It looks like you said you were self-treating this. If that is the case, and you have not gone to seek a professional behavior specialist, you're not going to be successful. Sounds harsh but true.

If you have received a mental health professional's treatment, just go back to what you worked out with that person.

Coming to a gamer forum where you already have a reputation isn't going to solve your issues.

Everyone learns and digests information differently.

I don't understand, I've read a lot of your posts over time reading here, well before I registered, and apart from things like plugging DTO which rubbed me the wrong way, or obvious statements, nothing and I mean nothing I have seen from you warrants being ostracized.

I don't see you being nasty or abusive, I know people can create online personas that are totally different from how they behave in the real world, but if that was the case, you certainly would not be talking about Asperger's and your issues interacting with others.

I can only see two things, one your issues interacting and understanding, and two telling strangers why you did something you did(Asperger's). Never ever tell total strangers you have Asperger's or it can make you act in a sh*tty way, it will create in them an automatic negative impression of you, where someone else they would just write things off to a bad day, or being a bit uptight, instead every single thing you do they do not like they will associate with Asperger's, to the point that they will feel guilty about engaging with you, and then afterwards they will resent it, and once that starts, you can forget about it, it is far less hassle for them to have nothing to do with you, than it is to try.

And I am saying this as someone who also suffers from a Neurological Disorder. Only people who are friends will even try and understand, a stranger will stand there making sympathetic sounds, and making nice, and once they escape from your orbit, you have black marked yourself. They will never know if playing you will be fun, or will it be bad, because something triggers you, while playing.

My advice is, stop telling strangers, let them think what ever they will, just like they have to when they play someone else. a guy who is a bit uptight is one thing, a guy who has a disorder they don't understand, is just a hassle when they are out for some stress release.

If you do take a break, make sure when you go back, do not talk about it, stick to things that are safe topics, and just slowly let them see you are no different to anyone else, everyone has times they get pissy or mad or is not much fun to be around, because everyone has problems some where in their life.

I don't understand, I've read a lot of your posts over time reading here, well before I registered, and apart from things like plugging DTO which rubbed me the wrong way, or obvious statements, nothing and I mean nothing I have seen from you warrants being ostracized.

I don't see you being nasty or abusive, I know people can create online personas that are totally different from how they behave in the real world, but if that was the case, you certainly would not be talking about Asperger's and your issues interacting with others.

I can only see two things, one your issues interacting and understanding, and two telling strangers why you did something you did(Asperger's). Never ever tell total strangers you have Asperger's or it can make you act in a sh*tty way, it will create in them an automatic negative impression of you, where someone else they would just write things off to a bad day, or being a bit uptight, instead every single thing you do they do not like they will associate with Asperger's, to the point that they will feel guilty about engaging with you, and then afterwards they will resent it, and once that starts, you can forget about it, it is far less hassle for them to have nothing to do with you, than it is to try.

And I am saying this as someone who also suffers from a Neurological Disorder. Only people who are friends will even try and understand, a stranger will stand there making sympathetic sounds, and making nice, and once they escape from your orbit, you have black marked yourself. They will never know if playing you will be fun, or will it be bad, because something triggers you, while playing.

My advice is, stop telling strangers, let them think what ever they will, just like they have to when they play someone else. a guy who is a bit uptight is one thing, a guy who has a disorder they don't understand, is just a hassle when they are out for some stress release.

If you do take a break, make sure when you go back, do not talk about it, stick to things that are safe topics, and just slowly let them see you are no different to anyone else, everyone has times they get pissy or mad or is not much fun to be around, because everyone has problems some where in their life.

Sound advice. Thank you!

You are welcome.

And please note, I am not advocating hiding yourself from others, just save the personal stuff for people that are friends, or become friends. Sadly a lot of people are not worth the trust implicit in such a revelation.

Disclaimer: will probably refrence things in the masculine as opposed to gender neutral it's the way my brain works but it applies to males and females

Social disorders are tough and can take years of applying selfrestraint and evaluation to overcome/improve with lapses that still happen, as a high functioning aspergers gamer for the last 18 years (I'm 32 atm and obviously delt with social issues before I was 14 but keeping this related to the gaming scene) I still strugle and lapse from time to time, despite guidance and self evaluation, My dbz group that i recently joined has a guy just getting into gaming with aspergers and they don't see the similarities between us and don't get the diference of reactions attitudes between us, he is however more severe than I ever was and is starting in the scene later than me, it'll be harder on him to adjust/adapt behaviours if he will even be able to I don't know enough about his condition to really comment on him further than that.

With the above said if the guy this discussion is about has a social disorder, he may not be able to change, he might be able to make slow progress, he might make faster progress, the guy could just generally be a **** without a social disorder. It's a tough topic to bring up and address and said person may not want to open up, I just recomend going slow, staying calm and letting him know he is going a little off the rails, suggest a break and come back to it later, all things harder in a tournament situation as well.

Results will vary and may not be successful, hopefully you can get your group on board with giving the guy many chances but be firm and give him break perriods if he starts slipping to far, after a while discuss it with him and slowly guide him back in I had a great group of older gamers when I was young do this for me and it helped me alot.

Finaly if he is younger read teenager and your older read 25+ maybe see if you can have a word with his parents, be respectful when you aproach and ask them about him maybe while he is looking to get something or is busy with something else (it could go cactus, they might be able to help your group manage frustrations with him) the parents could be sensitive about it but if you let them know your trying to help him intergrate into the group without him just getting a cold shoulder and for him to start building a bigger network of friends I would hope they would be on board.

Sorry for the wordy post.

Edit: I was on page 1 when I typed this up, I've since read more of the thread (page 3).... Lyr If you really are talking about yourself, as much as you love this game and think you have improved, take some time off and reflect a little bit, after a month put out some feelers talk to the players in your play groups and try and get them too give you the guidance I had and a soft re-entry back, give them full disclosure and see if they will be willing to pause friendlies mid game for lunch breaks and stuff which will give you time to also reflect and adjust, if things bug you as I'm sure they will, take a deep breath first try to let it slide and maybe suggest a break yourself as well and just say you are trying to manage yourself a bit.

One of the last things congratulations at the end of a game i went that route while still adjusting and thought i was doing better socially but came over as way too condesinding and it took practise, so maybe you are just in that stage, it can push people away just as much or more.

Anyway back to reading the thread.

One of the best things you can do is own your faults. Most adult human beings will respect another who owns their faults because we have faults of our own that we want others to overlook as well. Every man should have a very large graveyard in which to bury the faults of his friends.\

And self-esteem is essential to interacting well with others. I'll never forget in my younger days when I was a freshman in college that someone mentioned, "You're hard on others because you're hard on yourself." Being hard oneself is a path to excellence, but being able to forgive oneself, which is essential to a stable, secure identity and the development of self-esteem means that you'll also forgive others more readily.

We're talking about self-development here. It doesn't come easy and it doesn't come quickly, but the social rewards make it well worth it.

This I get. I have been improving myself since I was 13 and realized then that I had so much to learn but it is very difficult. It is like scaling a mountain. People say things like "be more humble", or "have more modesty" and I am literally over here trying to figure out how one does that. I have not identified what is humbleness in myself, and for those of you who don't know what Aspergers is, that is what many of us with this Autistic disorder have to do. We have to Identify what that emotion, trait, etc is, identify how it is used, and then look for what we can do to emulate X until we get it. So when I say I am not trying to do X, I mean I have no idea what that is 9 times out of 10 because I have not identified it in myself.

People telling me to do X broad scope thing does not help. It is like a giant pile of sand hiding a clam with a pearl in inside.

Hmmm I think this turned into a rant when none was meant initially

bold my addition, biggest thing in relation to this Stop saying you are a good player stop saying you are 3rd best in your local area after other guys x and y, stop saying you are smart.... The amount i see you mention those on the forums It would lead me to believe you say them irl if you never say these things again to anyone other than your closest of mates who know you don't mean any malice behind it and have accepted you for you faults and all, that would be a good start.

Edit: finally caught up with the thread, if Beatty is willing (at least seems willing to help here he may not be) as it seems you are in the same play group maybe try and arrange more games around him and learn from him, but he would be a good support network. But definately take a step back from the tournament scene play casual only for a while keep it with close friends if you don't abandon the game entirely, and listen reflect on yourself and adjust until you learn the behavious to step forwad. When you make the right progress step back into a more competative scene, slowly and own your mistakes, apologise when you do slip up as it will happen and use those times to reflect further and go forward from that.

It's worthwhile to note that Lyraeus does have a support network within the Armada community. That network does work to salve relations with the broader local community, as well as coaching him to sand the burrs off of his behavior. As he fears, there are probably going to be some people who will make up their mind and have that be that, but I think those people will be in the minority.

That said, and as he has responsibly acknowledged, some of the behavior has been horrible, and those burrs do need a lot of work and greater self-awareness. We (the support network) do need to work a little harder to make him cognizant of it when he is approaching the derailment moments. This involves the lows (expressing his frustration with himself when the games are not going well), but also the highs (when things are going well, it does not need to be broadcast to everybody in the environs).

Also, people need to be given the space to play our own games, and even be allowed to follow our own train of thoughts. Aspergers is not the only neurodevelopmental disorder that people in the community have. Just as it helps when people in his environs are aware of his problem, he needs to be aware of and sensitive to the problems that other people have.

I am sure all of this is not just applicable to our community, but to many other communities as well.

Having just played you Ly, I think there's some good, friendly advice that I can provide I mean, when you watch our game Twitch, if you have the vlog, you can catch some of the things you say as well.

In some instances, I wasn't sure if you were the same person. You would tease one minute, saying something overconfident or even cocky depending on how you look at it, but then say something like "I'm going to lose" the next minute after. Then there's instances where if you're having fun, you can clearly see it by what you're typing, but when things go poorly for you, you can also see it pretty noticeably with distinctly negative comments. When you react to those situations, your mood changes pretty harshly and quickly. I can only assume what you type is how you feel, so this might be what other people have eluded to in this thread again so I'm not going to re-hash.

This is another reason why I think it's easier to play with a mic with someone online. Humans interact a great deal through tone and candid conversation. I have no doubt that while some of this might be behavioral in nature, if we had a conversation rather than just words, the game would have been much easier to interrupt (feelings wise), and it would have been faster to play and more fun as well. Through work Emails and on the internet, you can clearly see that others might think I'm a jerk (I'm very direct by nature). But when you see me on Twitch and talking to me in person, it's a completely different experience. I actually joke, laugh and am a huge pusher for fun in person; hence why I prefer to play with a mic. It adds another level of empathy that I think is typically missing among gamers these days

Edit: I stand by my kill it with fire meme though as currently, I do not have a substantial enough reply for how to deal with those people. I'll circle back around to this eventually.

Having just played you Ly, I think there's some good, friendly advice that I can provide I mean, when you watch our game Twitch, if you have the vlog, you can catch some of the things you say as well.

In some instances, I wasn't sure if you were the same person. You would tease one minute, saying something overconfident or even cocky depending on how you look at it, but then say something like "I'm going to lose" the next minute after. Then there's instances where if you're having fun, you can clearly see it by what you're typing, but when things go poorly for you, you can also see it pretty noticeably with distinctly negative comments. When you react to those situations, your mood changes pretty harshly and quickly. I can only assume what you type is how you feel, so this might be what other people have eluded to in this thread again so I'm not going to re-hash.

This is another reason why I think it's easier to play with a mic with someone online. Humans interact a great deal through tone and candid conversation. I have no doubt that while some of this might be behavioral in nature, if we had a conversation rather than just words, the game would have been much easier to interrupt (feelings wise), and it would have been faster to play and more fun as well. Through work Emails and on the internet, you can clearly see that others might think I'm a jerk (I'm very direct by nature). But when you see me on Twitch and talking to me in person, it's a completely different experience. I actually joke, laugh and am a huge pusher for fun in person; hence why I prefer to play with a mic. It adds another level of empathy that I think is typically missing among gamers these days

Edit: I stand by my kill it with fire meme though as currently, I do not have a substantial enough reply for how to deal with those people. I'll circle back around to this eventually.

I do type with how I feel. A mic is on my list to buy so our next game we can banter that way

Yea I do go hit and miss. I was talking to daht in the background during the game. He offered no advice but it allowed me to spout my thoughts and worries to someone who bantered with me. There were a few frustrating times in the game, some due to my own issue of wanting to be brief on what I am saying (well, thinking people will understand) and then there was the kerfuffle which I think I caused by trying to hit the undo and I hit the forward on accident. Then there was the Ackbar Modify question, which I have been really good at recently on not just pointing it out when it occurs though it drives me nuts. . .

Lyr, I offer this as a nothing but positive advice:


I think, based on your history of posting, that some of your assumptions about hobby-gaming are inaccurate, and as such it may be contributing to your difficulty in meshing with a gaming community (which is absolutely essential to enjoy this game):


(1) Games are meant to be fun.

I think there may be a chance that you assume that Armada is meant to be a purely mental exercise; an activity to see who plays the "best" and wins. This is only a small part of the story. For most, Armada is a hobby, meaning it's something that people choose to do with their precious free time to have fun. If people aren't having fun--regardless of rather they are winning and losing--they won't want to do it anymore. Whenever I see a young nephew getting really mad at a video game I ask them if they are having fun. When they respond that they are not and they are frustrated and mad, I remind them that games are meant to be fun and if they're not having fun they should just do something else instead with their time.

The mental exercise and the thrill of competition are parts of the game, sure, but they should be ancillary parts. If someone just wants exercise, they should be working on a doctorate or doing puzzles or something. If they just want mental competition they should be playing something like Chess or Go (which you'll note at the higher levels does tend to attract people with little to no interest in the social aspects of the game), as those games don't have all the randomness and sillyness and lack of balance that Armada has. Armada is an Ameri-Trash game (versus a Eurogame), but that's why many of it love it.

So, the bottom line is that if you cannot enjoy a game of Armada regardless of if you're winning or losing you should really go find a different hobby because it's always going to be a point of friction and you're missing the point of the hobby entirely. Chess or Go have lots of online communities and will offer similar intellectual stimulation and competition.

(2) You're not as good as you think you are.

You are insufferably arrogant, and I don't know any other way to put this. You routinely interject that you're a good player, and act as if it having a chance to play against someone of your talents is a goddamn privilege mere average players should cherish. This mindset will rub everyone the wrong way. Humility is more enjoyable than arrogance. Furthermore, there is no objective "goodness" that separates players out on some heirarchy, in part because...

(3) The best player doesn't always win a game/tournament of Armada.

Armada is not a game where the "best" player or the "best" decisions will always win. Think about two professional sports teams full of some of the best players in the world. When they play each other it's not just to see who the "best" team is, it's to see who wins that game. Winning does not equate best, and best in that sense is a misnomer. Take any given Superbowl. If the two teams invovled played each other in a 10 game series, they might finish at 5 wins and 5 losses each. Hell, the team that lost might win eight of the ten engagements. It's not about determining who's good or bad overall, but it's seeing who wins this particular game today. Look at X-Wing, some of the "best" players in the world have tourneys they do well at and tourneys they do terribly at, that's just how it goes. Paul Heaver, three-time X-Wing World Champion, went 0-3 before dropping at X-Wing last year at Gencon for instance. This doesn't mean he's not a good player, as tons of things go into the outcome of the game.

As noted above, Armada is an Ameri-Trash game. It has lots of luck, like it or not. Sure, players can mitigate luck or try to swing it in their favor, but it's always there. At Gencon, I lost a game in Round 6 because 5 out of 6 of my black dice from my Reikkan Aces bombers came up blank, leaving a crippled ship alive. I also scored a lot more points then I should have in a game because my MC30 rolled HC+HC+HC+C+Acc on it's first shot. Pairings are also usually influential: sometimes you'll pair against a list that is a bad match-up, sometimes against a list which is an easy match-up. How your opponent plays is also a huge factor. Armada tourneys are typically won by the player whose opponents were the most reckless and aggressive and who fly right in and give up 9 or 10 points. If you pair against careful and conservative players who kite away you might not be able to ever get more than 6 points.

The person who wins an Armada tourney will always have to be both lucky AND good on that day. But it'll never just be pure skill.



I think accepting some of these points might help you have a better attitude toward Armada. And if you cannot accept some of these points, ie you insist upon arguing them, then Armada might not be the best hobby for you.

(2) You're not as good as you think you are.

You are insufferably arrogant, and I don't know any other way to put this. You routinely interject that you're a good player, and act as if it having a chance to play against someone of your talents is a goddamn privilege mere average players should cherish. This mindset will rub everyone the wrong way. Humility is more enjoyable than arrogance. Furthermore, there is no objective "goodness" that separates players out on some heirarchy, in part because...

I have always given people the benefit fo the doubt on how good they are till I have played them. If you want, I can show you my skill level. You can say I am not good or as good as I think I am but remember that I am always basing my skill level off of a small pond. I have not played in a giant tournament though I wish I could. Until then I have to live with the ranking structure around me. As for thinking I am good, I am told I am good and I know I am near the top in my area because of my win record and who has and has not been able to beat me out of the games we have played.

(1) Games are meant to be fun.

I think there may be a chance that you assume that Armada is meant to be a purely mental exercise; an activity to see who plays the "best" and wins. This is only a small part of the story. For most, Armada is a hobby, meaning it's something that people choose to do with their precious free time to have fun. If people aren't having fun--regardless of rather they are winning and losing--they won't want to do it anymore. Whenever I see a young nephew getting really mad at a video game I ask them if they are having fun. When they respond that they are not and they are frustrated and mad, I remind them that games are meant to be fun and if they're not having fun they should just do something else instead with their time.

The mental exercise and the thrill of competition are parts of the game, sure, but they should be ancillary parts. If someone just wants exercise, they should be working on a doctorate or doing puzzles or something. If they just want mental competition they should be playing something like Chess or Go (which you'll note at the higher levels does tend to attract people with little to no interest in the social aspects of the game), as those games don't have all the randomness and sillyness and lack of balance that Armada has. Armada is an Ameri-Trash game (versus a Eurogame), but that's why many of it love it.

So, the bottom line is that if you cannot enjoy a game of Armada regardless of if you're winning or losing you should really go find a different hobby because it's always going to be a point of friction and you're missing the point of the hobby entirely. Chess or Go have lots of online communities and will offer similar intellectual stimulation and competition.

See, everyone has a different value on what is "fun". For me it is new things, new ideas, new concepts put out there and tested and played. Its interesting and provides a mental challenge and I enjoy.

Others want to make pew pew sounds and command large ships. Thats good but its not my ultimate goal.

In my last tournament I lost the last game. I did not go into the tournament to win though, I went to play and that was relaxing. I think that is what other people do. They play to play.

Chess and Go are fine but they dont hit that itch. Moves, plans, ideas, concepts, etc have been roughly mapped out. In Armada, I can do the mapping out because it is new and maybe not tested.

(3) The best player doesn't always win a game/tournament of Armada.

Armada is not a game where the "best" player or the "best" decisions will always win. Think about two professional sports teams full of some of the best players in the world. When they play each other it's not just to see who the "best" team is, it's to see who wins that game. Winning does not equate best, and best in that sense is a misnomer. Take any given Superbowl. If the two teams invovled played each other in a 10 game series, they might finish at 5 wins and 5 losses each. Hell, the team that lost might win eight of the ten engagements. It's not about determining who's good or bad overall, but it's seeing who wins this particular game today. Look at X-Wing, some of the "best" players in the world have tourneys they do well at and tourneys they do terribly at, that's just how it goes. Paul Heaver, three-time X-Wing World Champion, went 0-3 before dropping at X-Wing last year at Gencon for instance. This doesn't mean he's not a good player, as tons of things go into the outcome of the game.

As noted above, Armada is an Ameri-Trash game. It has lots of luck, like it or not. Sure, players can mitigate luck or try to swing it in their favor, but it's always there. At Gencon, I lost a game in Round 6 because 5 out of 6 of my black dice from my Reikkan Aces bombers came up blank, leaving a crippled ship alive. I also scored a lot more points then I should have in a game because my MC30 rolled HC+HC+HC+C+Acc on it's first shot. Pairings are also usually influential: sometimes you'll pair against a list that is a bad match-up, sometimes against a list which is an easy match-up. How your opponent plays is also a huge factor. Armada tourneys are typically won by the player whose opponents were the most reckless and aggressive and who fly right in and give up 9 or 10 points. If you pair against careful and conservative players who kite away you might not be able to ever get more than 6 points.

The person who wins an Armada tourney will always have to be both lucky AND good on that day. But it'll never just be pure skill.

What were your dice like for the rest of the game? Hot? Lukewarm? Cold? What were your tactics? Could you of focused on a particular ship less and got the other one? Could you of changed up your activation order to get a different outcome?

Dice are vital to the game sure and I have gotten super frustrated with dice on many occassion. I have learned to just grab new dice though and work with that. Ultimately it averages out so I cant be upset anymore (well as much ) with critical rolls. Hell I had a game with 4 nebs and salvation rolled I think 3 of its 4 rolls as all blanks! Man I was mad at the red dice

If you think Armada is won by capitalizing on who was most aggressive I think you would be wrong. Yes you need to be aggressive to get a strong win and it works a lot but I think that there is more than that. You dont need to rush in. Oh I have lost and won many games like that but in the end there are more games where its less about the charge as much as it is on responding and having a plan of action.

You do hit on a lot of great points but somethings I really dont know how to equate or translate into a way that makes sense. Your statement of people not having fun when they are losing and so they should find a new game I think is wrong. You bring up Paul Heever who lost 0-3 before dropping at Gencon. Do you think he was having fun losing? Did you have fun losing? Did you enjoy having all those blanks?

Overall you can enjoy a game but can you tell yourself the entire game was fun when something goes bad? Hmmmmm I am actually curious on how many people can do that. . . I wonder how many just smile and move on never really having fun there. . .

Lyraeus, do you consider me to be a good player?

I've said my peace, and you're free to disagree with any or all of the points as you see fit (though I think failure to accept these basics assumptions about the game will provide a continual hurdle to your attempts to meld with a gaming community in a non-toxic way).


I will address one point: you asked if I think Paul Heaver had fun going 0-3 or if I enjoy my losses? The answer is yes, though not nearly as much as I enjoy winning (I'm a very competitive person and I take tournaments pretty seriously). The thing is, though, as much as I want to win or as much as I might try to play my best game possible, I still realize that a day of losing Armada amongst friends is still better than a day of doing most other things (even if it's not as fun as a day winning Armada).


It's like that old saying "A bad day of fishing beats the best day at work."

The difference is, when I and most people have a bad day fishing we might be a little muffed but we still feel satisfied and act respectful. When you have a bad day fishing, you throw a fit and ruin the fishing trip for everyone else with you and also opine about your failures and the difficulty of accepting them on the forums for the entire fishing community to have to see.

Which makes me think that your enjoyment (or lack thereof) in losing is far different in kind from that of most players, even if it's true that no one likes losing as much as they like winning. I feel like you go in expecting to win an Armada tournament, like you deserve to win the game/tournament because you're a "good" player in a "small pond," and this causes you to be overly hard on yourself when you don't and to simultaneously discredit the efforts or talents of your opponents (since it's your mistakes that cost you a game you deserved to win, and not their ability to make good decisions to outplay you).


PS: I say all of this out of a desire to be helpful. I want you to be able to more fully enjoy the game, even when you lose, and I want you to be able to be a part of a happy bustling local Armada community. I'm rooting for you and your community to resolve your past tensions, so please don't misunderstand anything I've said as anything other than coming from good intentions.

Lyraeus, do you consider me to be a good player?

Lyraeus, do you consider me to be a good player?

**** straight I do. I consider everyone a good player and then evaluate them at skill level. You can be a good player and be bad at the game because you stick with it. I did. I won very few games and did not get a tournament win till last December.

I asked because you referenced your win record as the reason you think you are good.

I have won less than 25% of my games on a table.

I've said my peace, and you're free to disagree with any or all of the points as you see fit (though I think failure to accept these basics assumptions about the game will provide a continual hurdle to your attempts to meld with a gaming community in a non-toxic way).

I will address one point: you asked if I think Paul Heaver had fun going 0-3 or if I enjoy my losses? The answer is yes, though not nearly as much as I enjoy winning (I'm a very competitive person and I take tournaments pretty seriously). The thing is, though, as much as I want to win or as much as I might try to play my best game possible, I still realize that a day of losing Armada amongst friends is still better than a day of doing most other things (even if it's not as fun as a day winning Armada).

It's like that old saying "A bad day of fishing beats the best day at work."

The difference is, when I and most people have a bad day fishing we might be a little muffed but we still feel satisfied and act respectful. When you have a bad day fishing, you throw a fit and ruin the fishing trip for everyone else with you and also opine about your failures and the difficulty of accepting them on the forums for the entire fishing community to have to see.

Which makes me think that your enjoyment (or lack thereof) in losing is far different in kind from that of most players, even if it's true that no one likes losing as much as they like winning. I feel like you go in expecting to win an Armada tournament, like you deserve to win the game/tournament because you're a "good" player in a "small pond," and this causes you to be overly hard on yourself when you don't and to simultaneously discredit the efforts or talents of your opponents (since it's your mistakes that cost you a game you deserved to win, and not their ability to make good decisions to outplay you).PS: I say all of this out of a desire to be helpful. I want you to be able to more fully enjoy the game, even when you lose, and I want you to be able to be a part of a happy bustling local Armada community. I'm rooting for you and your community to resolve your past tensions, so please don't misunderstand anything I've said as anything other than coming from good intentions.

I want to enjoy my games as well and I do. I like looking back and thinking what I could have done differently.

The problem is my interactions with my opponents not. The game or being happy with a game. The issues are me. To boisterous when winning, too whiny when I mess up, and morose when I get outplayed.

It's very hard to work on these things but I am. Just need tips and goals. . .

Lyraeus, do you consider me to be a good player?

**** straight I do. I consider everyone a good player and then evaluate them at skill level. You can be a good player and be bad at the game because you stick with it. I did. I won very few games and did not get a tournament win till last December.

I asked because you referenced your win record as the reason you think you are good.

I have won less than 25% of my games on a table.

I think if I was to play myself I would consider myself a bad player. The question is though, would that be my opinion or the opinions I garnered from others. . .

I find the idea that aggressive play is somehow a disadvantage amusing. I'm probably the most incredibly aggressive, get in your face with my whole fleet by turn two player there is, and for all of last year since the game came out I was considered top dog in the Louisville area.

Not to say careful and considered play has its place.....but in just the full speed ahead and **** the torpedoes type. Somehow I seem to make it work!

I guess my point is that the game is so varied in scope as to accommodate different styles with ease.

I find the idea that aggressive play is somehow a disadvantage. I'm probably the most incredibly aggressive, get in your face with my whole fleet by turn two player there is, and for all of last year since the game came out I was considered top dog in the Louisville area.

Not to say careful and considered play has its place.....but in just the full speed ahead and **** the torpedoes type. Somehow I seem to make it work!

I guess my point is that the game is so varied in scope as to accommodate different styles with ease.

Nothing I could say here would actually help you since you refuse to accept any criticism.

Nothing I could say here would actually help you since you refuse to accept any criticism.

See here I am confused. You want me to blindly accept something without first testing it? What is this religion?

I am accepting your criticism but you are giving it blind.

(2) You're not as good as you think you are.

You are insufferably arrogant, and I don't know any other way to put this. You routinely interject that you're a good player, and act as if it having a chance to play against someone of your talents is a goddamn privilege mere average players should cherish. This mindset will rub everyone the wrong way. Humility is more enjoyable than arrogance. Furthermore, there is no objective "goodness" that separates players out on some heirarchy, in part because...

I have always given people the benefit fo the doubt on how good they are till I have played them. If you want, I can show you my skill level. You can say I am not good or as good as I think I am but remember that I am always basing my skill level off of a small pond. I have not played in a giant tournament though I wish I could. Until then I have to live with the ranking structure around me. As for thinking I am good, I am told I am good and I know I am near the top in my area because of my win record and who has and has not been able to beat me out of the games we have played.

I wanted to quote this section here, Lyr do you rememebr in my post a while back I said one of the things to do is to stop talking/referencing how good you are. This here is a great example, AllWingsStandyingBy is trying to offer help in his way, but what you are doing here is going defensive and automatically posturing to prove you are good and try to back up your points on this... I did this when I was younger and realise now it comes off as let me prove I am better than you (even though you don't say that it gets heavily implied with how people read things and even in speach over text it can come off that way as well even with added benefit of tone of voice misunderstandings occur.) so all that really does is alienate and push people further away, so basically that's why I said don't mention it or bring it up again. Work on not letting peoples comment's like that bait you into that response, they may not be trying to arc you up for 1 and 2 it'll actually show growth on your part. I generally just let things like that slide these days (I still fail at that occasionally.... probably more than I want to admit, and maybe this is you failing, but it's much easier to delete something after typing it instead of going ahead and posting it anyway).

Hope that helps.

Nothing I could say here would actually help you since you refuse to accept any criticism.

See here I am confused. You want me to blindly accept something without first testing it? What is this religion?

I am accepting your criticism but you are giving it blind.

Your responses in this thread lead him to make that determination, even if you are trying to restrain yourself and umming and arring before posting on the your side of the keyboard we can only read what you do post and your posting trend in this thread does come off as disregard everyone's imput (you may not be doing that, I realise this could be you restraining yourself and not realising how much further you might need to based on interactions) you say his criticism is blind, If you don't know him IRL you have no idea if he has had this issue to deal with before or with someone else ands guided them, if you do then his criticism is far from blind as he has first hand experience of you to make his determinations.

Lyr hopefully you don't take me as being to harsh or critical here, I'm only trying to offer help on what's worked for me to make progress, I know I'm probably sounding arrogant and selfrightous because i've made changes to me and it might come accross like I've done it so you can to and change on a dime, I know it'll take time and effort and just trying to point out things that I wouldn't have recognised before and that I can now in an effort to help.

I'm almost afraid to offer any advice here but here goes. Lyraeus, your self worth should not be based on how good of an Armada player you are or how you stack up in your community. The people you are playing aren't using their win/loss record to determine wether they are good or not. I'd venture to guess that the enjoyment of the match is far more important than the results.

I'm new to the Armada community and to table top miniature gaming as well. I was looking for a new hobby that wasn't musically related and Disney just rebooted the Star Wars franchise so it seemed like a good idea. Unfortunately for me, Armada doesn't seem to be catching on around here but that is another issue. I wan't to attempt to come at you from a different angle as far as enjoying a hobby and not gaming per say. I have been playing in bands since I was 14 or almost 30 years now. I enjoy the hell out of it, all of it, the good stuff along with the bad parts. The bad moments make the good times that much better and years later when my friends reminisce about gigs, it is always the bad ones that we talk about because they are funny in hindsight and make great stories. Don't get me wrong, the good gigs are great but the bad ones don't suck.

Now to try to relate. I used to be really hard on myself whenever I made a mistake and would let that ruin my mood and make me feel like I wasn't that good of a musician. I would listen to recordings of performances and and count the mistakes that I made and get a little depressed about it. I would generally ignore the good stuff because I was so focused on the bad. Over time and with the help of some great band mates, I learned to laugh off my mistakes. Instead of getting frustrated I would crack a smile or make eye contact with someone else in the band and smile or shrug and it would be no big deal. Once, after a gig where I had made a number of mistakes, someone from the audience came up to me after the gig and commented on how much fun I was to watch because I was smiling a lot and seemed to be having a lot of fun on stage. I was thinking that that was not one of my better gigs but after the comment I thought, while maybe not the best performance, I did have a lot of fun. Now I don't want you to get the idea that I am a crappy musician that makes a lot of mistakes, I just want you to understand that you can turn something negative into something positive. Also at the same time, I would never go around and brag about how good I thought I was or how good my band was. I would prefer to let my actions do the talking and let you make your own decisions.

Now a gig isn't the same as a game where there is a winner and a loser. However, even at some of my not so favorite gigs, I still enjoy the interactions created by a group of guys (or gals) that are putting on a performance (or even during rehearsal). I equate this to enjoying the game wether you win or lose. You can't win all the time so you might as well enjoy the experience.

I think you are putting too much energy into focusing on the problem and need to just relax and have fun. Don't just put "Remember to Command Casual!" on your signature without really thinking about what it means and living it. To be honest after reading this thread, I don't know if I'd want to play you because I'd be worried about how you rated me based on your comments about other players.

I'm almost afraid to offer any advice here but here goes. Lyraeus, your self worth should not be based on how good of an Armada player you are or how you stack up in your community. The people you are playing aren't using their win/loss record to determine wether they are good or not. I'd venture to guess that the enjoyment of the match is far more important than the results.

I'm new to the Armada community and to table top miniature gaming as well. I was looking for a new hobby that wasn't musically related and Disney just rebooted the Star Wars franchise so it seemed like a good idea. Unfortunately for me, Armada doesn't seem to be catching on around here but that is another issue. I wan't to attempt to come at you from a different angle as far as enjoying a hobby and not gaming per say. I have been playing in bands since I was 14 or almost 30 years now. I enjoy the hell out of it, all of it, the good stuff along with the bad parts. The bad moments make the good times that much better and years later when my friends reminisce about gigs, it is always the bad ones that we talk about because they are funny in hindsight and make great stories. Don't get me wrong, the good gigs are great but the bad ones don't suck.

Now to try to relate. I used to be really hard on myself whenever I made a mistake and would let that ruin my mood and make me feel like I wasn't that good of a musician. I would listen to recordings of performances and and count the mistakes that I made and get a little depressed about it. I would generally ignore the good stuff because I was so focused on the bad. Over time and with the help of some great band mates, I learned to laugh off my mistakes. Instead of getting frustrated I would crack a smile or make eye contact with someone else in the band and smile or shrug and it would be no big deal. Once, after a gig where I had made a number of mistakes, someone from the audience came up to me after the gig and commented on how much fun I was to watch because I was smiling a lot and seemed to be having a lot of fun on stage. I was thinking that that was not one of my better gigs but after the comment I thought, while maybe not the best performance, I did have a lot of fun. Now I don't want you to get the idea that I am a crappy musician that makes a lot of mistakes, I just want you to understand that you can turn something negative into something positive. Also at the same time, I would never go around and brag about how good I thought I was or how good my band was. I would prefer to let my actions do the talking and let you make your own decisions.

Now a gig isn't the same as a game where there is a winner and a loser. However, even at some of my not so favorite gigs, I still enjoy the interactions created by a group of guys (or gals) that are putting on a performance (or even during rehearsal). I equate this to enjoying the game wether you win or lose. You can't win all the time so you might as well enjoy the experience.

I think you are putting too much energy into focusing on the problem and need to just relax and have fun. Don't just put "Remember to Command Casual!" on your signature without really thinking about what it means and living it. To be honest after reading this thread, I don't know if I'd want to play you because I'd be worried about how you rated me based on your comments about other players.

I do try that and I feel I am making progress. I had 2 games today alone that were fun! They were crazy, had jokes, and were all around fun. That is me playing to play. Something I am learning

You are right, it takes time and is not easy but it can be learned.

What I dont get is people think I am bragging when I say I am a good Armada player. . . that makes no sense to me really. Its not a lie, people in my area rank me as in the top 3. Sure its pond versus ocean but it is not any less true. SO to me it is just what it is. I am not boasting about it or bragging about it, it is just fact to me. Sounds arrogant I think but that is how my mind works.

Many say to be humble and they dont understand that I actually am, and if I am not then I dont know when I am not. So confusing. .

Mate,

There are going to be things in life you excel at and some things you won't.

Mikael Hasselstein seems to be an older brother figure. He understands your predicament and like an older brother wants you to be the best you can be. I think he and a few people that you know to be like him will give you far more guidance and understanding. They know you'll have your good days and your bad, I think you would do better to accept their friendship and guidance and not worry too much about the rest of us Nameless Internet Folks.

I think he and other like him in your "support crew" will give you far better advice.

Listen to him.