the trick then is either

a.) "**** it" and trade her out for something else, potentially abusing the Biggs-like-effect of how absolutely terrifying she is to cover for late game ships (such as the similarly costed inquisitor; why choose when you could have both etc)

b.) despair at the fact that anything short of soontir has never arc-dodged anything in the game...or use her to flank while the rest of the squad runs interference or takes the heat

Quickdraw in an ARC would be phenomenal. Fly her with Biggs with DTF and R2d2. Double attacking regening ship.

The only tie s/f that excites me is Backdraft. A potential double 3 attack front and back shot. Toss him predator and let him go for 30pts. Or else PtL + adv sensors + mk.ii for 34pts. He can adv sensor two actions, then do one of his nine, yes that is nine green moves. And with a barrell roll and his rear arc, he can shoot just about anyone.

I can't decide if I want baffle quickdraw or predator backdraft.

The only tie s/f that excites me is Backdraft. A potential double 3 attack front and back shot. Toss him predator and let him go for 30pts. Or else PtL + adv sensors + mk.ii for 34pts. He can adv sensor two actions, then do one of his nine, yes that is nine green moves. And with a barrell roll and his rear arc, he can shoot just about anyone.

I think I'm going to run VI, FCS, and the title (maybe with the Mk2, depending on what points I have left). I think that's a pretty nasty ship for 31 points.

Quickdraw in an ARC would be phenomenal. Fly her with Biggs with DTF and R2d2. Double attacking regening ship.

so many pilots would be phenomenal in an ARC

freaking Backdraft would be lul-worthy, but that's too obvious

even "joke" pilots like Arvel, provided he had an ept in the ARC, would be incredible. BB-8 + ptl, b-roll into modifiers into an intention block v lower PS pilots and take your shots without retaliation. I'd fly the HELL out of that!

it's a ship with a lot of potential due to the unique upgrade combination of crew + droid (even if the crew is almost always tailgunner)

the SF isn't, because it's a cheaper ship that requires a different mindset (and because tech still kinda sucks right now )

doesn't mean it can't get the job done, though. Just gotta remember that a special forces goon is still a goon and inherently expendable currently, it's just a robust little workhorse. Build it as cheaply as possible and it should pull its weight

Backdraft is the closest thing they have to an "ace", only he trades defensive mitigation for an aux arc that you have to fly well with

"currently, it's just a robust little workhorse." - ficklegreendice

I'm really looking forward to a small-base, nimble ship that has teeth at both ends. Sure, it's a different modus operandi for imps, but it can still wreck builds.

Makes me happy...

"currently, it's just a robust little workhorse." - ficklegreendice

I'm really looking forward to a small-base, nimble ship that has teeth at both ends. Sure, it's a different modus operandi for imps, but it can still wreck builds.

Makes me happy...

Nimble...You know this threads about the sf not the fo right?

"currently, it's just a robust little workhorse." - ficklegreendice

I'm really looking forward to a small-base, nimble ship that has teeth at both ends. Sure, it's a different modus operandi for imps, but it can still wreck builds.

Makes me happy...

Nimble...You know this threads about the sf not the fo right?

It is nimble, just because you see some red on the dial does not mean it isn't.

Six reds to four greens, all the greens are slow and predictable.

not with the aux arc

Twin ion engines for 1point grants you 4 more greens. Its almost an auto include.

eh...bit torn on tie/mk2

so Baffled Rage Quickdraw is probably a tie/mk2 no brainer if you have the point floating around, but Backdraft?

idk, I've yet to red maneuver any of my ARCs (not saving much given PTL Norra, but I do run Thane and he doesn't stress himself ) and with VI FCS there's not much reason to run ptl on him (SF can't evade )

Im thinking the nice red sloops alone makes it great to have a lot of green banks for the next round. Guri is always stuck in the corner after she sloops, that said I have not given it that much thought, just seems the tie/MK 2 brings a lot for the points on this ship.

aggressor greens do make for a sexy dial

I do remember kinda wishing the ARC could go faster with its greens because there's absolutely nothing worse than getting stuck on Dengaroo (or any other large base) or unintentionally blocking them when trying to PTL norra

first game out with them had me in this scenario, where I was going to Biggs block the Dengar sloop (though really Thane should be blocking so he can use his ability to roll/boost out of base 2 base and take his shot) only to realize the 2-foward you leave me really awkwardly positioned with no shot

fortunately the dengar got fancy and did a 4k maintains his ability I suppose? Not sure if it was a good play or not (was definitely unexpected), the group's still fresh to the whole dengaroo concept

the point: speed 3 greens on aux arcs can come in pretty dang handy, so it's nice that the aux arc already has the forward and can unlock the banks

As lomg as Manaroo is free to pass Dengar focus tokens, the K-turn is a fine choice, the white sloop is pretty predictable. It seems he got your Biggs in a tight spot

But yes the Tie MK/ 2 is great in a slot that I can't see beeing contested by anything else currently.

My main problem with the Tie/sf when listbuilding, is that it really fast becomes expensive with all the tech and system options, and for a 2 green ship, thats useually not that great.

idk, rage baffle quickdraw is a measly 2 points and VI FCS backdraft is 3

they're a crapton more modest than my ARCs. 26 point thane eats upgrades up to 34, and 29 point Norra just balloons herself to 40

As lomg as Manaroo is free to pass Dengar focus tokens, the K-turn is a fine choice, the white sloop is pretty predictable. It seems he got your Biggs in a tight spot

not as tight as the deathstar trench

(too soon?)

Except that i have a much higher than 50% winrate WITHOUT palpaces, i havent used soontir in over 3 months and seldom used him when i did.

Yes, soontir is superior. Know what he also is? insanely predictable because he has no leeway in his build or flypath. I dont like being predictable. I like throwing shoehorns or curveballs at my opponents, and palpaces CANNOT do that.

Only time i run palp is if im running RAC, since i seldom have a valid use for those other 2 cts anyway.

How are you predictable in a ship with as many options as a ptl Soontir?

Greedy Imperial players like to spout this line constantly, it's one of their excuses for Soontir not being broken. Either they're bad players themselves and they do obvious 2 hard green maneuvers that are easily blocked, or they face bad players that do this.

The Interceptor dial is one of the best dials for ditching stress in a non-predictable manner. Hearing Imperial players tell me how predictable it is is amusing.

Here is what you do with Soontir when you want to do a 2 hard turn but it would be easily blocked. You run away with a 4 green straight. Or you do the 2 hard green anyways because it would be easily predicted and your opponent wouldn't actually try to block you. Make your opponent commit to coin flips.

And if you block Soontir it's not as if you're doing damage anyways. With a 3/3 hit attack you have a 48% chance of doing nothing with bare 4 agility dice + Palpatine. That's IF you get 3 hits.