You're essentially giving the other player a free Electronic Baffle, so it can't be that awful if some people spend 1 of their own points to get the same effect. At least that's how I'll spin it when I throw it on a couple Zs.

You're essentially giving the other player a free Electronic Baffle, so it can't be that awful if some people spend 1 of their own points to get the same effect. At least that's how I'll spin it when I throw it on a couple Zs.

That's close, but Electronic Baffle is great because you can, for example, execute a red maneuver, receive the stress token, baffle it away, and still perform your action. If someone K-turns and gets hit by your BMST, they still didn't get that action which means the damage is almost pointless. True, they can do a white maneuver now that you've removed their stress token, but that's only part of why Electronic Baffle is useful.

Sure, a single one only has a 50% chance to slice away the stress. But if you have a slice swarm odds are good one of them will get it through.

Quick napkin math for the Slicer swarm diminishing returns:

1 Slicer: 50% chance to damage.

2 Slicers: 75% chance to damage

3 Slicers: 87.5% chance to damage

4 Slicers: 93.8% chance to damage

5 Slicers: 96.9% chance to damage

6 Slicers: 98.4% chance to damage

7 Slicers: 99.2% chance to damage

It seems like the sweet spot for having a solid chance of doing damage will probably be 3 or 4. More than that you are paying for coverage, redundancy, and better odds when there are multiple stress tokens to slice away at.

You're essentially giving the other player a free Electronic Baffle, so it can't be that awful if some people spend 1 of their own points to get the same effect. At least that's how I'll spin it when I throw it on a couple Zs.

That's close, but Electronic Baffle is great because you can, for example, execute a red maneuver, receive the stress token, baffle it away, and still perform your action. If someone K-turns and gets hit by your BMST, they still didn't get that action which means the damage is almost pointless. True, they can do a white maneuver now that you've removed their stress token, but that's only part of why Electronic Baffle is useful.

Unless you are using Slicer Tools on a lower PS ship, they can't really plan on having their dial up the following round. They almost need to set their dial assuming that they will still have the stress.

Someone post up their most pain in the ass BMST build for me. Like adding it to Brobots or other META staples, or Falcons and Dash or Scum Zs. And ill give it a run against my Palp Aces.

You're essentially giving the other player a free Electronic Baffle, so it can't be that awful if some people spend 1 of their own points to get the same effect. At least that's how I'll spin it when I throw it on a couple Zs.

That's close, but Electronic Baffle is great because you can, for example, execute a red maneuver, receive the stress token, baffle it away, and still perform your action. If someone K-turns and gets hit by your BMST, they still didn't get that action which means the damage is almost pointless. True, they can do a white maneuver now that you've removed their stress token, but that's only part of why Electronic Baffle is useful.

Unless you are using Slicer Tools on a lower PS ship, they can't really plan on having their dial up the following round. They almost need to set their dial assuming that they will still have the stress.

True, PS is very important for this discussion.

High PS BMST; Low PS stressed ship -- works as I said.

Low PS BMST; High PS stressed ship -- works as you said (which is also something I pointed out earlier today).

Return of the KRahsdnfksdaf.sd

Cartel Marauder (20)

Can't wait for slicer tools, will give a better reason to take up those generic z fillers, never been a fan of feedback array.

Someone post up their most pain in the ass BMST build for me. Like adding it to Brobots or other META staples, or Falcons and Dash or Scum Zs. And ill give it a run against my Palp Aces.

This list is undefeated for me so far, but admittedly, i havent run it against palp aces yet, as i haven't run into the local that runs them since the gencon spoil. It wouldnt be a fair test against anyone else local.

Someone post up their most pain in the ass BMST build for me. Like adding it to Brobots or other META staples, or Falcons and Dash or Scum Zs. And ill give it a run against my Palp Aces.

This list is undefeated for me so far, but admittedly, i havent run it against palp aces yet, as i haven't run into the local that runs them since the gencon spoil. It wouldnt be a fair test against anyone else local.

IG-88B

36

PS 6 (8)[/size] 3[/size] 3[/size] 4[/size] 4[/size]

Once per round, after you perform an attack that does not hit, you may perform an attack with an equipped secondary weapon.

Veteran Instincts

1

Increase your pilot skill value by 2.

Fire-Control System

2

After you perform an attack, you may acquire a target lock on the defender.

Heavy Laser Cannon

7

2-3[/size] 4[/size]

Attack: Attack 1 ship.

Immediately after rolling your attack dice, you must change all of your results to results.

Tractor Beam

1

1-3[/size] 3[/size]

Attack: Attack 1 ship.

If this attack hits, the defender receives 1 tractor beam token. Then cancel all dice results.

Black Market Slicer Tools

1

Action: Choose a stressed enemy ship at Range 1-2 and roll 1 attack die. On a () or () result, remove 1 stress token and deal it 1 facedown Damage card.

Autothrusters

2

When defending, if you are beyond Range 2 or outside the attacker's firing arc, you may change 1 of your blank results to a result. You can equip this card only if you have the action icon.

IG-2000

0

Aggressor only.

You have the pilot ability of each other friendly ship with the IG-2000 Upgrade card (in addition to your own pilot ability).

Ship Total: 50

IG-88C

36

PS 6 (8)[/size] 3[/size] 3[/size] 4[/size] 4[/size]

After you perform a boost action, you may perform a free evade action.

Veteran Instincts

1

Increase your pilot skill value by 2.

Fire-Control System

2

After you perform an attack, you may acquire a target lock on the defender.

Heavy Laser Cannon

7

2-3[/size] 4[/size]

Attack: Attack 1 ship.

Immediately after rolling your attack dice, you must change all of your results to results.

Tractor Beam

1

1-3[/size] 3[/size]

Attack: Attack 1 ship.

If this attack hits, the defender receives 1 tractor beam token. Then cancel all dice results.

Black Market Slicer Tools

1

Action: Choose a stressed enemy ship at Range 1-2 and roll 1 attack die. On a () or () result, remove 1 stress token and deal it 1 facedown Damage card.

Autothrusters

2

When defending, if you are beyond Range 2 or outside the attacker's firing arc, you may change 1 of your blank results to a result. You can equip this card only if you have the action icon.

IG-2000

0

Aggressor only.

You have the pilot ability of each other friendly ship with the IG-2000 Upgrade card (in addition to your own pilot ability).

Ship Total: 50

They need actions for defense. Giving it up to deal a dmg is probably the death of them

I actually never got paired vs IGs in a long time. Hmm.

I don't think I've lost to bro bots yet. Faced them various times on vassal and in tournaments. I don't think this squad is a place for slicers.

They need actions for defense. Giving it up to deal a dmg is probably the death of them

This Brobots list rocks with BMST. I have been playing it all week. I have tried it on pretty much every other viable Brobots list and this is the best list for it for my style. Its also the best list for my style, regardless of the illicit i choose, so for me, its the best option. From my experience, im only gonna get two realistic and meaningful shots with BMST per match anyways. Its there to make my opponent think about it being there, more so than it is for using. And from my experience, the second my opponent sees it on my list, they instantly have to start thinging about it and planning for it if they have any ships in the list with low hull count. Thats worth 2 points on this list. And as i have stated, thats the real value in BMST. The potential usage. Not the actual usage. opponents aces now cant mindlessly turtle or arc dodge. They have to use thoughtful actions against my list like every other ship.

However, as i have also stated, i think the real game changer is the new debris template, and i will likely be swapping that into this list as soon as i have the templates, for the foreseeable future.

I don't care to read through 6 pages so I'm sure I'll be echoing many other posters but here are my thoughts.

-While they're a cheap counter to self-stressers it doesn't render them obsolete.

-Lists comprised entirely of self-stressers will suffer more than ones that only dabble. Soontir+Inquisitor version of Palp Aces might start to favor Vader/Omega Leader. Soontir could use some time on the bench anyway. He's been heavily present for 6 of the 8 waves. That's not true of any other unique ship I can think of.

-While in some ways it hurts the few legit aces Rebels have (poor, poor Tycho), it also gives some others room to thrive. Whether it's Adv Sensors Corran, BB-8 Poe, or Sabine, Rebels can rock PtL and end up stress free better than anyone.

-It's a poor investment if you face a list without self-stressers. My prediction is more than 2 in a list will be extremely uncommon.

In summary, it's a meta shifter but not overpowered. It's a cheap, hard counter to a very specific and currently common mechanic of self-stressing for efficiency. Reliance on stress will decrease and things will balance out.

Someone post up their most pain in the ass BMST build for me. Like adding it to Brobots or other META staples, or Falcons and Dash or Scum Zs. And ill give it a run against my Palp Aces.

This list is undefeated for me so far, but admittedly, i havent run it against palp aces yet, as i haven't run into the local that runs them since the gencon spoil. It wouldnt be a fair test against anyone else local.

IG-88B

36

PS 6 (8)[/size] 3[/size] 3[/size] 4[/size] 4[/size]

Once per round, after you perform an attack that does not hit, you may perform an attack with an equipped secondary weapon.

Veteran Instincts

1

Increase your pilot skill value by 2.

Fire-Control System

2

After you perform an attack, you may acquire a target lock on the defender.

Heavy Laser Cannon

7

2-3[/size] 4[/size]

Attack: Attack 1 ship.

Immediately after rolling your attack dice, you must change all of your results to results.

Tractor Beam

1

1-3[/size] 3[/size]

Attack: Attack 1 ship.

If this attack hits, the defender receives 1 tractor beam token. Then cancel all dice results.

Black Market Slicer Tools

1

Action: Choose a stressed enemy ship at Range 1-2 and roll 1 attack die. On a () or () result, remove 1 stress token and deal it 1 facedown Damage card.

Autothrusters

2

When defending, if you are beyond Range 2 or outside the attacker's firing arc, you may change 1 of your blank results to a result. You can equip this card only if you have the action icon.

IG-2000

0

Aggressor only.

You have the pilot ability of each other friendly ship with the IG-2000 Upgrade card (in addition to your own pilot ability).

Ship Total: 50

IG-88C

36

PS 6 (8)[/size] 3[/size] 3[/size] 4[/size] 4[/size]

After you perform a boost action, you may perform a free evade action.

Veteran Instincts

1

Increase your pilot skill value by 2.

Fire-Control System

2

After you perform an attack, you may acquire a target lock on the defender.

Heavy Laser Cannon

7

2-3[/size] 4[/size]

Attack: Attack 1 ship.

Immediately after rolling your attack dice, you must change all of your results to results.

Tractor Beam

1

1-3[/size] 3[/size]

Attack: Attack 1 ship.

If this attack hits, the defender receives 1 tractor beam token. Then cancel all dice results.

Black Market Slicer Tools

1

Action: Choose a stressed enemy ship at Range 1-2 and roll 1 attack die. On a () or () result, remove 1 stress token and deal it 1 facedown Damage card.

Autothrusters

2

When defending, if you are beyond Range 2 or outside the attacker's firing arc, you may change 1 of your blank results to a result. You can equip this card only if you have the action icon.

IG-2000

0

Aggressor only.

You have the pilot ability of each other friendly ship with the IG-2000 Upgrade card (in addition to your own pilot ability).

Ship Total: 50

I don't think I've lost to bro bots yet. Faced them various times on vassal and in tournaments. I don't think this squad is a place for slicers.

They need actions for defense. Giving it up to deal a dmg is probably the death of them

A few thoughts.

1) If you're playing VI HLC FCS bots then you need a 98 point bid to move after all the other PS8s. This is really not optional.

2) When you move 2nd with bots you almost never want to joust.

3) To really leverage moving 2nd with this list requires some homework in the obstacle placement and deployment.

4) VI bots weaknesses are Triple Boats (slicers doesn't help there), and PS9+ aces (slicers REALLY helps there). Vs a competent aces player, VI bots vs PS9+ Palp Aces is virtually an auto loss.

5) Black Market Slicers (replacing Inertial Dampeners) actually makes PS8 bots viable again. They actually NEED slicers to be competitive. If I were going to Worlds (I'm not) this is almost certainly the list I would take.

What about 8 PS 1 Scum Z-95's and 4 BMST's/ 3 BMST's and a Thread Tracer?

Against anything not phased by BMST's you have 8 ships. Against anything phased by BMST's, you have 4 of them.

This is one of those times I have to sit down and have a talk with my K-Wing pilots to explain the stress mechanic to them, as they're usually too busy dropping various nasty bits around the battlefield to remember stress exists.

Someone post up their most pain in the ass BMST build for me. Like adding it to Brobots or other META staples, or Falcons and Dash or Scum Zs. And ill give it a run against my Palp Aces.

I don't think I've lost to bro bots yet. Faced them various times on vassal and in tournaments. I don't think this squad is a place for slicers.

They need actions for defense. Giving it up to deal a dmg is probably the death of them

A few thoughts.

1) If you're playing VI HLC FCS bots then you need a 98 point bid to move after all the other PS8s. This is really not optional.

2) When you move 2nd with bots you almost never want to joust.

3) To really leverage moving 2nd with this list requires some homework in the obstacle placement and deployment.

4) VI bots weaknesses are Triple Boats (slicers doesn't help there), and PS9+ aces (slicers REALLY helps there). Vs a competent aces player, VI bots vs PS9+ Palp Aces is virtually an auto loss.

5) Black Market Slicers (replacing Inertial Dampeners) actually makes PS8 bots viable again. They actually NEED slicers to be competitive. If I were going to Worlds (I'm not) this is almost certainly the list I would take.

Thanks for your thoughts, and i agree entirely. If i was taking this to worlds i would drop the Tractors for the two point initiative bid. But i have too much fun with them to drop them in non super competitive games, and they are there to practice for side builds with the new shadow caster prior to getting the ship. Agree 100% with everything you said though.